Gestalt is Online

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

The fact that you can't afford the book has nothing to do with the price of the book; but your statement is coming off as if the book's over-priced for the market. There's a huge difference between "I can't afford it" and "it's over-priced." One statement is a reflection of you and the other statement is a reflection of the company.

 

For the size of the book and the size of the company the book is reasonably priced. No one at the company is trying to cheat anyone out of an extra $10.00 for the book. That's just what it costs to print in small runs. The fact that you want the book but can't afford it doesn't mean you should disparage the material [and that's what you did by criticizing the price and making statement about how poorly you think it will sell based on price] just because you can't get it. It's like saying that you want a Lexus but can't afford a Lexus so you go around telling people Lexus won't sell well because you can't afford it.

 

I'm sorry your financial situation doesn't allow you to buy the book. Perhaps that will change in the future; or you'll take advantage of some OFGS [there are more of them then just FRPGames]. Otherwise I'd suggest you buy the pdf. It's time for Hero players to come out of the "I hate pdfs" closet anyway.

No... not true. For one... I don't want a Lexus.

 

Okay, I am not just making my decision based on my financial situation, but as a consumer, and as a retailer.

 

I would be very unlikely to sell Gestalt in my store, in this market, at that pricetag. One look at the price... and I don't care how flashy it looks, they won't even look inside the cover.

 

I'm basing this not only on HERO, but also from a comparison to other companies products as well. It's just not in line with similar products from other companies.

 

Regardless, people will continue to buy d20 products because of the pricing, as well as the "product recognition factor." D&D is iconic in stature. If you want to compete for those dollars, you have to peak the gamers interest by giving them a reason to look elsewhere.

 

It's just that simple. In retail, you have to consider these factors:

1. Price
   
2. Marketability of product
   
3. Need for product
   
4. Resale potential of product (based on 1, 2 & 3)

That $10 will get people to steer right past Gestalt, and grab the latest D&D book. I've watched this time and time again.

 

Price is a huge determining factor, and if your consumers feel that they are getting a better "bang for the buck"... that's where they will go.

[MitchellS]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I would be very unlikely to sell Gestalt in my store, in this market, at that pricetag. One look at the price... and I don't care how flashy it looks, they won't even look inside the cover.

 

I'm basing this not only on HERO, but also from a comparison to other companies products as well. It's just not in line with similar products from other companies.

It's obvious you're not in the book-trade retail. All you need to do is look around at some of the other books from the industry. Take a look at The World's Largest Dungeon, The World's Largest City, Ptolus, etc. There are rpg books in the $100.00 category that sell quite well. Take a look at Paizo's new Pathfinder line: $20.00 a month for 64 pages and requires 6 books per series. That's $120.00 per series. So obviously a $50.00 book is not outside of the consumer's price range.

 

What you're statement is really saying is "I can't afford to pay $50.00 so I think the book is overpriced; and because I can't pay it I don't think anyone else can pay it either." It's quite clear that you're taking this somewhat personally and assuming because you can't afford to easily spend $50.00 that no one else can. There are a lot of gamers who buy $50.00+ books all the time; you're just not one of them.

 

Personally, I've already bought the pdf and plan on buying the full color print version when it's available. On top of that I plan on buying it all over again when the M&M version become available later in the year. I'll have over $200.00 invested in the material when it's all done.

[OddHat]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

Speaking as a moderator this thread is getting too personal. Keep things friendly and respectful, eh?

 

Telling other posters what you believe they are "really" thinking or saying tends to piss people off.

[death tribble]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I have the PDF.

 

I am happy.

 

And if anyone has a problem with that I'm waiting outside in the parking lot to duff you over.

Dude.

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

It's obvious you're not in the book-trade retail. All you need to do is look around at some of the other books from the industry. Take a look at The World's Largest Dungeon' date=' The World's Largest City, Ptolus, etc. There are rpg books in the $100.00 category that sell quite well. Take a look at Paizo's new Pathfinder line: $20.00 a month for 64 pages and requires 6 books per series. That's $120.00 per series. So obviously a $50.00 book is not outside of the consumer's price range.[/quote']

 

Speaking as an ex-RPG* retailer, just because it sells well overall doesn't mean that it sells in particular areas. We couldn't move our WLD for over a year, until it was marked down. We found by doing data analysis of our sales that $40.00 was the breakpoint - if it was under $40, it sold well, if it was over that, it sat, until someone with a specific reason bought it, which often meant it sitting for months.

We ended up only doing special orders for things over $40 bucks because of that.

 

 

* Ex in that I left the job for something better.

 

 

And enough of the cost of thigns - back to the drooling anticipation / gloating of the waiting for/ having got the book.

I'm willing to wait for the hardcopy, and don't care for color, so I sould be getting mine fairly soon. Waiting a couple more weeks, after as long as I have wanted to get this isn't a big deal.

[MisterBaldy]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

Speaking as a moderator this thread is getting too personal. Keep things friendly and respectful, eh?

 

Telling other posters what you believe they are "really" thinking or saying tends to piss people off.

Thank you Oddhat.

 

MitchellS was indeed getting me "hot under the collar". Look MitchellS, you can agree, disagree or have no opinion at all about my statements... that's your right as a participant. Just don't profess to tell me what I am "feeling/thinking"... I'll do that for myself.

 

Look, in comparison to what I have priced out there, and what I am watching the in the market, I feel it is overpriced. I have the right as a consumer to make that decision... It's my money that I am going to spend after all. I also have the right as a consumer to make my comparisons how I wish to. I choose to base my decisions on other products of the HERO/DOJ line. After all, Gestalt is a book that is being done for the HERO System, so I'll base my decision on those products.

 

So, based on the price of $49.95 for the hard print copy of Gestalt... I'll pass for now, and I'll just continue to purchase those items I really want from the HERO/DOJ catalog. If I find it cheaper somewhere, and within the price range I consider acceptable... then I'll probably purchase Gestalt.

 

For now though, the $49.95 pricetag is steering me away, and I'll make my purchases from HERO.

[Sketchpad]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I know that I'm looking forward to getting a copy

[Mephron]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I have a copy! It is interesting and cool! I am very pleased with it.

 

 

...even if my name was misspelled by the author when he signed it.

[Half Baked]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I've purchased it and have been very impressed with it so far:)

[Checkmate]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I have the PDF.

 

I am happy.

 

And if anyone has a problem with that I'm waiting outside in the parking lot to duff you over.

Dude.

"Duff you over"? Who talks like that?

 

Maybe I'm confused, but I thought I saw Gestalt for sale for MM already? I was going to buy the book for Hero (I don't play MM) then I saw the full color one, almost bought it before I realized it was for MM, then decided to wait for the full color Hero one...All this was a couple months ago...Am I thinking about a different book?

[GestaltBennie]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I've returned from GC (and dog tired)

 

I'm glad people have liked the book. More than glad, actually. As I mentioned earlier, the price issue is a personal thing and should be respected.

 

However, to present a data point, both Blackwyrm and I would be losing money at a $40 price point. Using WOTC, who can afford lower rates by printing in bulk, as a yardstick, is a good way to tell small companies not to take a risk on something big, and I don't think that's a good thing for the hobby.

 

I think you miss out on a lot of life's charms when you make the dollar sign your sole benchmark… however, necessities are necessities and no book is worth a diet of ramen noodles or mac and cheese . At Gen Con, I picked up "Steal Away Jordan", a Forge game where you play a slave in the 18th and 19th Century. It's 48 pages and digest sized with archived B&W photo art. I paid $20. I don't feel ripped off; it's a unique concept, charmingly presented. I'm really happy to have it, but I could understand why a lot of people would pass on it. My $20 value isn't everyone else's, and that's okay.

 

The market will decide whether Gestalt is economically feasible. That die's been cast, but I knew the risk I was taking when I put it together. At present, I can only support those who've bought it and hope the book has $50 worth of coolness between its pages for those who are willing to make the investment.

 

Oh, and I hope to have the M&M version out by late October. Or however long it takes to recover from the train ride.

[gamerz123]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I've returned from GC (and dog tired)

 

I'm glad people have liked the book. More than glad, actually. As I mentioned earlier, the price issue is a personal thing and should be respected.

 

I think you miss out on a lot of life's charms when you make the dollar sign your sole benchmark… however, necessities are necessities and no book is worth a diet of ramen noodles or mac and cheese . At Gen Con, I picked up "Steal Away Jordan", a Forge game where you play a slave in the 18th and 19th Century. It's 48 pages and digest sized with archived B&W photo art. I paid $20. I don't feel ripped off; it's a unique concept, charmingly presented. I'm really happy to have it, but I could understand why a lot of people would pass on it. My $20 value isn't everyone else's, and that's okay.

 

Hey Scott!

 

Glad to hear the train trip went smoothly (My flights went smoothly, but as always some folk ended up playing "where was my connector changed to?" roulette at the airport.)

 

GenCon was a great show and I've got some freelance work that's taking up most of my time at the moment. I've managed to give a few small chunks of Gestalt a full read... WOW.. there is a ton of some really amazing stuff in there.

 

Steal Away Jordan was also my IPR purchase at the show. I find the historical perspective amazing and really hits home to someone used to 'standard' roleplaying situations. How many games do you roleplay a character that starts out with the "+5 vorpal sword" constantly about to come down on his neck? As you said, it isn't everyone's cup of tea, but that's one of the greatest things about this industry and human beings in general.

 

Also picked up a couple of DOJ books, but you probably guessed that

[death tribble]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I have a question regarding the Blood Red King. Where did the idea for that come from ?

Worldmaker who used to post here had a character with the same name, a similar costume style and a similar modus operandi. Though not the same. I wonder that the two have a common origin but would like to know more.

[OddHat]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

Gestalt is, at one and the same time, a fantastic Setting, Allies, and Enemies book. The setting itself is a firm step away from comic book homage but still leaves room for costumed heroes and villains, with space available for ordinary people with extraordinary powers. Additionally, it provides a model for balancing Dex, SPD, Attacks and Defenses at different starting point levels, pre-designed powers and power frameworks to speed character creation, plot seeds, a sample adventure, and sage GMing advice with concrete examples from a long running campaign. It tops it all off with very high quality art.

 

I'll be posting a review when I can, but I'm serious when I say that this is one of the best books ever released for Champions.

 

I'd have willingly paid a lot more than $50.

[GestaltBennie]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I have a question regarding the Blood Red King. Where did the idea for that come from ?

Worldmaker who used to post here had a character with the same name, a similar costume style and a similar modus operandi. Though not the same. I wonder that the two have a common origin but would like to know more.

 

The Blood Ring King was originally mine; I know of one website that adapted him after the Gestalt files were posted on Red October, but I'm not sure if they were Worldmaker's. The name itself is probably inspired by Blood Red, one of the two animal followers of a character played by the late Elizabeth Wolcott (the other was named Bone White, and yes, the Bone White Queen would also be a cool villain name) in a Champs campaign run by Wayne Shaw in 1991/1992.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

Speaking as a moderator this thread is getting too personal. Keep things friendly and respectful, eh?

 

Telling other posters what you believe they are "really" thinking or saying tends to piss people off.

You only think that.

*waves hand in a dismissive manner**

 

 

 

 

 

 

*okay, effete.

[death tribble]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I have been giving Gestalt a closer read and thinking what does this remind me of. Then it hit me.

Strike Force. This is how I felt when I read Strike Force.

And so it will become one of the precious things. Like my copy of Strike Force or Rappan Athuk Reloaded.

Thanks to Gestalt Bennie for this piece of work.

[Balabanto]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I kinda liked Rappan Athuk reloaded too, but not nearly as much as this.

 

I'm waiting for the color version on Lulu. The art was so awesome that I saw the PDF and said "No Black and White on this one for me." Yes, I could have taken a black and white copy for nothing, but that copy could be sold to someone who would then give money to Scott and Dave.

 

Plus, I'm the biggest advocate of color superhero supplements, so I have to put my money where my mouth is.

[death tribble]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

My PDF copy is in colour. And I got that from Blackwyrm

[Susano]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I'm 210 pages in and loving it.

 

I'll also admit, the level of detail and the like has made me look closely at what I've put and what I will be putting into Kazei 5 2.0.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

The Blood Red King was originally mine; I know of one website that adapted him after the Gestalt files were posted on Red October' date=' but I'm not sure if they were Worldmaker's. The name itself is probably inspired by Blood Red, one of the two animal followers of a character played by the late Elizabeth Wolcott (the other was named Bone White, and yes, the Bone White Queen would also be a cool villain name) in a Champs campaign run by Wayne Shaw in 1991/1992.[/quote']

 

Oooh... the Blood Red King and the Bone White Queen! That's a pairing of names I have to do something with.

[SAVeira]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I have been giving Gestalt a closer read and thinking what does this remind me of. Then it hit me.

Strike Force. This is how I felt when I read Strike Force.

And so it will become one of the precious things. Like my copy of Strike Force or Rappan Athuk Reloaded.

Thanks to Gestalt Bennie for this piece of work.

 

I believe that the reason that both Gestalt and Strike Force are so good is that their are about real campaigns. In both cases, you have the Game Masters writing detail information about campaigns they have spent years working on. It gives the works a sense of being alive somehow.

[transmetahuman]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

I kinda liked Rappan Athuk reloaded too, but not nearly as much as this.

 

I'm waiting for the color version on Lulu. The art was so awesome that I saw the PDF and said "No Black and White on this one for me." Yes, I could have taken a black and white copy for nothing, but that copy could be sold to someone who would then give money to Scott and Dave.

 

Plus, I'm the biggest advocate of color superhero supplements, so I have to put my money where my mouth is.

Wait... So, is the version that will be sold from the Blackwyrm site and stores going to be black and white, and we have to go to Lulu for a color print of the .pdf?

 

Or is it just comp copies that were in B&W?

[mattingly]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

The standard print version available through stores and on teh BlackWyrm site will be black and white. The special color edition will only be available from Lulu (linked from the BlackWyrm site once it's available).

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Gestalt is Online

 

The standard print version available through stores and on teh BlackWyrm site will be black and white. The special color edition will only be available from Lulu (linked from the BlackWyrm site once it's available).

 

Do we have a rough date for the B&W book yet? Getting this close the wait is killing me.