Edsel Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 I have been loving my copy of Fantasy Hero. There is absolutely a massive amount of information, definately worth the price. However, I am worried about the spine of this thing. Its a huge book for a paperback. Hardback would have been nice but I am sure economic realities precluded that happening. I kind of wished they'd broken this thing into two volumns though. Am I the only one who finds the size to be a little akward? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherSkip Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Actually if you are worried about the binding there are several options first of which is your local kinko's/copy store simply ask them to remove the current binding and replace with a spiral binding, I have done this with my 1AD&D DMG and UA together in one volume and original (my own ) laminated artwork. Though not as spffy as some others it still is a great deal! Spiral binding also has the wonderful option of making your books lay flat. You can also get the cardboard backing placed on the inside of the front cover (probably after copying any information therin onto a separate sheet if necessary....) and lamaination also giving you a very durable book. Im waiting for damaged products to become availible to do that to some of my books and as gifts to friends..... having said that, these books are better made than SR or ED stuff and Rifts so far so good. i have known people to just rip the pages out of new books and place them in binders because teh books fell apart that fast so far my UMA which has been lent out quite a bit is no where near needing such treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 I had a similar thought, in fact when I ordered mine I also got USPD figuring that it would be a good resource for magic until the Grimore comes out. When I picked up my books I initially thought FH was FH and the USPD until the guy at the store also grabbed the USPD off the shelf and put it on the counter as well. USPD is no small book either. I haven't had any problems with the bindings to any of the other HERO books, SH and TUV are pretty big, but I am a little worried about FH, I can just picture it splitting down the middle. Just out of curiosity I put it down next to 4th ed FH and the 2 FH companions and 5th FH is still larger. I wonder if DoJ did any binding tests on FH like they did with HERO 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austenandrews Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 You're not alone. I have conflicting feelings about the size of the book. On the one hand it's nice to have a lot of generic material as a launching point for game ideas. FH definitely covers an impressive number of details. On the other hand the 5E book is huge by itself, and hauling both books to a game is no small burden. It's not that I mind large books if they're useful, but easily half of FH is background world-building type material, which is not really usable during game play. Then there's the fact that FH has no monster writeups (buy The Bestiary!), no vehicle rules or writeups (buy The Ultimate Vehicle!), only two martial arts packages (buy The Ultimate Martial Artist! ... how many books am I supposed to haul to each game?), but it does have two pages explaining that fantasy worlds have forests, mountains and rivers. I dunno, I guess I feel like the book would have benefited from either (a) some judicious editing to cut down the page count, or ( a better cross-section of Hero gaming material. In the end, and granted that I haven't read the whole thing yet, I feel that FH is an impressive writing feat and seems to be a terrific GM resource, but as a session-to-session gaming reference, the size-v.s.-useful-content ratio is not that great. Maybe splitting it into two books would have been a good idea. -AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 I wonder if DoJ did any binding tests on FH like they did with HERO 5. We did not, but we specifically checked with the printer on this issue, and were assured that they could perfect-bind softcover books of up to 800 pages without creating any binding problems. They could go as high as 1,200 pages, in fact, but above 800 they couldn't offer assurances that the binding would hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 I guess you can always make photocopies. Shrink the pages so you can fit 2 pages in 1 sheet of paper. Then you cover it with a transparent page protector and put it in a 3-ring binder. Just do this with the pages you really need. That should save some space. I know someone who did that. No copyright infringement meant; just lightening the load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Funny you should mention that: the guy at the game store actually told me that a large part of the FH shipment had to be recalled because the book's size caused it to be damaged. I then walked down the street (it was in San Francisco) and asked the Prez about it. Rest assured, the game store guy was smoking something (a phrase I would not normally use, but it *is* how the fellow described the DOJ crew, along with "They must be new at this"). Sorry, it just seemed funny and I wanted to share. I will never understand why game stores don't have the same level of quality customer service as, say, Fry's Electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkdguy Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 You weren't talking about Gamescape, were you? 'Cause the guys there were acting wackier than usual yesterday. Okay, everyone who goes there (myself included) is wacky on any given day, but yesterday seemed a little stranger than most. Another time I was there, tow girls came in to see what their boyfriends were up to. They left looking like they landed on an alien world. As one of the girls put it, "very educational!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Originally posted by tkdguy You weren't talking about Gamescape, were you? That's the place. I was surprised. I mean, honestly, a bookstore badmouthing the publisher is bad enough (I can see reasons for it, such as having a bunch of irate customers what can't get their stuff). But badmouthing them without having verified facts is simply unprofessional, and can easily lose you sales. I guess we Hero Faithful don't rate somehow... I might just go back there for the next book, if that was just the end of an off week, though. It's easier to reach than other gaming stores in the area. Well, except for Scenario, but they are generally a month behind on Hero books, which is also unacceptable, and don't take orders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Originally posted by Steve Long We did not, but we specifically checked with the printer on this issue, and were assured that they could perfect-bind softcover books of up to 800 pages without creating any binding problems. They could go as high as 1,200 pages, in fact, but above 800 they couldn't offer assurances that the binding would hold. Ah, wonderful! Does that mean I can start on my 600,000 word manuscript for The Ultimate Base? (Okay, you can stop laughing now....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Long Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 the guy at the game store actually told me that a large part of the FH shipment had to be recalled because the book's size caused it to be damaged. As you've already learned, this is utter hogwash. It's most likely something a distributor concocted to explain why he didn't have the book in stock, or that a game store employee concocted because he didn't want to be bothered doing his job (or wanted to cover the fact he didn't know what you were asking about). Game stores often fail to give the same level of customer service as Fry's because Fry's is planned and run as a business. Far too many game stores are just extensions of some guy's hobby created primarily so he can get his game stuff at wholesale prices. But when you do come across a professionally-run game store, you'll be amazed at how cool they are. The good game retailers, as few and far between as they sometimes are, are really great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Steve, I couldn't agree with you more. A good game retailer is great to deal with. Here in Portland, we have a game store called Bridgetown Hobbies. Shortly before the arrival of FREd, some of us went in and began asking them to order it. The employees began regularly checking the Hero games site, and do an excellent job keeping up with what is happening with Hero Games (in addition to keeping informed about WoTC and others). When people have a question about a book or other product, they offer to call their distributor and find out for them on the spot. If they don't know something, they don't feel a need to make something up... they try to find out (usually within minutes, but when they needed to do some checking around, they promised to call me back... and actually did). They are a credit to the industry, and make the extra drive worth it. Wow.. this sounds like a commercial. lol... I have dealt with game stores that carried games as an afterthought, or were ran by people that thought it would be neat to have a store more than really learning the business side of things. It is good to find one that is ran like it should. Polaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Fry's good service!? Originally posted by GamePhil Sorry, it just seemed funny and I wanted to share. I will never understand why game stores don't have the same level of quality customer service as, say, Fry's Electronics. I don't want to defend Gamescape, since the Palo Alto store always creeped me out, but seeing the wish for Customer Service as good as Fry's laughable. Back in 1989 their service was good, but I think they've diluted that level of service amongst aLL thier stores. Though if you want to check on the reliability of a certain computer part, check what percentage of the boxes have been labeled returned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadmaster Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Originally posted by austenandrews You're not alone. I have conflicting feelings about the size of the book. On the one hand it's nice to have a lot of generic material as a launching point for game ideas. FH definitely covers an impressive number of details. On the other hand the 5E book is huge by itself, and hauling both books to a game is no small burden. It's not that I mind large books if they're useful, but easily half of FH is background world-building type material, which is not really usable during game play. Then there's the fact that FH has no monster writeups (buy The Bestiary!), no vehicle rules or writeups (buy The Ultimate Vehicle!), only two martial arts packages (buy The Ultimate Martial Artist! ... how many books am I supposed to haul to each game?), but it does have two pages explaining that fantasy worlds have forests, mountains and rivers. I dunno, I guess I feel like the book would have benefited from either (a) some judicious editing to cut down the page count, or ( a better cross-section of Hero gaming material. In the end, and granted that I haven't read the whole thing yet, I feel that FH is an impressive writing feat and seems to be a terrific GM resource, but as a session-to-session gaming reference, the size-v.s.-useful-content ratio is not that great. Maybe splitting it into two books would have been a good idea. -AA Reading over some of the messages in this thread it almost looks like we're complaining about the amount of material HERO is putting out, but I know what you mean, If you were going to a con and planning to play in a few differant genres, I'm pretty sure you would need a hand cart to get around. On the plus side I built a new bookcase yesterday because my current one was overflowing (stacks of book piling up on the floor, on top of other books and stacked on top of the bookcase). The HERO products I've bought since DoJ took over easily matches all the stuff HERO put out before, at least in overall thickness, almost every book that is a remake of an old book is at least twice as thick. Nice job DoJ. Now how about selling an official HERO hover cart so we can get this stuff to our games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Re: Fry's good service!? Originally posted by lemming I don't want to defend Gamescape, since the Palo Alto store always creeped me out, but seeing the wish for Customer Service as good as Fry's laughable. No, my wish for customer service as good as Fry's is not laughable. It is tragic. There is a difference, one which it seems you failed to appreciate. My fault. I forget that subtle irony is often hard to see in text. Regardless of how bad they can be sometimes, my experiences with them have been better on a strict percentage basis than my experiences at gaming stores. And they have a lot more to deal with, both as far as product and customers are concerned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dauntless Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 You know, that was my immediate first impression too. I actually would have been willing to pay 45$ for this thing if it came in a hard back edition. I'm almost positive the spine on this is going to give way within a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Re: Re: Fry's good service!? Originally posted by GamePhil No, my wish for customer service as good as Fry's is not laughable. It is tragic. There is a difference, one which it seems you failed to appreciate. My fault. I forget that subtle irony is often hard to see in text. It was more Steve's follow-up which made me laugh. I guess I never expect service at most game stores, but get bad service pushed in my face at Fry's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Fry's good service!? Originally posted by lemming It was more Steve's follow-up which made me laugh. I guess I never expect service at most game stores, but get bad service pushed in my face at Fry's. Eh, Steve's in North Carolina, do they even have Fry's there? Or perhaps they're better out there than they are here, outside of "God's Country", as he likes to put it. Quite possible: you never know when one of your clients will be God checking up on you... Sorry, Steve, I do believe I have inadvertently misled you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Fry's good service!? Originally posted by lemming It was more Steve's follow-up which made me laugh. I guess I never expect service at most game stores, but get bad service pushed in my face at Fry's. This is one part I find odd; I've visited the Fry's in Wilsonville, Oregon several times and never found anything to complain about. Yet there's even a website (I don't have the URL on me anywhere) devoted to the company's allegedly bad customer service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Re: Fry's good service!? Originally posted by BobGreenwade This is one part I find odd; I've visited the Fry's in Wilsonville, Oregon several times and never found anything to complain about. Yet there's even a website (I don't have the URL on me anywhere) devoted to the company's allegedly bad customer service. Actually, the Wilsonville store isn't too bad as Fry's go. The worst one in my experience has been the Western Themed one in Palo Alto. I used to go there to pick up components for a sysadmin job I had. I went to the original Fry's not long after they had opened after the brothers got their dad to loan them some money. (He owned a grocery chain called Fry's) At that point the people they had, knew their stuff. They hadn't started going with the themes and they only sold Computers, Shampoo & other Bath products, Junk Food, and Porn. You could go in, ask for a particular part, they might suggest a good alternative, and you'd leave a happy customer. Then they got bigger and started hiring people who didn't know very much. That's when the problems began. They're still not a horrible place to shop and they're often the cheapest spot. Just don't buy items in a returned box or happen to have a lot of returned friends... Fry's outside of California are in Arizona, Nevada, Oregon and Texas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mad GM Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Binding My phonebook lasts a year. I'm willing to wait and see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 I have now seen FH in person and will refer to it as the FHonebook from now on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaris Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 I used to work at Fry's in Wilsonville, Oregon. I think our customer service actually was quite good (not that all employees were good at it, but as a store we had a good customer service policy that most of us followed quite well). Obviously, I couldn't say how well any other store did their customer service. Polaris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nato Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Wow, I just saw this book at my local gaming store. Huge! Too bad it was shrinkwrapped and I can't take a look at it. (Did I mention how much I hate that All Star Games in Diamond Bar, California shrink wraps everything but D&D products!!!) Anyway, I didn't pick it up because I get comp copies for my artwork - but I can't wait to get it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catseye Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Originally posted by Steve Long As you've already learned, this is utter hogwash. It's most likely something a distributor concocted to explain why he didn't have the book in stock, or that a game store employee concocted because he didn't want to be bothered doing his job (or wanted to cover the fact he didn't know what you were asking about). Game stores often fail to give the same level of customer service as Fry's because Fry's is planned and run as a business. . Um, not being from around here I think Steve missed the gag. In the SF bay area Fry's is notorious for bad service. (Try Googling for "I Hate Frys" Steve, there are whoel web pages devoted to the subject.) Suggesting that someone needs to work to get to Fry's level of service, at least around here, is a true insult. Catseye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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