Superman

[casualplayer]

Re: Superman

 

You're just trying to make me look inefficient

Well Done.

 

You're not so much inefficient as gratuitous.

 

These are very nice, Cassandra. Do you have a preference for which write-up I rep?

[nexus]

Re: Superman

 

Power Girls "Cleveage Window" was the major reason she never needed to chain her hair color like Supergirl did to maintain her secret identity.

 

Wait... she has hair?

[Cassandra]

Re: Superman

 

Please use whatever write up you like, Casual Player.

 

You notice that Wonder Woman now hides her cleveage.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Superman

 

I guess I'll be the first dissenter.

 

The builds are nice on their own but would require that every other character (player & npc) in a game be downgraded to match the lower power standard. That seems like an awful lot of work for very little benefit. None of the characters even match up to the example character 'Firebrand' on page 14 of 5er and that character is by no means an efficient build.

[Cassandra]

Re: Superman

 

My goal of creating 350 point characters is just to provide them for those who play lower level campaigns, and for the challenge of doing so. Use them as you will.

[casualplayer]

Re: Superman

 

You notice that Wonder Woman now hides her cleveage.

 

She recently pulled an Atom-sized chair out of that cleavage, not that I'm complaining. I've never envied a chair so much.

 

I was teasing Enforcer84 about his somewhat generous nature with character points. He's like the drunken sailor of character construction.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Superman

 

My goal of creating 350 point characters is just to provide them for those who play lower level campaigns' date=' and for the challenge of doing so. Use them as you will.[/quote']

 

 

Well being one of those players/GMs I appreciate the effort.

[assault]

Re: Superman

 

The power level is fine. They're not all that much weaker than crunchy optimised characters, and have most of the stuff their models have. As long as all the PCs are built along similar lines, things will be OK. The NPCs are the GM's responsibility, and he or she will be monitoring their relative strength compared to the PCs anyway.

 

Of course, calling a 350 point character "Superman" generally implies that there are very few other 350 point characters around. Otherwise, he's just Yet-Another-350-Point-Man. In a world built according to 250 point guidelines he would be relatively tough. The biggest difficulty would be making sure the other PCs balance correctly against him, since they would probably have to be built on the same points as him, and some of them might potentially be more "efficient" builds.

[Comic]

Re: Superman

 

I guess I'll be the first dissenter.

 

The builds are nice on their own but would require that every other character (player & npc) in a game be downgraded to match the lower power standard. That seems like an awful lot of work for very little benefit. None of the characters even match up to the example character 'Firebrand' on page 14 of 5er and that character is by no means an efficient build.

 

Firebrand vs. Superman:

 

Superman's advantages in this fight:

Firebrand 11- Rep as a murderous supervillain; his obvious powers and vulnerabilities are widely known and fair game; Superman's PsyL fights for Truth, Justice and the American Way directly boosted.

Firebrand CvK and Reluctant to use powers, Superman's demonstrable goodness and how much he obviously suffers from Firebrand's KA directly conflict with these PsyL's.

Superman 10d6 EB (Cold) vs Firebrand x2 Stun/Body from Ice/Cold on 30 ED. Average 40 Stun past DEF

Superman megascale flight vs Firebrand 20" Flight.

Superman +1 PER, Telescopic senses, N-ray vision vs IR vision for Firebrand.

Superman 60 STR for lifting AoE objects to throw/drop on/ pummel Firebrand with.

Superman 15 REC vs Firebrand 8 REC

Superman 60 STUN vs Firebrand 30 STUN.

 

Firebrand's advantages over Superman:

OCV 11 vs DCV 7.

12d6 vs DEF 18.

3d6 KA vs DEF 9

SPD 6/Dex 23 vs SPD 5/Dex 20.

Stealth, Power Tricks, Tactics vs a bumpkin from Kansas.

 

On pure mechanics, this plainly goes to Firebrand... IF Firebrand's player is ignoring his psych. lims., and Superman's player is playing what should be the smarter Superman like a video game, instead of using his superior senses, maneuverability, and ruggedness.

 

On dramatic sense, Firebrand is easily visible to Superman from miles away, and only needs to be tagged by one of those icy blasts of breath or two of those 12d6 punches (perhaps delivered through a 1" AoE object) to be at GM's discretion, while Superman is always able to get out of range of Firebrand's attacks within three seconds, is unlikely to be Stunned by any single attack Firebrand dishes out unless Firebrand resorts uncharacteristically to his Fiery Blade, and otherwise can recover from the Fiery Arrows in six seconds.

 

So.. As 350 point characters go, I'd say these two could have ferocious, epic-scale fights that threaten to destroy cities, and Superman would have the upper hand in the end, probably after many hard knocks.. Which sounds about like how Superman stories generally go.

 

Now if the character were 'Supersuperheroman', who was more super than other superheroes, I'd side with the dissent.

 

As it is, I like the straightforward, elegant build of the OP, and can see it being quite effective in play, without bogging down a GM with rules questions.

 

That said, N-Ray vision.. often has drawbacks for GMs.

[Corven_Ren]

Re: Superman

 

Hi Cassandra, I've been looking over all of your write-ups and must say you are quite good at cramming possible behemoth characters into 350 points. Most everyone has their own conversions of established characters. Even me heres a few links just in case you interested.

 

Hulk- http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1300865&postcount=103

 

Green Arrow http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1295897&postcount=102

 

Thing http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1293384&postcount=97

 

Spidey http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1264811&postcount=95

 

Iron Maiden http://www.herogames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1355746&postcount=106

 

These are all from my custom Champions universe which is an anagalm of DC, Marvel, Champions and my own material. A link to the timeline as written is in my sig. But great job on all of you write ups

[OddHat]

Re: Superman

 

I love the idea of a 350 point Superman homage, and I've posted a few. This version isn't what I'd go for, but I could see it working well in a campaign scaled for it. Good work.

[Badger]

Re: Superman

 

Actually' date=' at one time or another, Superman has lifted the entire planet Earth ! Using the"expanded strength table" in "The Ultimate Brick", that puts his strength well above 200 in "Champions" terms. If a strength of "200" enables one to lift a "small asteroid" then i'd say his strength was a (conservative) 400 + ![/quote']

 

 

I think, several years ago, we had someone figure out the strength needed to lift Earth, and I think it was just under 400, (like 390 or something).

 

That thread occured I think when I hadnt been here long, so probably late 2003/early 2004. So, it was awhile.

[Maelstrom]

Re: Superman

 

What about the all-important cleavage window? It's absent from the Power Girl writeup!

 

Hmm . . . Linda Danvers . . . any relation to Carol?

[Kenn]

Re: Superman

 

What about the all-important cleavage window? It's absent from the Power Girl writeup!

 

Hmm . . . Linda Danvers . . . any relation to Carol?

 

You'd have to ask Gerry Conway...

[Lord Fyre]

Re: Superman

 

What about the all-important cleavage window? It's absent from the Power Girl writeup!

 

That would only matter if you wanted to give Power Girl a 5pt Distinctive Features for her High Comliness. It is not needed.

[Cassandra]

Re: Superman

 

I was thinking that the long time heroes, Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, would be 350 while most other heroes and villains would be 250.

[Lord Fyre]

Re: Superman

 

I was thinking that the long time heroes' date=' Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, would be 350 while most other heroes and villains would be 250.[/quote']

 

I might have gone in the other direction. Having the 350 being the "Starting" base for the character and then add some experience to reflect their time in the setting. (But not so much as to be gratuitous or to make the player's characters non-competative.)

 

This would allow some minor additions such as Batman's extra vehicles & batcave, etc.

 

(Were I running a DCU based campaign, that is how I would tend to use your excellent write ups.)

[Cassandra]

Re: Superman

 

Maybe all there experience could go for the Justice League Base, The vehicles, Paradise Island, Fortress of Solitude, and they're allies.

[Lord Fyre]

Re: Superman

 

Maybe all there experience could go for the Justice League Base' date=' The vehicles, Paradise Island, Fortress of Solitude, and they're allies.[/quote']

 

Indeed, most of it probibly should.

[Cassandra]

Superman (Update)

 

Superman

 

Clark Kent, Mild Mannered Reporter for a Great Metropolitan Newspaper

 

Val Char Cost

50 STR 40

18 DEX 24

25 CON 30

12 BODY 4

13 INT 3

11 EGO 2

20 PRE 10

16 COM 3

20 PD 10

15 ED 10

5 SPD 22

15 REC 0

50 END 0

50 STUN 0

Total Characteristics Cost: 158

 

Cost Skills

2 AK: Metropolis 11-

2 KS: Krypton 11-

1 FB: Press Pass

2 PS: Reporter 11-

Total Skills Cost: 7

 

Cost Powers

10 Damage Resistance 10 Points

50 Multipower (50 Points)

2 u) Armor +5 PD +5 ED/Knockback Resistance -2

2 u) EB 8d6, Variable Special Effects [Heat/Cold],

Concentrate DCV 3 (-1/4), 2x END (-1/2) [10 END]

1 u) ES: Hearing Perception +2/ES: Telescopic Hearing +2/

ES: Ultrasonic Hearing

1 u) ES: N-Ray Sight, Not through Lead/Gold/Force Fields

1 u) ES: Sight Perception +2/ES: Telescopic Sight +4

2 u) Flight 10" [2 END]

2 u) Flight 10km, Megascale (+1/4), 1/2 END (+1/4)

1 u) Healing: Regeneration 1 BODY/Turn

1 u) LS: Self Contained Breathing

1 u) Swimming +10"

9 LS: High Pressure/LS: High Radiation/LS: Intense Cold/

LS: Intense Heat/LS: Low Pressure/Vacuum

Total Powers Cost: 85

 

Total Cost: 250

 

150+ Disadvantages

5 DNPC: Lois Lane (Normal/Useful Skills) 8-

10 DNPC: Jimmy Olsen (Normal/Useful Skills/Unaware Secret ID)

5 Hunted: Brainiac (Less Powerful) 8-

5 Hunted: Lex Luthor (Less Powerful) 8-

20 PsyL: Code Against Killing (Common/Total)

20 PsyL: Fights for Truth, Justice, and the American Way

(Common/Total)

10 PsyL: Loves Lois Lane (Uncommon/Strong)

15 SocL: Secret Identity (Frequently/Major)

5 Suscept: Kryptonite, 1d6 STUN/Minute (Uncommon)

5 Vulnerability: Magic Attacks, 1 1/2x STUN (Uncommon)

Total Disadvantages Cost: 250

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: Superman

 

Showoff!

[assault]

Re: Superman

 

FWIW, I've got an incomplete 250 point version of the Golden Age Superman on my blog.

 

I've even filled out the Disads and Skills, so it's actually pretty close to complete now. It may however still contain errors, and there are distortions in the character caused by the point budget.

[Vondy]

Re: Superman

 

Actually' date=' at one time or another, Superman has lifted the entire planet Earth ! Using the"expanded strength table" in "The Ultimate Brick", that puts his strength well above 200 in "Champions" terms. If a strength of "200" enables one to lift a "small asteroid" then i'd say his strength was a (conservative) 400 + ![/quote']

 

Her Superman can lift 100t

 

Personally, for distilling the concept I think she did an excellent job.

 

Not every superman has to be able to lift the earth - or the sun.

[Vondy]

Re: Superman

 

I guess I'll be the first dissenter.

 

The builds are nice on their own but would require that every other character (player & npc) in a game be downgraded to match the lower power standard. That seems like an awful lot of work for very little benefit. None of the characters even match up to the example character 'Firebrand' on page 14 of 5er and that character is by no means an efficient build.

 

This assumes a lot:

 

1) That the builds aren't just "builds" - an excercise in distilling the essential concept.

2) that superman, batman et al must be built as uber-gods (not all of their incarnations are such).

3) that there are other characters they need to compete with - what if the players actually play *these* characters?

4) that the power level of the game needs to be scaled down - different games have different scales.

5) that what's printed in a champions book is relevant to someone not using said book.

 

Its very common to guage other people's builds against personal experience or one's personal campaign. Don't get me wrong - my superman weighed in at 1000+ points - but unless you know what the characters are for, how they will be used, and what style and power level of game the character will be used for you have to drop extraneous assumptions and take it on its own merits.

[Diamond_J]

Re: Superman

 

Actually' date=' at one time or another, Superman has lifted the entire planet Earth ! Using the"expanded strength table" in "The Ultimate Brick", that puts his strength well above 200 in "Champions" terms. If a strength of "200" enables one to lift a "small asteroid" then i'd say his strength was a (conservative) 400 + ![/quote']

 

At one point his mere sneeze was capable of blowing up the world. Because this was a lame power that made no sense they got rid of it. Officially as of the mid 90's DC is on record as stating that Sup's can lift approximately 8 billion pounds (135 STR HEROS)! While nowhere near what he was once cable of, realize the impact of his fist is equivalent to a small nuclear warhead...ouch.

 

Pre- Infinite earths Superman was unmanageable from a writing standpoint and they nerfed his powers to cope with that. This write up is good but I would argue that his ED & PD should at least be 25 or he'll have a hard time competing with other published bricks.

 

Nice work though.