No Horses For You

[Chris-M]

Over in the "We Loves Us Some Elves, Dwarves, and Orcs" thread, we've been talking about, among other things, how some GMs, wanting to make their fantasy worlds less stereotypical, will use original non-human races or put non-standard spins on the classic non-human races.

 

Something else you'll see when a GM or worldbuilder tries to go for a more original, exotic game setting is the replacement of horses as the standard steed of record with something else -- big lizards, flightless birds, giant cats or dogs -- you name it.

 

Personally, this has always been a huge pet peeve of mine -- quit goofing around and just give us our horses already! But then I realized that in the "Avatar: The Last Air Bender" TV series, there are no horses and a variety of other creatures serving as steeds, and it didn't bother me one bit. I guess because "Avatar" features a nicely-designed original Asian Fantasy setting that is already different enough from your standard faux-Medieval Europe fantasy setting that it wasn't jarring. Also, "Avatar" features normal animals that are all, or mostly, hybrids of our real-world animals -- poodle monkeys, badger moles, etc., so the lack of horses and the presence of other unusual steed options seems to fit right in. (As an interesting side note, there's one reference by Sokka to just plain "horses," although we never seen one -- we do, however, meet one regular, ol' bear -- which freaks the main characters out.)

 

Anyway, what are some examples of non-horse steeds that have been the norm in fantasy campaigns you've played in? Which ones did you like and which ones did you not like?

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: No Horses For You

 

Dogs --not in RPGs, but in literature. You have to feed them meat! Or at least milled grains. Think about your economy, please, worldbuilder. Even your landscape is going to look profoundly different.

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: No Horses For You

 

Talislanta is a setting where all the critters are mythical/fictional, and even all the humans seem to have pointed ears.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: No Horses For You

 

I was always partial to the phorusracoids, the extinct giant carnivorous flightless birds that look like huge ostriches with axe-shaped beaks. They look cool, and assuming they're trainable they'd make effective battle steeds. Last time I used them I added steel blade extensions to their wing-claws as part of their tack.

 

BTW in the classic Bard Games Atlantis: The Lost World RPG setting (recently updated by Morrigan Press as Atlantis: The Second Age), the dwarven nation of Punt (the modern island of Madagascar) used giant ostriches with steel heel-spurs as steeds. The Puntian dwarves were a cool variation in themselves, being black, beardless, and typically wearing dreadlocks.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: No Horses For You

 

Talislanta is a setting where all the critters are mythical/fictional' date=' and even all the humans seem to have pointed ears.[/quote']

 

IIRC the dominant Talisantan riding animals look like a cross between horse and lizard, and are sapient.

[Vulcan]

Re: No Horses For You

 

There's a short story somewhere that has the heroines riding giant rabbits...

 

Saberhagans' Complete Book of Swords had the riding beasts being feline. Basically tiger-sized, but with the coloration of house cats.

 

In a primitive world, cavemen might domesticate the larger raptor dinosaurs (Deinonycus would be about the right size), or perhaps some breed of cerotopsian (less maneuverability, more striking power). Or build a small fort/archery stand on top of an ankyliosaur.

 

For that matter, consider a lancer on a rhinocerous.

 

And the old D&D villians, the Drow, are sometimes described as having giant riding spiders. (Freaked one of my player out good when they showed up in my game. If I'd know he was that creeped out by spiders, I wouldn't have done it...)

[Fitz]

Re: No Horses For You

 

You know why people don't use carnivores as riding animals? Because they make terrible riding animals, that's why. You can get away with dogs as pack animals because they're... er, well, pack animals -- they'll accept a human being as pack leader, and are trainable. Get one big enough, you could probably ride it - if you could stay on. Horses and camels are herd animals, and can be dominated in a similar way. I seriously doubt you'd get the same sort of cooperation from a velociraptor; the only way you could expect to ride something like that without having to be constantly on guard would be if you could exert absolute mental and/or physical control over it.

 

Another thing to think about when replacing horses is the anatomy of the creature you're proposing. Even assuming you could control a Saberhagenesque riding tiger-beast enough that it wouldn't chow down on you at the first opportunity, the spine of all cats flexes enormously when it runs; good luck staying on if you're not actually tied to it. Horses may be passé, but their backs stay relatively horizontal when they're moving at speed, which is one reason why they've been our most successful mount.

 

Almost all of the mount replacements in games and literature have been chosen because they're cool, not because they'd actually be practical riding beasts.

[Ragnarok]

Re: No Horses For You

 

I've seen some interesting deviations from the standard horse. Nothing too outlandish like dinosaurs, though, they're more of the typical Tolkien-style variations. For example, some of the cave dwelling goblins in a previous campaign used spiders as a sort of all-terrain cavalry. Some of the more savage, barbaric humans in the Northern reaches used Dire wolves. The casualty rate for taming one was horrendous, though.

 

With that said, there are few steeds as trustworthy and timeless as a huge horse, like the Clydesdale's. If you're tired of your run-of-the-mill horse, just use something like this guy: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=x9jDXwEJpyE.

 

23 hands, 2800 pounds, and only 4 years old. Badass.

[Curufea]

Re: No Horses For You

 

We've only ever had horses, whether it was low or high fantasy.

[Vulcan]

Re: No Horses For You

 

You know why people don't use carnivores as riding animals?

 

They are prohibitively expensive to feed, among other things. Meat is not cheap, even in fantasy settings.

 

Because they make terrible riding animals, that's why. You can get away with dogs as pack animals because they're... er, well, pack animals -- they'll accept a human being as pack leader, and are trainable. Get one big enough, you could probably ride it - if you could stay on. Horses and camels are herd animals, and can be dominated in a similar way. I seriously doubt you'd get the same sort of cooperation from a velociraptor; the only way you could expect to ride something like that without having to be constantly on guard would be if you could exert absolute mental and/or physical control over it.

 

There is some palentological evidence that the raptors were pack animals as well, so...

 

Besides, a Velociraptor would make a terrible mount even for a halfling. They were about the same weight as a turkey, with a long tail. Sure, nose-to-tail length was about 6'. At the shoulder they were about 3' tall. Deinonycus would be a better choice, scale-wise. It stood about 6' at the shoulder, and roughly 10-12' overall length.

 

Another thing to think about when replacing horses is the anatomy of the creature you're proposing. Even assuming you could control a Saberhagenesque riding tiger-beast enough that it wouldn't chow down on you at the first opportunity, the spine of all cats flexes enormously when it runs; good luck staying on if you're not actually tied to it. Horses may be passé, but their backs stay relatively horizontal when they're moving at speed, which is one reason why they've been our most successful mount.

 

Almost all of the mount replacements in games and literature have been chosen because they're cool, not because they'd actually be practical riding beasts.

 

There is that. Of course, this is in the Fantasy HERO forum, a bit of handwaving is expected.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: No Horses For You

 

For my standard fantasy world pretty much everyone uses horse except some exotic lost world tribes who ride flightless birds. In planetary romance, which might arguably be SF or fantasy, anything goes!

[Shadowsoul]

Re: No Horses For You

 

I'm no expert but I believe that the largest raptor fossil ever found was the Utahraptor which was somewhere around the size of one of the Jurassic Park beasties. Still not good riding material for humans though.

 

In the War of the Powers series there are Dog Riders, Bear Riders and Giant Badger Riders, (that was one weird series). Dogs would seem to be the most practical of those three since they have a nicer temperament.

 

Sled-dogs have been used instead of horses in certain very cold areas so perhaps in sub-arctic conditions riding dogs would be ecologically justifiable.

 

Otherwise I assume they'd develop in a place where there was plenty of prey for the mounts to catch. Perhaps a nice big forest which horses would have more trouble traversing anyway, not that I'd expect much of any cavalry in heay woodland. Or a wide open plain filled with herd animals, although horses would love those conditions as well.

 

Horses are excellent mounts compared to most other mundane creatures so I would expect a good reason for them to not be in use. Assuming that they don't just 'not exist' then perhaps they are a sacred animal to humans and it would be blasphemous to enslave them for the menial work of carrying humans around.

 

Or perhaps this world features centaurs who for reasons of pride or practicality have made damn sure that the humans don't get to ride horses; either by attacking any human countries that try it or keeping control of the major herds. That's not a perfect solution but it would help to explain why humans went looking for different mounts.

[CTaylor]

Re: No Horses For You

 

I like the WOW approach: different cultures use different creatures. Some are more exotic and showy than logical (some are just retarded looking, like the ostrich things the blood elves ride), but they are interesting.

[Curufea]

Re: No Horses For You

 

Riding animals are only an issue if you make it an issue. Otherwise it's background flavouring that rarely affects play.

However, if you're adding realism, like mount personalities, care and feeding, sickness and mishap or other details - then it's worth noting what mounts are like.

 

But in general I believe most folk roleplay at a pulp melodrama level, they gloss over how to get from A to B and are more interested in killing things at B so they can buy things at A. Micromanaging is viewed as a waste of time that could be spent on violence.

[Maelstrom]

Re: No Horses For You

 

My first FH character rode a donkey. A donkey that had been sorcerously mutated by dragon blood. Eeesh.

 

Check out Randall Garrett's The Bronze of Eddarta and others for telepathic, intelligent, riding-cats. Fun stuff. I'd build it as a follower more than allow it as a purchase.

 

I like the WoW approach too.

[Doctor Agenda]

Re: No Horses For You

 

IIRC the dominant Talisantan riding animals look like a cross between horse and lizard' date=' and are sapient.[/quote']

 

Fortunately most humanoid Talislantans don't speak Equus...they gossip about their riders terribly.

[Vulcan]

Re: No Horses For You

 

I'm no expert but I believe that the largest raptor fossil ever found was the Utahraptor which was somewhere around the size of one of the Jurassic Park beasties. Still not good riding material for humans though.

 

Looking at some of the latest material (my aging textbooks are a bit dated), it seems that even Deinonychus would be a bit small, 11' long but only about 4' (ish) at the shoulder. Utah Raptor would indeed be a better fit at around 7' at the shoulder. Although they are significantly larger than the Jurrasic Park beasties at over 20' in length.

 

But feeding these beasts would be a pain in the wallet.

 

Note: In an earlier post, I mentioned that Velociraptor was about 6' long and 3' at the shoulder. These numbers are actually for the Troodon, a closely related species. Velociraptors were about half that size.

 

Not a good choice for a movie villian.

[Curufea]

Re: No Horses For You

 

You could also modify mounts to just look like dinosaurs.

Built like a horse internally, but having evolved a lizard skin instead of hide.

[Vanguard00]

Re: No Horses For You

 

Large horse-like rams were used in an old comic-fantasy series by Lionel Fenn ("Blood River Down" Ithink it was called). His, at least, while not necessarily sentient, was pretty darn smart.

 

I'm of the opinion that horses are fine in any world populated with "familiar" beasts such as birds, dogs, cats and fish. If you're going to come up with something instead of horses, make sure it has a place in the ecology. Make the horses slightly different, if you wish; make 'em like zebras, but bluish-grey in color. Or given them cloven hoofs. Or make them omnivorous pack (instead of herd) creatures. Don't just do away with them because you want something different.

 

That's not to say that some cultures didn't find large flightless birds more their style, or that some magic-based priesthoods have a rapport with oversized canines or felines, and so on.

 

Remember that fantasy is fun because of the differences in reality, but that reality-based ideas provide plenty of contrast. A real-world horse is fine, but it gives the very rare riding cat that much more oomph, or makes the lizard-riding folk of the savannas that much more strange.

 

Just sayin'...

[BobGreenwade]

Re: No Horses For You

 

In my fantasy games, I've seen at one time or another griffins, pegasi, triceratops, and (I kid you not) giant armadillos.

[Supreme Serpent]

Re: No Horses For You

 

One fantasy game I played in horses were the norm, but one area had wasteland barbarians that rode around on big spider-things. Didn't have too much interaction with them during the campaign.

[Sociotard]

Re: No Horses For You

 

Technically, lions are pack animals . . . (but I doubt they would work).

 

I'd say that using non-horses is less of a problem in Fantasy lit than using horses as if they were motorcycles. The characters ride to the inn, tie the horse to a post, go sleep, then return to untie the horse and ride away.

 

They left the packs and saddles tied on! Not to mention they failed to groom them, check their hooves, etc. I'm not PETA fan, but I'd give some of these knights a talking to if I caught them in the act.

 

For what it's worth, my favorite non-horses were the riding bunnies-on-stilts from The Dark Crystal.

[CTaylor]

Re: No Horses For You

 

I think those were more like bats than bunnies.

 

But you're right, I make a point of having characters treat their mounts well or they suffer. They have to have regular rests, food, shelter, they can't leave stuff on them (or it gets stolen), the mounts cost a fortune, and so on.

[Maur]

Re: No Horses For You

 

Most players I've played with don't abuse the animals, but no game time was wasted having the characters maintain them.

 

Players get to an inn, pay the fee for room and board and stable... stable boy does the work if players don't say otherwise...

 

Overland travel... no more than 8 hours a day to allow for setup and breakdown of camp (which includes dealing with aforementioned animals). Push them and they suffer the penalties that players would from a forced march...

 

This was all just assumed to have happened unless it was important to the story that an event occur and interrupt them.

[Vulcan]

Re: No Horses For You

 

Technically, lions are pack animals . . . (but I doubt they would work).

 

I'd say that using non-horses is less of a problem in Fantasy lit than using horses as if they were motorcycles. The characters ride to the inn, tie the horse to a post, go sleep, then return to untie the horse and ride away.

 

They left the packs and saddles tied on! Not to mention they failed to groom them, check their hooves, etc. I'm not PETA fan, but I'd give some of these knights a talking to if I caught them in the act.

 

For what it's worth, my favorite non-horses were the riding bunnies-on-stilts from The Dark Crystal.

 

Unless there's some in-game reason to deal with it, much of that sort of thing is 'assumed to be deat with' in my games. Part of the bedding down for the night procedures includes taking care of mounts (by the PC's or by stableboys), equipment maintenance, personal hygene, etc. It's just things the characters do, without needing to dwell on them excessively.