My first character (Speedster)

[Navar]

OK so please be kind as this is my first character. I may be one of many, but I am coming to these boards after being fed up with D&D 4 and finally “seeing the light.” I am going to be starting a standard Champions game 200 base point and 150 from Disadvantages. I have come up with the Speedster concept and I think I am going to run with it. Any help with any aspect of this character is appreciated. I have read the Hero book and Ultimate Speedster. Assume that I have unlimited funding, so if there is a book that I MUST buy then please point me in the right direction.

This origin and backstory I will write out later when I hammer out exactly what powers he has. Some of the things I would like him to be able to do are:

1. Run fast

2. Throw objects as his primary attack

3. (inspired by Project Superpowers’ “The Target”) Appear to be in multiple places at once to add to his defense and be able to attack multiple targets (though he won’t be melee attacking very often.)

4. (inspired by Bleach’s “Flash Step”) Appear invisible when moving quickly

5. Heal Quickly

6. Be immune or very resistant to toxins

This is the stat line I had in mind for him.

Val Char Base Cost Points

16 STR 10 x1 6

38 DEX 10 x3 84

18 CON 10 x2 16

14 BODY 10 x2 8

16 INT 10 x1 6

14 EGO 10 x2 8

12 PRE 10 x1 2

20 COM 10 x1/2 5

3 PD (STR/5) x1 0

4 ED (CON/5) x1 0

8 SPD 1+ (DEX/10) x10 32

15 REC (STR/5)+(CON/5) x2 16

48 END (CON x 2) x1/2 6

31 STUN BODY+(STR/2)+(CON/2) x1 0

Total Characteristics Cost = 189

How are these stats? Did I spend too much on them, and if so what should I cut back?

I was thinking these Skills

Skill Roll Cost

Acrobatics 17 3

Accurate Sprayfire NA 5

Rapid Autofire NA 5

Breakfall 17 3

CSL: 2 Ranged Attacks NA 3

CSL: 2 Ranged Attacks NA 3

Defense Maneuver IV NA 10

Seduction 13 7

Rapid Fire NA 5

Total Skill Cost = 44

For powers I was thinking of using an Elemental Control Powers Framework with the element in question being Speed. I use the logic that if he is drained of his speed powers that several of them will all cease to work. I am ok with some of them requiring a speedster trick roll to use/activate. I think Gestures: Restrainable (-1/4) might be appropriate to the two attacks The powers I have come up with so far are these.

Super-Running: Running +20”, x8 Noncombat. Total cost: 55 Points

Overdrive Running: Running +20” (40 Active Points); MegaScale (1” = 1 km, also applies to base 6” Running; +¼). Total Cost: 50 Points

Hyperthrowing: Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (blunt objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-1/2), Range Based On STR (-¼). Total Cost: 18

Deadly Hyperthrowing: RKA 2d6 (30 Active Points); OIF (sharp objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-1/2), Range Based On STR (-¼). Total Cost: 13

Dodging Bullets: +8 DCV (40 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-½). Total cost: 27 points.

Rapid Healing: Healing BODY 4d6 (Regeneration, 4 BODY per Turn), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Persistent (+½) (80 Active Points); Self Only (-½), Extra Time (1 Turn; -1¼). Total cost: 29 points.

Speed Reading (x1000). Total cost: 8 points.

Cosmetic Transform 2d6 (clothes into other/no clothes; heals back by changing or repairing clothes) (10 Active Points); Limited Target (clothes; -½), No Range (-0). Total cost: 7 points

Invisibility to Sight Group, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (30 Active Points); Only When Moving (-¼). Total cost:24 points.

And

Desolidification (affected by sonic-, vibration-, and air-based attacks). Total cost: 40 points.

Finally for disadvantages I was thinking

Overdrive

Competitive

Overconfident

Speedster Impatience

Accidental Change (may super run when moving)

Distinctive features (I would like to make it when I don’t spend End to prevent it I am blurry/unable to be understood when speaking without an Int roll (like Reverse flash)

Heavy Sleeper (when I am out after being sped up all day, I AM OUT)

The rest I will fill out as needed by the setting after dealing with the GM.

So I know this is TLDR, but what do you all think. PEACH.

[The Main Man]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Well, you might want to get HERO Designer v3 for starters.

 

The UNTIL Superpowers Database (USPD) I & II are highly recommended for Superhero games.

 

You do not really need Autofire Skills since you do not have any Autofire attacks.

 

Hyperthrowing is an easy Multipower.

 

Those are some of my initial thoughts but you seem to have a relative hang of it so far.

[Navar]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Thanks for the quick reply.

 

One thing I was espically looking for feedback on making the speed powers a multipower, and exactly how that would work. Multipowers are one of the areas I really don't "get" exactly. I was thinking elemental control: Speed.

[Marcus]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Talk to your GM, but it looks like you are depending entirely on your DCV to avoid damage. IE, you have no significant PD and ED.

 

While this seems thematically appropriate, for mechanical playability reasons you might consider buying some PD and ED via the combat luck or other similar routes.

 

The special effect might be 'you just grazed me' or 'I avoided the punch, but the shrapnel it kicked up did SOME damage', etc. Or consider the phenomenal resistance to heat (ED) required to run at ultra-high speeds (due to friction), and the 'realistic' level of physical resilience that is involved in running at mach speeds and then turning at a 90* angle (PD, because without superhuman tissue and bones, you just CANT transfer that sort of force without breaking).

 

Mechanically, in play, a reliance on pure DCV to survive works very well, until it doesnt. In a game, unlike a comic book, there is no author protecting the character from EVER getting hit by inappropriate attacks. Flash somehow never eats a punch from villians who threaten Superman. Your speedster PC, sooner or later, WILL. Random chance is random, AOE attacks happen, perhaps a shot from behind, maybe someone just as agile and fast as you grabs you JUST LONG ENOUGH for Mr. Brick to unload. You -will- get hit, sooner or later. Trust me.

 

At that point, if all you have is DCV, you will almost certainly be comatose. You will likely be dying. You may well be -dead-.

 

Dying, at least dying randomly, for no greater purpose, is not superheroic.

 

Other than the above? Talk to your GM. GMs vary widely on everything, but in my experience they vary MOST widely on what they consider appropriate speed, Dex, and CV. I've seen The Flash at speeds from 6 to 24!, and at Dex's from 24-50+, depending on game power level and GM taste.

[The Main Man]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Well, take a look at the Hyperthrowing Powers (2 of them)

 

One has 30 Active Points while the other has 40 so the Multipower Reserve would have to 40 to accomodate either one.

 

Assuming that the two powers would be "Ultra/Fixed" slots, you would divide their Real Cost by 10 each.

 

Lastly, you can place their common Limitations on the reserve itself.

 

Here is what the final product should look like:

 

Hyperthrowing - Multipower 40-point Reserve; OIF (blunt objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-1/2), Range Based On STR (-¼) Real Cost: 17 CP

 

1) Hyperthrowing: Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (blunt objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-1/2), Range Based On STR (-¼). Total Cost: 18/5 = 4 CP

 

2) Deadly Hyperthrowing: RKA 2d6 (30 Active Points); OIF (sharp objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-1/2), Range Based On STR (-¼). Total Cost: 13/5 = 3 CP

 

Total Cost: 24 CP

[CoreBrute]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Hey if you didn't notice, he doesn't really need that much PD or ED. HE has desolidification. It would save him from guys as fast as him.

 

Also for your duplication thing, May I suggest you buy either duplication with the feedback limitation and make it continue to cost END, to represent moving so fast you are in several places at once.

 

Your Rec is very good, and should help you heal faster, but otherwise just have a regeneration that costs END to use, representing you speeding up your metabolism so you heal faster.

 

Life support Toxics should suffice for your immunity.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

A Multipower or Variable Power Pool (VPP) is a definite must for any speedster to have since they allow for new creative ways to express the nearly all-encompassing aspect of being fast.

 

I suggest reconsidering the 8 SPD.

Although it appears to be the most obvious ability for a speedster to have it really just leads to SPD escalation among all the other characters in a game when other players get frustrated at having 3-4 LESS Phases than your character each Turn.

 

Speedsters, more so than any other character, are campaign benchmark characters. If a GM decides to run a Justice League game using HERO and a player decides to build Flash the GM and Player have to agree upon what Flash's SPD and other abilties are. The GM now must make sure that no other character (player or NPC) is faster than Flash. He is the benchmark of speed in that campaign.

 

For a good example of this take a look at Always and The New Circle (a mystic JLA tribute) from KillerShrike's site .

 

He has several other excellent speedsters like Hype (not to be confused with my namesake here) and Turbofist posted as well.

[Marcus]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

True... and if his GM is comfortable with it, and he is, thats fine.

 

However, I just think the player, especially a new player, will have more fun at the table with some more PD and ED, espc. resistant PD and ED.

 

Makes the character alot more forgiving.

 

*edit*

 

In general, what Hyper-Man said. Espc about inflation and campaign benchmarks.

In specific, Id recommend a Multipower over a VPP for a first character. Odds are, an MP can do everything your likely to want, with alot less work and effort and corner-case rules calls. The VPP is more flexible, but alot more headache.

[Navar]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

The hyperthrowing multipower looks great, but as I understand I can't incorporate it into an elemental multipower.

 

Also I can't take all of those powers, those are just ones I am considering. The ones I consider a must are:

Super running

Overdrive Running

And the two Hyperthrowing powers

As it stands the character above only has 117 points to spend on powers (122 if he doesn't take Autofire.)

 

Also Marcus doesn't "Defense Maneuver IV" prevent much of the "unexpected attacks" thing.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

The hyperthrowing multipower looks great, but as I understand I can't incorporate it into an elemental multipower.

...

 

Also Marcus doesn't "Defense Maneuver IV" prevent much of the "unexpected attacks" thing.

 

 

An Elemental Control (EC) is a type of Power Framework that is really good to have when you have several related abilities that you want to be able to use at the same time. It's not so good for attacks since you can't put a Multipower inside of a EC. What you CAN do is take a custom limitation on the Multipower like:

 

All Powers in Multipower are Affected by Adjustment Powers as if they were in an Elemental Control (-1/4)

 

This gives close to the same cost break as an EC and lets you unify a character's power special effect (speedforce, kryptionian, Asgardian, etc..)

 

 

Defense Maneuver and all of its flavors has always seemed more of mindset than a power IMO. A speedster, especially one with an impatient/impulsive Psych Lim, would likely get bored with the mental discipline necessary for it to be effective. Danger Sense is usually a better fit.

[Navar]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Awesome, thanks Hyperman. I will have to try to work out costs then on the Multipower to see if I can get it to gel at all. Also thanks for all of the example characters.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

My pleasure.

 

Welcome to the boards!

[Navar]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

OK so sorry if these are busted or anything, but how do these multipowers look?

 

Multipower Speed Powers

 

Hyperthrowing - Multipower 40-point Reserve; OIF (blunt objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-½), Range Based On STR (-¼), Can be drained together as an Elemental Control power (-¼) Real Cost: 16 CP

 

1) Hyperthrowing: Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (blunt objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-½), Range Based On STR (-¼). Total Cost: 18/5 = 4 CP

 

2) Deadly Hyperthrowing: RKA 2d6 (30 Active Points); OIF (sharp objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-½), Range Based On STR (-¼). Total Cost: 13/5 = 3 CP

 

Total Cost: 23 CP

 

Superspeed – Multipower 55-point Reserve; Can be drained together as an Elemental Control power (-¼) Real Cost: 44 CP

 

1) Super-Running: Running +20”, x8 Noncombat. Total cost: 55/5 = 11 CP

 

2) Overdrive Running: Running +20” (40 Active Points); MegaScale (1” = 1 km, also applies to base 6” Running; +¼). Total Cost: 50/5 = 10 CP

 

Total Cost: 65 CP

 

Superspeed Tricks – Multipower 40-point reserve; Can be drained together as an Elemental Control power (-¼) Real Cost: 32

 

1) Dodging Bullets: +8 DCV (40 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-½). Total cost: 27/5 = 6 CP.

 

2) Rapid Healing: Healing BODY 4d6 (Regeneration, 4 BODY per Turn) (40 Active Points); Self Only (-½), Extra Time (1 Turn; -1¼). Total cost: 15/5 = 3 CP.

 

3) Desolidification (affected by sonic-, vibration-, and air-based attacks). Total cost: 40/5 = 8 CP.

 

4) Invisibility to Sight Group, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (30 Active Points); Only When Moving (-¼). Total cost: 24/5 = 5 CP.

 

Total Cost: 54 CP

 

Would it help to add the two Hyperthrowing powers into the Speedster Tricks multipower?

[JmOz]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Right now you are using flexable slots, I would use fixed (You divide by 10 instead of 5) except for your first running slot, which with megascale movement in another slot might not need the extra NCM

 

I would also combind the last two multipowers (Hell I would probably combind all three) into one massive MP that you have enough points to keep more powers up and running*

 

I think no kb is -1/4

 

*Basicaly, if you have a 90 point reserve you can have any number of powers up to 90 points running at one time, with fixed slots you have to dedicate all the points in the power to the reserve to activate it, with flexable you only need the points you will be using

[Hyper-Man]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Unless modeling something specific from other source material (like the comics) I see little reason to shortchange some slots of a multipower. If you have decided on 40 active point attacks make the RKA 40 active as well (2 1/2d6).

 

I see how you came up with your 3 multipowers but I would recommend reorganizing them into groups of powers that can be used together (with movement and/or attacks) and those that can't (like desolidification).

 

Also, there is no rule against putting ALL the powers in a SINGLE multipower with a larger reserve than any single power. This is how my namesake character is built using a 120 reserve and 60 point power slot.

 

edit: scooped by JmOz

[Navar]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Like this?

 

Multipower Speed Powers

 

Superspeed – Multipower 80-point Reserve; Can be drained together as an Elemental Control power (-¼) Real Cost: 64 CP

 

2u 1) Hyperthrowing: Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (blunt objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-¼), Range Based On STR (-¼). Total Cost: 20/10 = 2 CP

 

2u 2) Deadly Hyperthrowing: RKA 2d6 (30 Active Points); OIF (sharp objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-¼), Range Based On STR (-¼). Total Cost: 15/10 = 2 CP

 

11m 3) Super-Running: Running +20”, x8 Noncombat. Total cost: 55/5 = 11 CP

 

5u 4) Overdrive Running: Running +20” (40 Active Points); MegaScale (1” = 1 km, also applies to base 6” Running; +¼). Total Cost: 50/10 = 5 CP

 

3u 5) Dodging Bullets: +8 DCV (40 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-½). Total cost: 27/10 = 3 CP.

 

6m 6) Rapid HealingHealing BODY 4d6 (Regeneration,4 BODY per Turn), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Persistent (+½) (80 Active Points); Self Only (-½), Extra Time (1 Turn ;-1¼). Total cost: 29/5 6 CP.

 

4u 7) Desolidification (affected by sonic-, vibration-, and air-based attacks). Total cost: 40/10 = 4 CP.

 

5m 4) Invisibility to Sight Group, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (30 Active Points); Only When Moving (-¼). Total cost: 24/5 = 5 CP.

 

Total Cost: 102 CP

[pinecone]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Sure, you can also make a "Super speed tricks" Multi, and then buy some stuff outside the multi as well...

 

I'd second buying enough defences to survive a hit or two....Ego attacks and Area effects are not that rare....

 

If I was building it I would likely make the Multi (45) and put in lots of speed trck slots, then buy more with Experiance (Hey! I learned a new trick!)

 

And buy the basic super move out side the Multi, (but buy the megascale moving inside the multi...) and don't forget some cool minor effects, like 360 vision, rapid scan and stuff like that.

 

The Dex would be too high for my game, but that is a game to game issue, so ask the GM about that....

 

Moving Invisable can be Invisability while moving, or Teleport: Must traverse path between, both work pretty nicely...

 

Have fun...

[Revenant]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Personally, I'd put the speedster tricks and the movement based ones inside a single EC and leave the Hyperthrowing as a Multipower.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Like the suggestions I see so far. I like the Homage, but think his DEX and DCV is too high and Defenses unsurvivable.

 

 

Nice concept.

 

 

QM

[Trebuchet]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

I'd second buying enough defences to survive a hit or two....Ego attacks and Area effects are not that rare....

I'll third that. I run a Champions character with DEX 43 and SPD 9 and she gets hit about one out of three sessions. Her defenses are 12PD and 12 ED; 6 of each are provided by Combat Luck. With a 4 PD or ED like you've got she'd have been dead several times over by now.

 

The extra BODY was a good idea.

 

Welcome to Hero.

[Maelstrom]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Like this?

 

Multipower Speed Powers

 

Superspeed – Multipower 80-point Reserve; Can be drained together as an Elemental Control power (-¼) Real Cost: 64 CP

 

2u 1) Hyperthrowing: Energy Blast 8d6 (40 Active Points); OIF (blunt objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-¼), Range Based On STR (-¼). Total Cost: 20/10 = 2 CP

 

2u 2) Deadly Hyperthrowing: RKA 2d6 (30 Active Points); OIF (sharp objects of opportunity; -½), No Knockback (-¼), Range Based On STR (-¼). Total Cost: 15/10 = 2 CP

 

11m 3) Super-Running: Running +20”, x8 Noncombat. Total cost: 55/5 = 11 CP

 

5u 4) Overdrive Running: Running +20” (40 Active Points); MegaScale (1” = 1 km, also applies to base 6” Running; +¼). Total Cost: 50/10 = 5 CP

 

3u 5) Dodging Bullets: +8 DCV (40 Active Points); Costs Endurance (-½). Total cost: 27/10 = 3 CP.

 

6m 6) Rapid HealingHealing BODY 4d6 (Regeneration,4 BODY per Turn), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Persistent (+½) (80 Active Points); Self Only (-½), Extra Time (1 Turn ;-1¼). Total cost: 29/5 6 CP.

 

4u 7) Desolidification (affected by sonic-, vibration-, and air-based attacks). Total cost: 40/10 = 4 CP.

 

5m 4) Invisibility to Sight Group, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½) (30 Active Points); Only When Moving (-¼). Total cost: 24/5 = 5 CP.

 

Total Cost: 102 CP

 

 

Very nice.

[Mr. R]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

I'll third that. I run a Champions character with DEX 43 and SPD 9 and she gets hit about one out of three sessions. Her defenses are 12PD and 12 ED; 6 of each are provided by Combat Luck. With a 4 PD or ED like you've got she'd have been dead several times over by now.

 

The extra BODY was a good idea.

 

Welcome to Hero.

 

I will also chime in on the get some defense, even if just a level or two of Combat Luck. As a GM I had player with a speedster, Quickling, who had a dex of 18 AND 3 levels shrinking. Total DCV was 15 at point blank. Explosions, AE's, Mental Powers and generally lucky rolls (yes I rolled 3's and 4's multiple time) were all his big buggaboo. Fortunately he had about 15 pd (8 resist).

 

In your case loose some of the Dex and a point of SPD. Goint to 35 dex nets 9 pts, Spd 7 another 7 pts. Total 16 pts. One level CL is 6 pts and it gives 3 PD and 3 ED. So at minimum you can get two levels or 6 PD/ED. Tacked on to the regen can allow to survive for a bit.

 

PS don't rely on the Desolid to save you. Abuse the power and next thing you know Explosive Affect Desolid attacks. Just has to tag you once real bad and back to making a new PC

[Trebuchet]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

PS don't rely on the Desolid to save you. Abuse the power and next thing you know Explosive Affect Desolid attacks. Just has to tag you once real bad and back to making a new PC

Quite so. Remember your character has to turn off his Desolidification in order to attack non-Desolid characters or objects. That's a HUGE window of vulnerability.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

A Multipower or Variable Power Pool (VPP) is a definite must for any speedster to have since they allow for new creative ways to express the nearly all-encompassing aspect of being fast.

 

I suggest reconsidering the 8 SPD.

Although it appears to be the most obvious ability for a speedster to have it really just leads to SPD escalation among all the other characters in a game when other players get frustrated at having 3-4 LESS Phases than your character each Turn.

 

Speedsters, more so than any other character, are campaign benchmark characters. If a GM decides to run a Justice League game using HERO and a player decides to build Flash the GM and Player have to agree upon what Flash's SPD and other abilties are. The GM now must make sure that no other character (player or NPC) is faster than Flash. He is the benchmark of speed in that campaign.

 

For a good example of this take a look at Always and The New Circle (a mystic JLA tribute) from KillerShrike's site .

 

He has several other excellent speedsters like Hype (not to be confused with my namesake here) and Turbofist posted as well.

 

Thanks for the plug...heres a bunch (lifted from another thread):

 

Hype

Turbofist

Breakneck (350)

Breakneck (500)

Richochet

Kamikaze

Speedball (everyone's favorite New Warrior)

Gentleman Jim

 

 

 

Always (by OddHat)

Always (High Power) (by OddHat)

Johnny Tick-Tock (also by OddHat)

Brown Recluse (by Corven Ren)

Thunderbolt II (Speed Zone) -- my version of the official Thunderbolt II villain (he's Hype's nemesis / enemy -- this is the speed zone version that goes with the speed zone version of Hype)

[Navar]

Re: My first character (Speedster)

 

Thanks for all the help. This character isn't really an homage though, I am shooting for a unique speedster character.

 

What character did you think I was doing the homage to?