The Everquest Taunt

[AThousandYoung]

One of Everquest's brilliances was the idea of the Taunt, in which the tough, armored guys do a ghetto sort of Mind Control to force the enemy to hit them instead of the squishy PCs.

 

How would you build this mechanic into a Champions character?

 

My current character was based on this theme; he started out as the silly Targetman, the hero with massive defenses, a Mind Control based Taunt, and no attacks. His constume had a big obnoxious bullseye-target on it.

 

The game world is not silly however, but is dark and menacing instead, so Targetman became Guardian Angel, a chicano mentalist martial artist who stalked the streets like Batman, looking for bad guys.

 

This concept led to the Invisibility power, as Guardian Angel forced others to NOT notice him with his mental powers.

 

Now - how do you build a martial artist street fighter with two mental powers - a Taunt and Invisibility?

 

I found this extraordinarily difficult. Having more than one power led me to Multipower, but this meant I might as well become a versatile amateur mentalist, since I could but a new mental power for like 4 or 5 points (I forget). This took away from the concept, and forced Guardian Angel into something of an archetype (or rather a combination of two archetypes). I distinctly felt the lack of flexibility in the HERO system when I made this character.

 

How would you efficiently build such a character? A Taunt power like in EQ (or WoW, they do the same thing I understand), Invisibility, and otherwise pure Martial Arts?

 

The Invisibility is intended for stealth, not necessarily invisible combat or invisible Mind Controlling (which is the gimmick my allies want from me); Guardian Angel is supposed to appear in the thick of the crime, challenging the enemy to fight him instead of their victim, like a true hero!

 

I don't have my writeup handy, but it was never quite satisfactory. I found myself upgrading with Ego Blast and I'll probably move into things like mind reading and the like since the system as well as the GM's universe railroad me into the "mentalist" archetype, taking away from the concept.

 

How would you build such a character?

[Mendou]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

Honestly, I'd be tempted to build the Taunt as a Presence Attack, with additional PRE only for getting the enemies focused directly on you. That wouldn't be expensive at all, and you could then afford Invisibility without having to worry about being a mentalist otherwise.

[CTaylor]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

I've always considered the concept of the taunt as a gross and illogical game mechanic, forcing people to fight the tank so they don't butcher everyone else. It's a way of making various archetypes work in a very rigid, controlled setting such as MMOG and it doesn't fit well in the more fluid, creative setting of a real role playing game.

 

However, if you feel compelled to build such a thing, I agree, presence is the way to go. Anything else becomes prohibitively expensive for the minor effect.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

Assuming you did go the Multipower route (perhaps with bonus PRE rather than Mind Control, and Invisibility), why do other powers have to be "classic mentalist powers"? Multipowers have no SFX restrictions. You're the one who's "forcing" the character to be a mentalist.

 

An Iron Fist type chi focus attack would fit fine in such a Multipower. Influencing an opponent to pull his attacks (Damage Reduction, not if target has EgGo + Mental defense exceeding X) would seem reasonable.

 

Change Environment with reductions to OCV and DCV (perhaps on a Selective basis to allow you to impair opponents and not teammates) causes the target to fight less effectively, their combat skills impaired by your mental powers.

 

The fact that your character has powers with a mental SFX does not force you to make him a classic mentalist archetype.

[mwiggins]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

One of Everquest's brilliances was the idea of the Taunt' date='[/quote']

not origionaly thier idea. It was from Dragonlance, it was one of the Kender traits.

Copied from Wikipedia:

Kender have a very sharp wit and tongue, and as such, are masters at the art of insulting people. Kender see great flaws with most of the insults directed at them ("Thief" and "Cutpurse" aside) and take delight in showing people what a real insult is like. Kender seem to have a wide repertoire of insults for any race and any occasion, and have no clue when is the right time to stop insulting someone.

[Twilight]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

I'd say it's just good roleplaying. If the player can come up with a really good insult to use on a villain, the villain might chose to avenge said insult by trying to clobber said player.

[Comic]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

I'd recommend "Tactics" to determine when best to draw fire, "Deduction" to guess at the sort of taunt most likely to change the behavior of an opponent, and "Persuasion" or "Oratory" depending on single or multiple targets, for the general case.

 

For the particular case of someone who can employ these skills extremely well in the area of a combat, I might advise Change Environment to enhance those skill rolls or reduce the resistance to this combination in the area.

[Egyptoid]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

Taunts are great, and can be very "in character",

both for the taunter, and the target,

 

but it comes down to the GM's perception of the tactical situation.

 

The target shouldn't forget everything he's ever learned about fighting,

and if he's got wisdom, sense, or tactics, that would be bonuses to resist.

 

Unless the taunter has specific verbal ammo for the target's psych disads.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

Mind Control, requires a Persuasion skill roll, limited range (earshot), only one command ("Attack Me"), possibly other situational modifiers like language dependent depending on the level of detail you want.

 

You won't need a lot of dice; if the fight has already started, most people are going to be pretty inclined to fight you if they already know you're an enemy.

[Badger]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

I've always considered the concept of the taunt as a gross and illogical game mechanic, forcing people to fight the tank so they don't butcher everyone else. It's a way of making various archetypes work in a very rigid, controlled setting such as MMOG and it doesn't fit well in the more fluid, creative setting of a real role playing game.

 

However, if you feel compelled to build such a thing, I agree, presence is the way to go. Anything else becomes prohibitively expensive for the minor effect.

 

Yeah, the taunt thing bothers me a little. There should be some reasoning to allow certain players to "ignore" the taunt and do what they want. The Champion NPC shouldnt be compelled to fight the "tank" regardless. Course, the only way I can think of is some personality thing "Doesnt respond to taunts". Barring some EGO check of course.

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

Mind Control, requires a Persuasion skill roll, limited range (earshot), only one command ("Attack Me"), possibly other situational modifiers like language dependent depending on the level of detail you want.

 

You won't need a lot of dice; if the fight has already started, most people are going to be pretty inclined to fight you if they already know you're an enemy.

I think this is the way to go. However, if you want some thing more subtle or 'realistic' try using MC to trigger a berserk or enraged that the target already has. It would limit the power a bit, of course, but would properly reflect the fact that only certain targets are liable to be susceptible to such a thing.

[Utech]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

How about this:

 

Reputation: Best to Target this guy First

Known to a large group 14-

 

Total cost: 3 points

 

In this case "Reputation" stands in for "Taunt" -- it is not, in fact, a result of people talking about this hero.

[Comic]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

Speaking of, anyone recall any particularly good taunts from roleplay?

 

"You can't hurt me, Ogre. I'm the strongest one there is." (Said while desolid.)

 

And, to his (can't believe he made his Int roll) question, "Why Red Man all blurry?"

 

The only answer I could come up with on the spot, "Because I have a headache. Please don't yell."

[Blue]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

If they were heroes taunting NPCs, I'd go with simple PRE attacks. If it was something being built for NPCs to use on heroes, I'd require it to be mind control, because that's the ONLY mechanic in the game that can take such a step with a PC.

[The Weapon]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

Yeah' date=' the taunt thing bothers me a little. There should be some reasoning to allow certain players to "ignore" the taunt and do what they want. The Champion NPC shouldnt be compelled to fight the "tank" regardless. Course, the only way I can think of is some personality thing "Doesnt respond to taunts". Barring some EGO check of course.[/quote']

 

Well just add skill levels or Mental/Presence Defense against things either taunts or things that make you attack generally and call it "Cool head" or something.

 

Historically attempts to make people attack were part of many battles. A lot of Mongol victories happened when they "ran away" and fools followed exactly where they wanted them to go. The Spartans did this twice to the Persian army, including to the Immortals (who really needed a name change after that). The Normans also did it twice to King Harold's men. That's what using militias gets you.

 

Don't forget to include the target characters tendencies, if he's the type who keeps his calm then there's up to a +20 to resist.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

Yeah' date=' the taunt thing bothers me a little. There should be some reasoning to allow certain players to "ignore" the taunt and do what they want. The Champion NPC shouldnt be compelled to fight the "tank" regardless. Course, the only way I can think of is some personality thing "Doesnt respond to taunts". Barring some EGO check of course.[/quote']

 

That would be a Psych Lim and/or circumstances that run counter to the command. If someone with a 20pt Code Against Killing is taunted, but someone's about to be crushed by a stampeding water buffalo, the Psych Lim gives a big bonus against the command.

 

If you don't use a lot of dice (say, more than 6), it'll only work on people who are already inclined to attack you in the first place.

[Sketchpad]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

I'd just build it as a PRE Attack as well

[CTaylor]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

Yeah, taunt isn't a specialized skill, anyone can taunt someone, just some are going to be better at it. Treating it as a presence attack models this well; you could just adapt the presence table slightly:

 

=PRE: Creature ignores other targets unless they do greater harm than the taunter or are clearly engaged in healing or behavior the creature wishes to stop

PRE+10: Creature ignores other targets unless they do significantly greater harm than the taunter, has a -1 perception modifier to notice others engaged in activities, will shift to other targets only if they repeat such activities

PRE+20: Creature ignores other targets entirely, focusing on the taunter

PRE+30: Creature madly attacks the taunter, ignoring tactics or special attacks as if enraged, and ignores all other combatants

 

Probably should allow the creature an EGO roll at -1 per level of the presence attack past the first (-1 at PRE+10, -2 for PRE+20, and so on) to shake off the taunt, but not until the following phase. Maybe a system where the effects of the taunt fade, so the EGO roll becomes easier each phase until a new taunt is done.

 

Something like that.

 

Just the whole taunting tank/healer model is irrational and doesn't fit any genre other than MMOGs. It just doesn't make sense in any setting except one designed to encourage that kind of grouping dynamic.

[Karmakaze]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

I've done this is before. I'd been doing a lot of that - drawing fire by taunting the villains - and finally bought a PRE-based skill "Taunt". (Bolt wasn't a brick, but she did dodge well.) Modeling it as a PRE attack makes the most sense. I definitely got bonuses for appropriate speech.

 

PRE attacks don't have to be fear-based, after all. (I recall in a Pulp game modeling the "Stop traffic by showing a little leg" trick as a PRE attack. Worked for summoning taxis too.)

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

...

=PRE: Creature ignores other targets unless they do greater harm than the taunter or are clearly engaged in healing or behavior the creature wishes to stop

PRE+10: Creature ignores other targets unless they do significantly greater harm than the taunter, has a -1 perception modifier to notice others engaged in activities, will shift to other targets only if they repeat such activities

PRE+20: Creature ignores other targets entirely, focusing on the taunter

PRE+30: Creature madly attacks the taunter, ignoring tactics or special attacks as if enraged, and ignores all other combatants

This is a good start, but we need to create the sample bonuses chart...

 

Repeatedly poking target in the arm, +1d6

Repeating everything target says in nasally voice, +2d6

Insulting target's lineage, +2d6

Insulting target's lasagna recipe, +3d6

Comments about target's mother, +3d6

Comments about target's girlfriend, +3d6

[Note: If target's mother is his girlfriend, the attack does not get both bonuses]

Arcane taunt, -1d6

Shakespearean taunt, -2d6

Using the phrase "donkey scrotum," +1d6

Using the phrase "all the Viagra in the world," +2d6

Using the phrase "nanny booboo," -1d6

[Gnaskar]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

But would the "mother" and "lineage" bonuses stack?

[Logan D. Hurricanes]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

But would the "mother" and "lineage" bonuses stack?

Absolutely. "Your whore of a mother" is bad, but "Your whore of a mother from that god forsaken craphole of an island" is a double whammy.

[Egyptoid]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

what are the plusses for working Grond into the insult somehow ?

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

Simple

 

+20 Presence Attack, Targets must target attacker (-1)

 

 

IMOHO, Presence as I have come to see it is the most under estimated and utilized ability/power in HERO System.

 

 

QM

[AnotherSkip]

Re: The Everquest Taunt

 

not origionaly thier idea. It was from Dragonlance, it was one of the Kender traits.

Copied from Wikipedia:

 

Bah!!! Spidey beats em' by DECADES!!!!!!