About PRIMUS

[Peregrine]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

The only reference I've seen to SAT being absorbed into PRIMUS comes from the article on World Security Services from Hero System Almanac 2, from the 4E days. And that was partial; SAT was disbanded as redundant and their agents either returned to the military service from whence they came or transferred into PRIMUS.

 

My further thoughts on SAT, based on my PRIMUS write-up as linked to upthread:

 

SAT was a response to PRIMUS being selected as the go-forward superagency. Representatives from DOD and DOJ met and discussed a joint agency, finally coming up with the plan I discussed upthread.

 

SAT initially chose not to use any supersoldier or superhuman soldier process on their agents in order to avoid further comparisons with PRIMUS, especially comparisons that might reflect negatively on SAT. However, they aggressively investigated research into nutrition, fitness and bodybuilding, and sports medicine and integrated solid and safe breakthroughs into their regulations and training practices. The result was that SAT agents lived like professional athletes in training, and were some of the most all-around athletically fit individuals anywhere. (Game mechanics - all Primary physical characteristics are 15 or better; Figured characteristics are proportionately high as well.) Beyond that, they were extensively trained in counter-terror and counter-super tactics and operations, easily equaling both UNTIL and PRIMUS's non-enhanced agents in that area.

 

There was some rivalry between SAT and PRIMUS, especially during the 1980s, when both agencies reached their peak in budget and size. Despite overtures from the Director of PRIMUS, SAT declined any formal cooperative arrangements with their sister organization. The return of UNTIL to the U.S. in 1993 added them to the rivalry; while PRIMUS initiated an exchange of liaisons with UNTIL, SAT cooperation with either was on a case-by-case basis, at the discretion of the local SAT Commander.

 

Since PRIMUS became an international treaty organization after the V'Hanian Invasion (which occurred in 2001 in my setting), SAT has become what it sought to be since its inception - the sole U.S. superagency. With that, SAT made the decision to start using a variation on the decades-old Perseus treatment on its agents, in addition to the well-proven lifestyle and training regimen that SAT agents still follow.

 

Edit: Oh, and don't worry about tossing out ideas. If you want a second set of eyes on them before you go public, PM me through the boards and I'll be happy to take a look.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

So for the Mystic World PRIMUS would need the Ectoplasmatic Avenger?

 

Just chiming in with my 2 cents' worth, having magician characters attached to otherwise high-tech and somewhat gritty government organizations can come off extremely hokey and mess up the tone of the story. (See a ridiculous sorcery-using S.H.I.E.L.D. agent in the pages of She Hulk a few years ago as an example.) Mike Mignola's Hellboy stories are about the only instance I can recall of it being done well, and in that case it's a whole government agency charged with opposing supernatural threats, and standard supervillains are nowhere to be found.

 

I think the best approach for covering the mystic world angle is having a non-costumed occult detective type character unofficially affiliated with the organization to provide research, advice, and contacts with more blatantly supernatural allies as needed.

[Peregrine]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Just chiming in with my 2 cents' worth' date=' having magician characters attached to otherwise high-tech and somewhat gritty government organizations can come off extremely hokey and mess up the tone of the story. (See a ridiculous sorcery-using S.H.I.E.L.D. agent in the pages of [i']She Hulk[/i] a few years ago as an example.) Mike Mignola's Hellboy stories are about the only instance I can recall of it being done well, and in that case it's a whole government agency charged with opposing supernatural threats, and standard supervillains are nowhere to be found.

 

I think the best approach for covering the mystic world angle is having a non-costumed occult detective type character unofficially affiliated with the organization to provide research, advice, and contacts with more blatantly supernatural allies as needed.

 

Good points. Maybe a sub-unit of PRIMUS dediated to the Mystic World, to capture the Hellboy feel and avoid the hokey feel? (This, of course, would raise the question of why the skeptic Barton Stano is the Silver Avenger assigned to "mystic wierdness central" aka Vibora Bay... unless his skpticism is a put-on...)

[JmOz]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Good points. Maybe a sub-unit of PRIMUS dediated to the Mystic World' date=' to capture the [i']Hellboy[/i] feel and avoid the hokey feel? (This, of course, would raise the question of why the skeptic Barton Stano is the Silver Avenger assigned to "mystic wierdness central" aka Vibora Bay... unless his skpticism is a put-on...)

 

That's an interesting idea, I was thinking more "X-Files" than Hellboy, but I will think about it. PRIMUS already has a semi-official mystic department called the witches IIRC (Written up on a website by SM, and in a Digital hero article)

[Peregrine]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

And there's no need, really, to have anybody in the unit with any magical ability. Magical knowledge, OTOH, would be invaluable.

 

Unless, of course, you fall into the "only magic can combat magic" school of thought, in which case the above just gets PRIMUS agents killed.

[JmOz]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

And there's no need' date=' really, to have anybody in the unit with any magical [i']ability[/i]. Magical knowledge, OTOH, would be invaluable.

 

Unless, of course, you fall into the "only magic can combat magic" school of thought, in which case the above just gets PRIMUS agents killed.

 

No, I do have some ideas how magic (and mentalism) is suppose to work in my game, including that it is a learned skill, so they really do need some, but I am thinking more like Giles (from Buffy) than Dr. Strange/Fate

[Peregrine]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

No' date=' I do have some ideas how magic (and mentalism) is suppose to work in my game, including that it is a learned skill, so they really do need some, but I am thinking more like Giles (from Buffy) than Dr. Strange/Fate[/quote']

 

That's close to what I was thinking myself.

[fbdaury]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Just something that I was kicing around in my mind last week and got down onto paper before I got bored with it, a set of package deals for PRIMUS- a racial-type package for Silver Avenger level Cyberline enhancement, a General agent package as well as Avenger skill package.

 

Silver Avenger Cyberline Enhancement:

+20 Str (20)

+8 Dex (24)

+8 Con (16)

+5 Body (10)

+4 Com (2)

+12 Pd total (8)- includes bonus from Str

+12 Ed total (10)- includes bonus from Con

+2 Spd total (12)- includes bonus from Dex

+7 Rec total (2)- includes binus from Str and Con

+20 End total (2)- includes bonus from Con

+25 Stun total (6)- includes binus from Str and Con

+3 to Sight group perception rolls (9)

+3" Running (6)

1/2 End cost on Str 35-40 (9-10)

8rPd/8rEd Damage Resistance (8)

10 points power defense (10)

Total starting cost of Cyberline enhancement: 154/155 points

Disadvantages:

x1 1/2 Stun from Chemicals and poisons (uncommon) (5)

x1 1/2 Effect from Adjustment or mental powers based on chemicals/drugs

(uncommon group) (10)

Distinctive Feature: Induced Mutations (Not Concealable, special tech or senses, Strong reaction) (10)

End cost of Cyberline Enhancement: 129/130 points

 

Basic PRIMUS agent Training:

Perk: National Police Powers (3)

Perk: Concealed Carry Permit (2)

Membership: PRIMUS-Agent (3)

Security Clearance Lvl 3 (3)

Scholar (3)

CK: City of Assignment 11 (2)

KS: Criminal Law 11 (1)

KS: Supers' World 11 (1)

KS: PRIMUS 11 (1)

Language- One additional at Fluent Conversation level (2)

15pts worth of Martial Arts (generally Commando Training) (15)

Paramedics 11 (2)

PS: PRIMUS Agent 11 (2)

Teamwork 11 (2)

WF: Small arms and Common Melee Weapons (4)

+2 OCV with tight group of attacks (6)

Starting cost of Basic PRIMUS agent training: 52 points

Disadvantages:

Subject to Orders (20)

Distinctive Features: PRIMUS uniform (easy conceal/recognized) (5)

Reputation: PRIMUS agent 11 (10)

End cost of Basic PRIMUS agent training: 17 points

 

Silver Avenger Training: Add to the Basic Agent package

Acrobatics (Dex/5+9) (3)

Breakfall (Dex/5+9) (3)

Tactics (Int/5+9) (3)

1 overall combat skill level (8)

Total cost of Avenger Training: 17pts. Total cost to be Silver Avenger: 129/130+17+17= 163/164 points

 

This seem reasonable to all of you?

[drunkonduty]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Great thread! Lots of interesting material here that should be relevent to my upcoming campaign. Not to mention the interesting real world factoids too.

 

One little question, a little off-topic. Up-thread someone mentioned a whole list of Super-Soldier style projects: Cyberline, Perseus, Achilles.

 

Is there any single list of all the Super Soldier projects in the CU that outlines the Who, Where, When, and Effectiveness?

 

It's just that I'm starting a new campaign and one of the players wants to play a scientist who's worked on a lot of super soldier programmes. I'm really just looking for some extra background material to give him.

 

thanks guys,

Glen.

[bubba smith]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Great thread! Lots of interesting material here that should be relevent to my upcoming campaign. Not to mention the interesting real world factoids too.

 

One little question, a little off-topic. Up-thread someone mentioned a whole list of Super-Soldier style projects: Cyberline, Perseus, Achilles.

 

Is there any single list of all the Super Soldier projects in the CU that outlines the Who, Where, When, and Effectiveness?

 

It's just that I'm starting a new campaign and one of the players wants to play a scientist who's worked on a lot of super soldier programmes. I'm really just looking for some extra background material to give him.

 

thanks guys,

Glen.

good question as for agent stano as i read in vibora bay he considers ,mystic abilites super powers and calling itMAGIC absurd

[Peregrine]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Great thread! Lots of interesting material here that should be relevent to my upcoming campaign. Not to mention the interesting real world factoids too.

 

One little question, a little off-topic. Up-thread someone mentioned a whole list of Super-Soldier style projects: Cyberline, Perseus, Achilles.

 

Is there any single list of all the Super Soldier projects in the CU that outlines the Who, Where, When, and Effectiveness?

 

It's just that I'm starting a new campaign and one of the players wants to play a scientist who's worked on a lot of super soldier programmes. I'm really just looking for some extra background material to give him.

 

thanks guys,

Glen.

 

The closest you get is where I found the upthread info; Champions Universe. The best details about Perseus are in the write-up for the All American, which is on pp. 37-39. Achilles, Yeoman, and Onslaught are discussed on pp. 40-41 under "Superhuman Soldier Projects". Cyberline gets a mention on p. 43 under "PRIMUS". See also the GM's vault: p. 116 for more about the All-American (sidebar) and Cyberline (again under "PRIMUS").

 

The writup for Silver Avenger Mayte Sanchez in Millenium City (pp.69-70) provides some insight into PRIMUS and their application of Cyberline from the point of view of one recipient's history, as well as the typical results of the treatment; bear in mind that Sanchez is, as of that publication, already an experienced Silver Avenger rather than "just out of the lab". Unfortunately, the writeup for Silver Avenger Barton Stano in Vibora Bay (p. 69) provides little additional information, except to show that a less experienced Avenger may be less powerful, although other explanations for his characteristic variations are possible.

 

That's about it for 5E sources. 4E had the PRIMUS eBook (still available through the Hero Store, as I recall) which added a lot of detail about Cyberline and PRIMUS that may or may not still be canonical, and no details about any other treatments.

 

As to your scientist PC... depending on his INT and skill levels, that PC could very well be the catalyst (or cause) of major breakthroughs in superhuman soldier research and development, should you want such in your campaign.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Thinking about mystical Primus Avenegers, I couldn't resist these titles; Silver Avatar (a variation on avenger) and Avenger-X !

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Food for thought. What Martial Arts are you going to give your agents JmOz, if any ? I think depending which style you give your agents can reflect how you view your agency, this is regardless of the mechanics/effectiveness of said manuevers.

 

For example, if you give assault agents Commando style, it can refelct an agressiveness of your agents and/or its military background, even if it is still a civilian agency. If you give it a Police Self-defense, then it reflects a more civilian thought. Or you can give them generic martial arts call it what you want, but (in my opinion) gives it a more comic/cinematic feel. Agent four doesn't have Martial Arts because the brass feels that it is a waste of time.

 

As I said, the mechanics aren't as important, but consider these three responses towards your PC, and assume none can harm your PC. Agent one throws a knifehand (killing Strike) at you. Agent two tries to grab your wrist (Martial Grab) to handcuff you. Agent three tries to kick you in the head (Offensive Strike). Agent four just tries to punch you (Strike).

 

Any ways, just thinking.

[drunkonduty]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Thanks Peregrine. I do have Champions Universe and Millennium City. I I'll have go through and re-read them. Not to mention the various NPC write-ups for all the many super power giving projects listed there (like Project Sunburst.)

 

And yeah, my player's scientist is going to be fairly successful in the super power creating game. 2 of the other characters have him in their origin stories.

 

cheers again!

[Peregrine]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Thanks Peregrine. I do have Champions Universe and Millennium City. I I'll have go through and re-read them. Not to mention the various NPC write-ups for all the many super power giving projects listed there (like Project Sunburst.)

 

And yeah, my player's scientist is going to be fairly successful in the super power creating game. 2 of the other characters have him in their origin stories.

 

cheers again!

 

Onslaught, in Predators, is a "failed" product of Project Onslaught. The failure was psychological, not physical, so that character sheet is a good example of the physical results of Onslaught.

 

And, quite frankly, Project Sunburst in 5E never sat very well with me. In the real world, nobody was doing above ground nuclear testing in the 90s. Sunburst has a strong 60s feel to it that I just can't see happening in the 90s.

[Peregrine]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Thinking about mystical Primus Avenegers' date=' I couldn't resist these titles; Silver Avatar (a variation on avenger) and Avenger-X ! [/quote']

 

Where were you when my Fallen Avenger thread was active?

 

Seriously, this sub-thread feeds nicely into my thoughts there...

[Peregrine]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Food for thought. What Martial Arts are you going to give your agents JmOz, if any ? I think depending which style you give your agents can reflect how you view your agency, this is regardless of the mechanics/effectiveness of said manuevers.

 

For example, if you give assault agents Commando style, it can refelct an agressiveness of your agents and/or its military background, even if it is still a civilian agency. If you give it a Police Self-defense, then it reflects a more civilian thought. Or you can give them generic martial arts call it what you want, but (in my opinion) gives it a more comic/cinematic feel. Agent four doesn't have Martial Arts because the brass feels that it is a waste of time.

 

As I said, the mechanics aren't as important, but consider these three responses towards your PC, and assume none can harm your PC. Agent one throws a knifehand (killing Strike) at you. Agent two tries to grab your wrist (Martial Grab) to handcuff you. Agent three tries to kick you in the head (Offensive Strike). Agent four just tries to punch you (Strike).

 

Any ways, just thinking.

 

Speaking for myself, Commando Training works just fine. If you want a more law-enforcement-oriented response, leave out the Karate "Chop" (Killing Strike). If you want a little more "martial arts action", add a Muay Thai (Thai Kick Boxing in UMA) Kick (Offensive Strike).

 

For my version of SAT, martial arts training is part of the "total package". Commando Training as a base, plus Boxing, Muay Thai, and Krav Maga.

 

SAT Martial Arts
Cost    Martial Arts Maneuver
3    Akido Throw:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +1 DCV, STR +v/5, Target Falls
4    Boxing Cross:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +2 DCV, STR+2d6 Strike
4    Choke:  1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, Grab One Limb; 2d6 NND
4    Dodge:  1/2 Phase, -- OCV, +5 DCV, Dodge, Affects All Attacks, Abort
4    Escape:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +15 STR vs. Grabs
4    Foot Push:  1/2 Phase, +0 OCV, +0 DCV, +15 STR to Shove
4    Hold:  1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -1 DCV, Grab Three Limbs, STR for holding on
3    Jab:  1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +1 DCV, STR Strike
4    Judo Disarm:  1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, +1 DCV, Disarm; +10 STR to Disarm roll
4    Karate "Chop":  1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +0 DCV, HKA 1d6 +1
5    Kick:  1/2 Phase, -2 OCV, +1 DCV, STR+4d6 Strike
4    Kung Fu Block:  1/2 Phase, +2 OCV, +2 DCV, Block, Abort
1    Weapon Element:  Clubs
1    Weapon Element:  Knives
Martial Arts Cost: 54

Cost    Skill
3    Breakfall
2    WF:  Common Melee Weapons
Skills Cost: 5

 

Of course, not every agent will have all maneuvers, but SAT heavily encourages full development of hand-to-hand skill.

 

(HERO Designer Package Deal attached for your convenience.)

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Thanks for the compliments Pergrine. As for names, I mine as well throw this out for S.A.T. - S.T.A.R. Special Tactical Adavance Response. It may not be the best, but it does seem better (and more patrotic) than SAT. my homebrew organization was E.A.G.L.E. (Elite American Government Law Enforcement).

[Peregrine]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Thanks for the compliments Pergrine. As for names' date=' I mine as well throw this out for S.A.T. - S.T.A.R. Special Tactical Adavance Response. It may not be the best, but it does seem better (and more patrotic) than SAT. my homebrew organization was E.A.G.L.E. (Elite American Government Law Enforcement). [/quote']

 

I've been considering an alternative name for SAT myself. I'm leaning toward keeping it for the sake of Champions/Hero history, but I do want to change the original acronym. "Special American Tactics" seems... kinda "meh". Maybe Superhuman A____ Teams? "Action"? I dunno...

[bubba smith]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

I've been considering an alternative name for SAT myself. I'm leaning toward keeping it for the sake of Champions/Hero history' date=' but I do want to change the original acronym. "Special American Tactics" seems... kinda "meh". Maybe Superhuman A____ Teams? "Action"? I dunno...[/quote']

superhuman action teams?

[Sketchpad]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

On the idea of a magic division of Primus, why not call it something like "The Basement Division" or "The Spooks Division". It might actually have a more proper name (like Division 13), but that's the nickname most agents call it (and the people from it).

 

In such a division, maybe have a few Silver Avengers (maybe call them Iron Avengers/Shadow Avengers/Ghost Avengers) that are dedicated to that division and have specialized gear. On top of that, there might be more magically inclined personnel that work with them:

- A ghost of a former investigative agent who has continue his work in hopes of finding his killer.

- A dhampir that's in it to purge the world of the creatures like himself.

- An occult investigator that knows a little too much, and needs the company to protect himself.

- A former patriotic hero that's joined to discover why he isn't dead.

- A lycanthropic Avenger that's somewhere between beast and man.

- An agent that has secret, Atlantean linage ... and the power to prove it.

 

Just a few ideas ...

[JmOz]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

Issue 2 of digital hero has a bit on a subgroup of PRIMUS called the Wizards, that I will probably use some of for this dark corner

 

Right now I am thinking a small group (the article says 20 agents, sounds about right)

I think 2-3 will be odd plus a bronze avenger to lead them. Among the odd, I like the idea of the ghost agent, and probably one with some spell casting powers, but more long ritual than combat magic...

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

For my Champions Universe the RCMP added new Divisions to handle these threats:

 

[RCMP CSIS] Royal Canadian Mounted Police (Div.16) - "Canadian Security Intelligence Service”.

Mandate: Foreign and Domestic Security and Intelligence. (Canada's FBI, CIA, NSA, etc...)

 

[RCMP SERT] Royal Canadian Mounted Police (Div.17) - "Superhuman Emergency Response Team".

Mandate: Counter Terrorism, Hostage Rescue, and Special Police Services. (Canada's UNTIL Defender Units.)

 

[RCMP PSIS] Royal Canadian Mounted Police (Div.18) - "Paranormal Supernatural Investigation Service".

Mandate: Investigate Paranormal, Supernatural, and other Unexplained Phenomena. (Canada's Special Investigations Unit.)

 

The objective was to no over compartmentalize the organization and still maintain clear mandates.

 

 

IMOHO

 

 

QM

[Peregrine]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

superhuman action teams?

 

That was my initial thought, but I think I've settled on Superhuman Activity Team. Very much Washingtonese in tone, which explains why SAT never uses it if they can avoid doing so.

[bubba smith]

Re: About PRIMUS

 

That was my initial thought' date=' but I think I've settled on Superhuman Activity Team. Very much Washingtonese in tone, which explains why SAT never uses it if they can avoid doing so. [/quote']

and they'd avoidy jokes about the name sounding like a childrens book