Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

[danbuter1]

I'm thinking of picking up an older, self-contained version of Fantasy Hero. Something that would hopefully be simpler, and easy to run with just the one book. But I can't really find much info on the older games (though I'm sure there are some websites out there about them).

[Bismark]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

Fantasy HERO 1st ed. was a self-contained game that came out in 1986 and, like the other CHAMPIONS spin-offs of that era (Danger International, for instance) had rules that were similar to but not the same as the original super-hero game. This edition pre-dates 'HERO System' as such.

 

2nd edition Fantasy HERO (1990) was a genre book to go with 4th edition HERO system and was not stand-alone.

 

3rd edition FH is, of course, the matching fantasy genre book for the 5th edition HERO rules.

 

1st ed FH looks quite nice (the internal layout/design says 'Fantasy' more than later iterations), but you will find the rules a little sparse compared to the later versions (you could always import the Advantages/Limitations you like from later versions into the earlier version, though).

 

Hope this helps!

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

Fantasy HERO is a genre book; its not intended to serve as a playable campaign setting. If you are looking for a setting, Hero Games has several under active publication.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

I'm part of the fanbase that would love to see the HERO lite rules (Sidekick, Basic 6E Rulebook, whatever) combined with a fantasy setting in order to attract some folks over to HERO. Probably not titled "Fantasy HERO" as that is the genre book.

[danbuter1]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

If a self-contained Hero Fantasy book came out, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. While I love hero, I don't love carrying around 10 books to run a fantasy game.

[Rapier]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

I'm a rather completist, so I own all the old books (all the way back) except for the elusive Wings of the Valkyrie (which, one day, will be MINE).

 

For the most part, anything before 4th edition is a waste of time for a playing perspective. The books tend to be rather short and slim on details (with some notable exceptions). The game has changed so much that except for some plot ideas or character concepts, they are useless as an actual supplement. Also, back in those days, there was really only the one game (ie Champions) that happened to have some offshoots where you could shoe-horn (and it's a pinchy fit not suited to long walks) another genre into the rules.

 

I've found that even much of the 4th Edition stuff was of dubious value. IIRC, the property went through a number of owners during that particular period (including ICE). Some of the products didn't appear to have passed as strenuous a proofreading as others. Some appeared to have been rushed to print and some of the products (not to point too direct a finger...but CyberHero) seemed to be lacking in their ability to stand as a 'how do I run an X genre game?'

 

One of my greatest joys with Steve (et al, and Steve as LLD) is the contiguousness of the product, the standard of care in proofreading, the focus on the game being multi-genre, the toolkitedness thing and the continued view of the 'forest' while not losing sight of the 'trees.'

 

I guess what I'm saying, is that if you really want to run a genre game and are looking for a supplement go edition 5+. Period. Hands down.

 

The big blue box basic addition of D&D is fun to have on the shelf so you can point and laugh and wax nostalgic, but PLEASE don't drag it off the shelf and try to actually use it!

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

If a self-contained Hero Fantasy book came out' date=' I'd buy it in a heartbeat. While I love hero, I don't love carrying around 10 books to run a fantasy game.[/quote']

 

You would only need multiple books at character creation time (mainly for spell casters) and the occasional times when XP is spent. Actual games could be run with as little as just the GM screen depending on your familiarity with the basic 5er rules.

[azato]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

DAT is a great idea.

 

I'm part of the fanbase that would love to see the HERO lite rules (Sidekick' date=' Basic 6E Rulebook, whatever) combined with a fantasy setting in order to attract some folks over to HERO. Probably not titled "Fantasy HERO" as that is the genre book.[/quote']

[danbuter1]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

You would only need multiple books at character creation time (mainly for spell casters) and the occasional times when XP is spent. Actual games could be run with as little as just the GM screen depending on your familiarity with the basic 5er rules.

 

I guess you have an IQ of 200 or something, because I'm always flipping through books during a game. Even games that I've been running for years.

[DreadDomain]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

I'm part of the fanbase that would love to see the HERO lite rules (Sidekick' date=' Basic 6E Rulebook, whatever) combined with a fantasy setting in order to attract some folks over to HERO. Probably not titled "Fantasy HERO" as that is the genre book.[/quote']

 

Yep, we are standing side by side in the same crowd.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

I guess you have an IQ of 200 or something' date=' because I'm always flipping through books during a game. Even games that I've been running for years.[/quote']

 

I wish!

 

I have been playing Hero since the mid 80's so I am fairly familiar with the rules. However, even when we play our current Fantasy Hero game (which I am just a player) I still pull out a rule book now and then. It's mostly for clarifications on optional rules though.

[JmOz]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

I'm part of the fanbase that would love to see the HERO lite rules (Sidekick' date=' Basic 6E Rulebook, whatever) combined with a fantasy setting in order to attract some folks over to HERO. Probably not titled "Fantasy HERO" as that is the genre book.[/quote']

 

I have been pitching an idea similar to this for years

 

Basicaly it would be a two book system, Sidekick/Basic Rulebook, and a genre specific book

 

The Genre Specific Book, would have a common naming convention like Genre Sidekick, or now Basic Genre

 

Each one would include:

an overview of the Genre (about 1/4 of the book)

a new setting that could be included in the main setting of that genre (1/2 the book)

a group of power builds, protanginists, and antaginists (1/4 of the book)

 

Any rule not in the basic book (or sidekick) that was used would be include

in the sidebars

 

So an Example

Basic Fantacy - 96 pages

A review on Fantacy. Mainly about high fantacy (about 24 pages)

a new kingdom for your Turakian Age game (about 48 pages)

Grimoriam (6 pages)

Heroes of the Kindom, 6 starting level characters to use as NPC or PC's (6 pages)

12 pages of monsters and other badguys

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

I'm part of the fanbase that would love to see the HERO lite rules (Sidekick' date=' Basic 6E Rulebook, whatever) combined with a fantasy setting in order to attract some folks over to HERO.[/quote']

 

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think it would sell. Hero might be better served by selling a bundle that included the Basic Rulebook, Fantasy HERO, a spell book, and a monster book.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

It's an interesting idea' date=' but I don't think it would sell. Hero might be better served by selling a bundle that included the Basic Rulebook, Fantasy HERO, a spell book, and a monster book.[/quote']That would be a pretty expensive bundle. I think the concept of combining the basic rules with even part of a setting might do better. Keep it one book and price it around $25-30 and I think people will be willing to give the HERO system a try. Heck, you could even take a small portion of the Turakian Age and include a few monsters, a few spells, magic items, NPCs and maybe even a small adventure. Heck, I might even buy something like that in addition to everything else I plan on buying.

 

And Ultimate Genre bundles would also be cool.

[gojira]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

It's an interesting idea' date=' but I don't think it would sell. Hero might be better served by selling a bundle that included the Basic Rulebook, Fantasy HERO, a spell book, and a monster book.[/quote']

 

 

I agree. I'd like to see the 6e FH book be a little different from its current incarnation, but I don't think "all in one" is the right direction. There are too many books you'd need to get eventually that an all-in-one concept doesn't really help. People are used to buying more than one book anyway (from DnD's marketing, at least) and they now expect the greater detail and focus, which needs a full book to achieve.

 

One thing I think that would help is to break FH up into two smaller books. Like the 6e basic rules, I think a separate FH book and an Advanced FH book would work better. Basic rules and stuff go in the first book, more fiddly details and extended concepts go in the second.

 

I'd also like to see some mini settings, like Urban Fantasy, in the FH book. I think that would go a long way to mitigating the need for ever more books, by giving the players (and GM) something already worked out with FH.

[JmOz]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

I think of the all in one (actualy all in two), as a introduction with some cross selling potential

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

I think the concept of combining the basic rules with even part of a setting might do better. Keep it one book and price it around $25-30 and I think people will be willing to give the HERO system a try.

 

I think you underestimate how much the standalone book would cost to produce, and overestimate how many people might buy it. Even if there's no original material, it still needs to be edited, laid out, and printed. You're also aiming it at people who wouldn't buy the basic rules separately, which I suspect is a very small group. Conversely, a bundle is just another entry at the Hero Games store.

 

Mind you, I think the Hero System needs a turnkey fantasy setting. It just doesn't belong in the same book as the basic rules.

[gojira]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

Mind you' date=' I think the Hero System [i']needs[/i] a turnkey fantasy setting. It just doesn't belong in the same book as the basic rules.

 

I think if FH could be made more basic, had some mini settings, and then was bundled with the new basic rules, that could serve as a turnkey system. Unless Hero Games sees some big marketing opportunity (and they might with new people from Champions Online), I don't think a stand alone fantasy game would do that much for Hero Games. It might, but I'd be rather skeptical.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

Academic points really, as DoJ has never really mentioned any such plans. I think we see things differently and that's okay. It could be that Champions or something else would make a better genre to produce an all-in-one. I just see how popular fantasy is in general and think that might be the genre that stands the most chance of grabbing new blood. Perhaps seeing how well the recent all-in-one with that anime thing, PS something or another, sold would provide some insight into the viability of such a book.

[Tasha]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

I have been pitching an idea similar to this for years

 

Basicaly it would be a two book system, Sidekick/Basic Rulebook, and a genre specific book

 

The Genre Specific Book, would have a common naming convention like Genre Sidekick, or now Basic Genre

 

Each one would include:

an overview of the Genre (about 1/4 of the book)

a new setting that could be included in the main setting of that genre (1/2 the book)

a group of power builds, protanginists, and antaginists (1/4 of the book)

 

Any rule not in the basic book (or sidekick) that was used would be include

in the sidebars

 

So an Example

Basic Fantacy - 96 pages

A review on Fantacy. Mainly about high fantacy (about 24 pages)

a new kingdom for your Turakian Age game (about 48 pages)

Grimoriam (6 pages)

Heroes of the Kindom, 6 starting level characters to use as NPC or PC's (6 pages)

12 pages of monsters and other badguys

 

That's a nice idea and all. The real argument is will it really sell enough to at least break even with the printing costs? Also, will the time it takes Steve to edit down 3 books into your condensed genre book be worth the money it makes? Or would Steve's valuable time be better spent writing new Genre books that they have a sure audience for (ie guaranteed Sales)? Also it costs money to pay the layout guys to create said book.

 

Unfortunatly, it seems that the best way to get new players is for us fans to convert as many people as possible to Hero 6th. Also running Convention demos of Champions and Fantasy Hero also generate interest. Hero Basic Rules should also mitigate the sticker shock of purchasing the main rule books.

 

I think that Steve and Co. are doing the best they can with the limited resources at hand. We have to remember that the is one guy writing and editing all of these books. Even when they have guest writers, Steve ends up editing the books to make sure they are up to his standards. Hell, I am constantly amazed by the amount of material that one guy puts out in a year.

 

Tasha

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

PS238 and Lucha Libre HERO were both experiments by DOJ to test how "all in one" basic-rules-plus-setting/genre HERO books might sell generally. I expect the returns on those two books will be the deciding factor as to whether Hero Games goes ahead with more. As is often the case, the concept sounds great and persuasive in theory, but only hard numbers will tell if it works in practice.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

PS238 ...

THAT'S the one I was trying to remember. I suspect that, even if they sell well, a project like this is not going to be a priority. Not unless a whole bunch people contact Steve and tell him they would switch over to HERO if they had something like that available. Still, always nice to dream.

[danbuter1]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

PS238 and Lucha Libre HERO were both experiments by DOJ to test how "all in one" basic-rules-plus-setting/genre HERO books might sell generally. I expect the returns on those two books will be the deciding factor as to whether Hero Games goes ahead with more. As is often the case' date=' the concept sounds great and persuasive in theory, but only hard numbers will tell if it works in practice.[/quote']

 

Talk about 2 extreme fringe settings to test stuff out with. They should have done it with generic fantasy, as that is, and probably always will be, the most popular RPG genre.

[JmOz]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

or super heroes, as that is there bread and butter

[Tasha]

Re: Was Fantasy Hero 2nd ed self-contained? How was it?

 

or super heroes' date=' as that is there bread and butter[/quote']

 

I guess that's why they choose PS 238, which is a supers world with a reasonable following. It's also cute and more basic in scope which would fit a rules system build for beginners. I think the idea was to also capture younger gamers who might be looking for a new system.