"He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

[SSgt Baloo]

What "kinds" of bulletproof can you think of and how do you make it happen?

 

Back in 4th ed., you had to have 12 rPD to be minimally "bulletproof". You suffered no permanent harm from 2d6K or less. Of course, due to the stun lottery you might still be KO-ed or KS-ed (KO = Knock Out, KS = Knocked silly or "con stunned"). How much more does it take to be unphased by typical firearms?

 

(Extra credit: stat out the "bursting shell" that nothing short of can penetrate GA Superman's skin.)

[NestorDRod]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Well, as it has already been discussed in the Damage Negation thread, 12rPD with an additional 24 PD, Stun only, pretty much covers it for me.

 

But then, the flat "x3" modifier for KAs has been our group's House Rule for so long it's become the de facto standard.

 

It's become the base build for almost all my bricks.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

re: Superman

 

I think a 'bursting shell' of the time might be in the 3d6-5d6k range.

 

The word 'Bulletproof' has different meanings to different folks though.

Some might only take it to mean no permanent damage (no BODY) others might take it to mean no effect whatsoever (no STUN).

 

In the DCAU, whether in his own series or the Justice League, Superman appeared to feel pain from automatic weapons fire. He could be temporarily surprised and brought down by something like a 'mini-gun'. The trick was that he could later almost miraculously shrug off the pain and charge the gun and crush it. I tried to model this effect in my version of the character by having a couple of abilities in his Multipower that could push his total defenses up to ~40/30r. Otherwise his 'base' defenses were 25/20r.

 

17 6) Armor (10 PD/10 ED) (30 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Limited Power Not in the presence of Kryptonite or red solar radiation (-1/4) 0

6 7) Damage Resistance (10 PD/10 ED) (10 Active Points); Always On (-1/2), Limited Power Not in the presence of Kryptonite or red solar radiation (-1/4)

Notes: Combined with Armor and characteristics this makes his 'base' defenses 25/20r.

 

3u 5) More powerfull than a locamotive: Density Increase (7,000 kg mass, +30 STR, +6 PD/ED, -6" KB), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points); Limited Power Affected by Adjustments as an EC (-1/4), Limited Power Not in the presence of Kryptonite or red solar radiation (-1/4)

Notes: His 'base' STR is 45. His defenses become 31/20r when using this ability.

 

3u 9) The man of steel: Force Field (10 PD/10 ED) (Protect Carried Items), Invisible to Sight Group, SFX Only (+1/4), Costs END Only To Activate (+1/4) (45 Active Points); Limited Power Affected by Adjustments as an EC (-1/4), Limited Power Not in the presence of Kryptonite or red solar radiation (-1/4)

[Bloodstone]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Whereas in Superman Returns, Clark can bounce the bullets of the mini gun with no signs of discomfort and can take a .22 in the eye without even blinking...

 

Obviously, no Stun what was getting through even if you added damage for Hit Locations.

[Peregrine]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

1. What is the maximum damage that a bullet can do in the setting?

2. Decide if "bulletproof" means "takes no BODY" or "takes no STUN", the latter assuming the former as well.

3. Build the bulletproof character with sufficient defenses (rPD/DamNeg/DamRed) to achieve the result chosen in 2. when attacked by 1.

 

QED

[Bloodstone]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

1. What is the maximum damage that a bullet can do in the setting?

 

Easier said than done, as that can be quite variable if you have character that are weapon masters/martial artists that get added DC's from Maneuvers, Skill levels, MA DC's, Talents or Powers...

[Peregrine]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Easier said than done' date=' as that can be quite variable if you have character that are weapon masters/martial artists that get added DC's from Maneuvers, Skill levels, MA DC's, Talents or Powers...[/quote']

 

It's called a "damage cap": "no one in this campaign setting will ever do more than x DC with a firearm* by any means whatsoever".

 

*or whatever term you want to use for a "gun" that fires a "bullet"

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Whereas in Superman Returns, Clark can bounce the bullets of the mini gun with no signs of discomfort and can take a .22 in the eye without even blinking...

 

Bear in mind, that movie had plot elements referring back to the movies in which he survived a massive nuclear explosion, lifted a collapsing faultline back into place, and flew around the earth fast enough to rewind time... if he had shown any effects from bullet impacts I'd have thrown my drink at the screen.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

I know this idea ticks off at least one forumgoer, but ...

 

If you're running a 'high super' JLA/Avengers style game where mundane sources of damage, be it fire or bullets, simply shouldn't be able to hurt a superhuman, give all mundane sources of damage the limitation 'not vs superheroes', thusly enabling Superman's invulnerability, Cap's shield, and Batman's dodging to thwart a bunch of punk bankrobbers with ease.

[megaplayboy]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

simple rule: a 20mm weapon is a cannon, not a firearm. The largest caliber firearm/gun is probably the Russian KPV machine gun, 14.5mm--3d+1 KA, +1 Stun mult, about 12 Damage classes.

 

If you want a more typical firearm, 2d6 KA is a good level to peg it at--the aforementioned 12rPD, 24 PD, only vs. firearms(-1 or -1/2?), for 21 or 28 points seems likely to work pretty well.

For an "absolute" level of bulletproofness, 20rPD(double hardened), plus 60 PD(double hardened), for 67 or 90 points, should cover it.

[fbdaury]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

I will have to do this in 5th terms, as I have not 6th:

20rPD/rED armor plus 50%/50% r Damage reduction, only vs. Stun (-1/2): 100points, but slightly more than just bullet/fireproof

 

Modification: Upon realizing that I was going to use this on a character of my own design, I also noticed that there was another limitation on the damage reduction that makes sense for this sort of power: Does not reduce stun from attacks that do Body damage (-1/2), meaning if the attack did more than 20 body physical or energy, he's taking full stun.

[Peregrine]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

simple rule: a 20mm weapon is a cannon, not a firearm. The largest caliber firearm/gun is probably the Russian KPV machine gun, 14.5mm--3d+1 KA, +1 Stun mult, about 12 Damage classes.

 

If you want a more typical firearm, 2d6 KA is a good level to peg it at--the aforementioned 12rPD, 24 PD, only vs. firearms(-1 or -1/2?), for 21 or 28 points seems likely to work pretty well.

For an "absolute" level of bulletproofness, 20rPD(double hardened), plus 60 PD(double hardened), for 67 or 90 points, should cover it.

 

Actually, to figure in the aforementioned DC adders, I'd peg it at 4d6K, maybe 5d6K depending on the overall power level of the campaign. That'd be 12-15 DC.

 

To keep a "bulletproof" character from being "undamageable" (unless the latter is the GM-approved SFX), I'd probably require that some of the defenses be "only physical" (rPD, DamNeg/DamRed vs. physical), if not "only vs. 'bullets'".

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Why not go the easy route and by Desolid vs. "x" attack ? Or some people I've seen that if 75% dmg red res = 60 pts them 100% = 75 pts. Apparently if you look at the progression of dmg red res, its by 15 pts which is where they get there calculation.

[Jhamin]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Why not go the easy route and by Desolid vs. "x" attack ? Or some people I've seen that if 75% dmg red res = 60 pts them 100% = 75 pts. Apparently if you look at the progression of dmg red res' date=' its by 15 pts which is where they get there calculation.[/quote']

 

Because this would not allow you to stand in front of someone to shield them from bullets. They would go right through you!

[Certified]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

As a general rule of thumb for the super brick type something along the lines of 35-40 PD with around 25 rPD and a 50% Damage Reduction and a Recovery around 20 and a total Stun to back that up. Should cover all but the worst case attacks from firearms and only slow them down when hit by larger things like artillery.

 

Assuming a worst case shot from a large handgun 2d6k, 12 Body and 66 Stun (Let's just give it the +1 Stun modifier) They would be looking at 13 Stun Damage and assuming lightning strikes twice in a turn even with a single recovery they would only be down 6 Stun.

 

Additionally, if you really wanted to spike the numbers beyond this go with something like +4-8 DCV defined as Shrugging off Damage. So although by the rules they dodged the attack the appearance is that it they simply ignored it.

[NestorDRod]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Additionally' date=' if you really wanted to spike the numbers beyond this go with something like +4-8 DCV defined as Shrugging off Damage. So although by the rules they dodged the attack the appearance is that it they simply ignored it.[/quote']

 

I had forgotten about that concept for DCV. I've seen it used for a couple of character to represent the "it doesn't do any damage" as opposed to "it didn't hit." Good call.

[megaplayboy]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Additionally, if you really wanted to spike the numbers beyond this go with something like +4-8 DCV defined as Shrugging off Damage. So although by the rules they dodged the attack the appearance is that it they simply ignored it.

 

I usually take extra DCV with Fully Invisible Sfx on it to represent this, though perhaps that's unnecessary. That has the small problem that the character may still be vulnerable to a widely dispersed shotgun blast(if it's wide enough to be considered AoE, anyway). So you then need something like Reduction to cover AoE as well.

 

The fun part about the system is there's a wide variety of ways to simulate nigh-invulnerability, and each has its merits.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Because this would not allow you to stand in front of someone to shield them from bullets. They would go right through you!

 

Good point, but I'll have to look up where in the rules I saw this idea because you don't actullay turn desolid in the traditional sense if you by it as an invulnerability.

[Vulcan]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

This is one of the places where 6E has the simplest solution.

 

Take the 'bulletproof' brick. Give him high-average PD (say, 35ish in a 12d6 game). That will bounce a 2d6 RKA outright. Then add Damage Negation 'only vs. bullets' (-1 in all except heavy-gunfire Iron Age settings) for another 6 Damage classes. That covers everything, including .50 BMG / 14.7 Soviet HMGs (which might inflict a stun or two at most).

 

Now you're bulletproof, without requiring unbalancing levels of PD.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Also don't forget from Dark Champions 4th Con with the limitation only vs stun (-1/2). i use this for Martial Artists so they can take each other hits without buying up too much PD. and don't forget about the Brick trick of using the Force wall.

[Certified]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

I usually take extra DCV with Fully Invisible Sfx on it to represent this, though perhaps that's unnecessary. That has the small problem that the character may still be vulnerable to a widely dispersed shotgun blast(if it's wide enough to be considered AoE, anyway). So you then need something like Reduction to cover AoE as well.

 

The fun part about the system is there's a wide variety of ways to simulate nigh-invulnerability, and each has its merits.

 

I don't think you need invisible Special Effects since the effect is the bullets are being stopped/flattened on the character's body. As for the Spreading shotgun this is in addition to the other defenses so assuming the blast has been spread that should drop the DCs in the attack if I understand it correctly. Going below 2d6k or 12 DCs doing any damage to this character becomes rather squiffy.

 

Edit: Assuming the rest of that uber brick build.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

I know this idea ticks off at least one forumgoer, but ...

 

If you're running a 'high super' JLA/Avengers style game where mundane sources of damage, be it fire or bullets, simply shouldn't be able to hurt a superhuman, give all mundane sources of damage the limitation 'not vs superheroes', thusly enabling Superman's invulnerability, Cap's shield, and Batman's dodging to thwart a bunch of punk bankrobbers with ease.

 

Essentially this already exists, and I've used it extensively in my supers campaigns. Virtually every real-world, historical, or sci-fi weapon written up for non-supers Fifth Edition source books has the Limitation, Real Weapon. Part of that Lim is explicitly that it can't harm items it "realistically" could not, no matter what number is rolled on the damage dice -- like a knife gouging tank armor. It's easy to designate a Defense threshold beyond which Real Weapons won't have any effect, or reduced effect; or have them only do full damage to Defenses that are bought with the flipside Limitation, Real Armor (which is what I often do in my campaigns.)

 

With this approach you don't have to rewrite all the published material to make supers more resistant to mundane weaponry.

[Peregrine]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

Essentially this already exists' date=' and I've used it extensively in my supers campaigns. Virtually every real-world, historical, or sci-fi weapon written up for non-supers Fifth Edition source books has the Limitation, [i']Real Weapon.[/i] Part of that Lim is explicitly that it can't harm items it "realistically" could not, no matter what number is rolled on the damage dice -- like a knife gouging tank armor. It's easy to designate a Defense threshold beyond which Real Weapons won't have any effect, or reduced effect; or have them only do full damage to Defenses that are bought with the flipside Limitation, Real Armor (which is what I often do in my campaigns.)

 

With this approach you don't have to rewrite all the published material to make supers more resistant to mundane weaponry.

 

I don't think I've seen this written so elegantly - and an elegant solution it is.

 

One detail: Real Weapon vs. super Defenses - half damage, or none?

 

Another: super Attack vs. Real Armor - half Defenses?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

I don't think I've seen this written so elegantly - and an elegant solution it is.

 

One detail: Real Weapon vs. super Defenses - half damage, or none?

 

In my campaigns the Real Weapons do half damage against "super Defenses," unless the BODY Damage can't exceed the total Resistant Defense of the target with the highest possible roll of the dice. In that case the attack does no damage, BODY, STUN, or Knockback/Knockdown. I find this works great for the classic comic-book scenario of the powerful brick wading through a hail of gunfire without flinching. And IMHO it's a fair restriction for a -1/4 Limitation.

 

FWIW it also justifies all those super-agencies using high-tech blasters (which in Hero books aren't built with Real Weapon) rather than realistic weaponry of comparable Damage Class; they're more effective against superhuman opposition.

 

Another: super Attack vs. Real Armor - half Defenses?

 

As if the attack were Armor Piercing against the Real Armor Defenses -- yes, that's how I do it. Note that all the published non-super body armor write-ups use Real Armor.

[Peregrine]

Re: "He's bulletproof", "Fireproof", etc.

 

In my campaigns the Real Weapons do half damage against "super Defenses' date='" unless the BODY Damage can't exceed the total Resistant Defense of the target with the highest possible roll of the dice. In that case the attack does [b']no[/b] damage, BODY, STUN, or Knockback/Knockdown. I find this works great for the classic comic-book scenario of the powerful brick wading through a hail of gunfire without flinching. And IMHO it's a fair restriction for a -1/4 Limitation.

 

FWIW it also justifies all those super-agencies using high-tech blasters (which in Hero books aren't built with Real Weapon) rather than realistic weaponry of comparable Damage Class; they're more effective against superhuman opposition.

 

 

 

As if the attack were Armor Piercing against the Real Armor Defenses -- yes, that's how I do it. Note that all the published non-super body armor write-ups use Real Armor.

 

Very, very elegant... thanks!