Markdoc Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Makes sense. Big problem would be if it wasn't used as soon as it was collected. Any storage at that tech level is probably not going to be pure methane, but an explosive mixture of methane and air. Actually, having worked at sewerage works that collected methane and then burned it for power, it's actually rather complicated to get methane that will burn: you need a fairly concentrated source, which means you need both the right bacteria and a slurry, and then normally you need to be able to deliver the right mix of methane and air. If they knew what they doing, that's probably within the range of a sophisticated iron-age culture (use whale gut compressors like a giant bellows to extract the methane from a slurry chamber and control the mixing) but it is starting to sound more steampunk than RE Howard, to me. Probably better just to do what many cultures do - use the waste as fertiliser and use your dried plant remnants and fish oil for fire. cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Actually, having worked at sewerage works that collected methane and then burned it for power, it's actually rather complicated to get methane that will burn: you need a fairly concentrated source, which means you need both the right bacteria and a slurry, and then normally you need to be able to deliver the right mix of methane and air. If they knew what they doing, that's probably within the range of a sophisticated iron-age culture (use whale gut compressors like a giant bellows to extract the methane from a slurry chamber and control the mixing) but it is starting to sound more steampunk than RE Howard, to me. Probably better just to do what many cultures do - use the waste as fertiliser and use your dried plant remnants and fish oil for fire. cheers, Mark I agree. Its a step beyond where I want to take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? I agree. Its a step beyond where I want to take it. Yeah, I said that sadly, though, because the thought of a grey and dismal shore with a stone-walled village, smoke drifting from the shaled roofs and off to one side, the methane derricks creaking in the wind .... is kind of evocative. I might even steal the idea for my own game. But it doesn't say "Iron-thewed barbarian", to me, especially since people capable of that level of sophistication would be capable of building small lighter than air craft. As an aside, some cultures in my own fantasy game do build lighter than air craft. They're called "dragon ships" because of what happens if you hit one with a flaming arrow cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Yeah' date=' I said that sadly, though, because the thought of a grey and dismal shore with a stone-walled village, smoke drifting from the shaled roofs and off to one side, the methane derricks creaking in the wind .... is kind of evocative. I might even steal the idea for my own game. But it doesn't say "Iron-thewed barbarian", to me, especially since people capable of that level of sophistication would be capable of building small lighter than air craft. As an aside, some cultures in my own fantasy game [b']do[/b] build lighter than air craft. They're called "dragon ships" because of what happens if you hit one with a flaming arrow cheers, Mark I have one michaelangelo style character who might be capable of such anachronisms as story-devices, but I don't want it to be normative for the settling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? And of course with methane, you have a chance for big explosions! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Fairbanks gets into the 70's (F) in the summer, and that's on top of permafrost. See no reason why a deglaciated Antarctica can't do that. Depending on how low tech is low tech, if your inhabitants can make glass greehouses and cold frame could extend your growing season, start plants inside and transplant them after the last killing frost. Yeah, I knew it got surprisingly warm there in the summer, didnt realize it quite that warm though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted December 20, 2009 Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Well, Panpiper inspired the Thundarr reference when he mentioned "rogue extra solar moon". Yeah, I started hearing the Thundarr opening theme music (and narrator) about halfway into the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Yeah' date=' I knew it got surprisingly warm there in the summer, didnt realize it quite that warm though.[/quote'] It doesm't have antarctica's winds, however, which impacts temperature as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? It doesm't have antarctica's winds' date=' however, which impacts temperature as well.[/quote'] True. But, when you think of Alaska you dont generally think of 70 degree weather at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? This thread just sort of lead me (by terribly circuitous thoughts) to research how to manufacture calcium carbide. Which, it turns out, pretty much requires electricity, so it's out for this setting, but it occurred to me that it's one of those useful post apoc tidbits. Hmmm.... I wonder how long a can of "Fire rocks" could stay viable while entombed in ice.... Magic Item! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Yeah' date=' I knew it got surprisingly warm there in the summer, didnt realize it quite that warm though.[/quote'] I spent an excellent holiday well north of Fairbanks in the ANWR (about 2 hours flying time north of Fairbanks to Arctic Village, then swap all your gear to a smaller plane, followed by another couple of hours flying north over the Brooks Range). Even up there, on the north slope, the temperature was well up into the 80's (Fahrenheit: this was late June). However, location has a major effect - as we travelled down out the mountains, the lower we got (in altitude) the colder it got. That's because we were getting closer to the Arctic ocean. We started our trip out of the mountains in shorts and T-shirts and I still recall sun-baking myself on the warm stones in the upper part of the mountains. A couple of weeks later we were wearing heavy cold weather gear and passing between snow drifts and ice floes 2-3 metres high, as we approached the coast. Alaska (any high latitude place, really) has extreme temperature variations, even during the summer. cheers, M ark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? It doesm't have antarctica's winds' date=' however, which impacts temperature as well.[/quote'] Yep. See my post above. The coast - which is probably where you want to be for fishing - is likely to be significantly colder for much of the year than the interior. You might end up with nomadic shepherds who spend the worst of the winter by the coast, sheltering in the coastal villages, but then head towards sheltered inland pastures as soon as spring comes, returning with their flocks in early winter: bringing fresh meat and milk back just as the fishing season closes out. I'm thinking festival time as the shepherds bring meat - that needs to be slaughtered and hung up to be freeze-dried or frozen for winter storage, plus news of other villages. The cots used to shelter the remaining herd animals during winter could be used as storage and for fish-gutting and salting houses during the summer ..... which means they are probably placed well away from the rest of the village cheers, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? I do plan to post more material to this thread at some point. I'm still settling into my new job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Obvious Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Bump... Looking forward to more info...this is a very interesting setting you're cooking up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted February 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Bump... Looking forward to more info...this is a very interesting setting you're cooking up. I'm pretty much settled into my job now. This has been/was a rough draft/brainstorming thread. I had some issues on the economic/demographic level that bothered me and requires some thought. Basically, everything here requires an edit/rework. Once I'm through with the unusual life cycle thread I'll put the two together in a more coherent, concrete form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirgos Posted February 18, 2010 Report Share Posted February 18, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Don't have a link or anything but I remember one of the episodes of Walking with Dinosaurs (BBC) described a possible forested Antartica, complete with "hibernating" dinosaurs (in the dark months). If this was true (I don't believe everything TV tells me (cos a TV show told me not to) it could expand the vegetation types available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Weapon Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? There were dinosaurs in Antartica in the Cretaceous. It was warm enough for cold blooded creatures. from wikipedia.org http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Polar_dinosaurs "These studies show that during the Cretaceous there were no polar ice caps, and forests would have extended all the way to the South Pole, and life could have flourished there during the summer. However, the Earth's axial tilt means that the regions inside the Antarctic circle would still have experienced a polar night: a period of sunless darkness and cold of up to six months, during which only the hardiest life forms could survive. This combination of a habitable terrain with a long polar night is an ecological circumstance that has no present day analogue." Vitamin D is a problem for humans under these conditions. Perhaps I don't know how long you can go without sunlight before it becomes a problem. Maybe if you eat a lot of stuff with Vitamin D in it you can last for the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Fascinating stuff, Vondy. Have you considered the possibility that the cataclysm destroying human civilization might have been due to a massive increase of volcanic activity, or that vulcanism might have been a side effect of it? Antarctica has a couple of active volcanoes and several inactive ones, so much greater geological activity on the continent is certainly a possibility. Volcanic flows result in soil enrichment, which is one reason people keep living close to them. They can also produce obsidian, a very valuable tool-making material in cultures where metalworking is unknown or metals are scarce. Another result could be widespread hot water springs and steam vents in several regions, similar to Iceland. As in that country they would be very helpful in heating the cavern dwellings you postulate for your civilization, or making above-ground homes more livable. They could also power some anachronistic technological survivals in parts of Antarctica, like steam engines, hydroponic farming, or even geothermal electricity generation, which is very commonly used in contemporary Iceland. Another interesting possibility would be postcataclysmic geological shifts diverting the Antarctic Circumpolar Current which keeps warmer ocean waters away from Antarctica. That could justify a warmer climate on the continent without necessarily radically raising the temperature of the rest of the world. In fact, such a shift might bring a warm water current to part of the coast, similar to the Gulf Stream which ameliorates the climate of northwestern Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSgt Baloo Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Finally! My google-fu isn't as waek as I had feared. Behold: PLANETOCOPIA! I'd take a look at: Seapole's Ornithia Shiveria's Tropica Jareda's Tropica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSword Posted March 17, 2010 Report Share Posted March 17, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? South Georgia Island is a bit away from the mainland, but the map shows the krill density in the waters surrounding the antarctic peninsula, as well as some nice pictures of the ruins of the whaling station. Gives at least some idea of the critters that live down that way. http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2009/12/south-georgia/brower-text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DusterBoy Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? The SAS and SBS had to conduct some of their most arduous missions on South Georgia and the Falkland Islands during that war. For an account, I suggest you read "Who Dares Wins" by Tony Gerraghty, which covers them in some complete detail. Cold was their number one enemy, followed by the Argentine military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? The SAS and SBS had to conduct some of their most arduous missions on South Georgia and the Falkland Islands during that war. For an account' date=' I suggest you read "Who Dares Wins" by Tony Gerraghty, which covers them in some complete detail. Cold was their number one enemy, followed by the Argentine military.[/quote'] IIRC, that war was one of the few instances of two opposing armies using the same weapon; the FN FAL. But I digress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibear Posted March 18, 2010 Report Share Posted March 18, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? Cold was their number one enemy' date=' followed by the Argentine military.[/quote'] Losing the boat carrying most of the choppers didn't do us any favours either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcamtar Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? According to this article, 250 million years ago Antarctica had significant forests. And despite continental drift, at that time the continent was located approximately where it is now. http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20041101/leaves.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcamtar Posted March 19, 2010 Report Share Posted March 19, 2010 Re: Postapocalytpic Antarctica (Problems/Questions)? This thread is just begging for someone to post this: Bal Sagoth - In Search of the Lost Cities of Antarctica (Even if you don't care for the music, the images are cool.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.