How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

[Greywind]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

This is the crux of the dichotomy on this thread. Two conceptions of what is meant by "the rules" which don't appear to be reconcilable. If the horse isn't alive by this point' date=' I seriously doubt beating it any further will animate it. [/quote']...but you can regenerate it into a vampiric horse...

[Panpiper]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

...but you can regenerate it into a vampiric horse...

 

No... No... You 'transform' it into a vampiric horse!

 

;-)

[dmjalund]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

I think this is what we've been getting at. the rules as written says you can't Tranform a dead being into a living being. So we transform it into a dead vampire being (dead vampire beings don't heal back BECAUSE THEY ARE DEAD) THEN you use resurrection to turn it into a living (or technically undead) vampire being.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

This is the crux of the dichotomy on this thread. Two conceptions of what is meant by "the rules" which don't appear to be reconcilable. If the horse isn't alive by this point' date=' I seriously doubt beating it any further will animate it. [/quote']

 

Meh.

 

I reference: Hero System Sixth Edtion, Combat And Adventuring Chapter Ten "Changing The System" pp 296-305. For added bang, "Adapting The Rules To Your Game" p 298

Defense rests.

[Lucius]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

I think this is what we've been getting at. the rules as written says you can't Tranform a dead being into a living being. So we transform it into a dead vampire being (dead vampire beings don't heal back BECAUSE THEY ARE DEAD) THEN you use resurrection to turn it into a living (or technically undead) vampire being.

 

That point's been made before, and I keep forgetting it.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks I should make a handy chart to keep track of all the arguments

[Sidetrack]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Transform is clearly the power that is supposed to model this (at least my conception of a vampire transformation)' date=' but that bizarre heal back requirement means you have to change the rules to make it work. I'm not as fond of that as others.[/quote']

 

If that's the remaining hangup with Transform, a few reasonable heal back conditions have been suggested. My personal preference for generic vampire heal back would be:

 

Divine, Infernal or appropriately powerful supernatural intervention,

death or destruction,

successful transform to a Human (very rare power requiring appropriate concept)

(concurrent with) successful Transform to other supernatural being (No vampire-zombie or vampire-werewolf hybrids),

and incomplete transforms heal normally

Note: Vampiric immortality does not extend human life i.e. a 300year old vampire will be healed to the 200 year old corpse of a 100 year old human.

 

That is a list of rare and incovenient conditions, but arguably they add up to what they need to be: a reasonable set of healing conditions that IMHO fit the generic concept of a vampire very well.

 

[...]kill the character first then transform the corpse. Inanimate objects/dead things do not heal transform damage You're not supposed to give or take life with Transform but you are not - you start with a corpse and end with a vampire - which is still' date=' technically, dead, although animate.[/quote']

 

This also fits my concept of a generic vampire, but if it's not Twilightish so be it, don't use it. I'm sure there are some conditions of a modern non-religious Twilight vampire that would fit the bill that you could apply.

 

As I see it, Hero Rules try to impose balance on your game so strict adherence keeps you from creating an unbalanced situation. If you're having trouble fitting your concept to the rules, check it to see if it unbalances things and make your peace with that.

[Lucius]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

 

I think others on page 7 went into resurrection. I don't even grasp how that remotely works, so I don't have a rebuttal.

 

Like this

 

Raise Vampire: Healing BODY 6d6 (standard effect: 18 points), Resurrection, Side Effects (Side Effect only affects the recipient of the benefits of the Power; rises as a vampire; +0) (80 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Minute, -1 1/2), Conditional Power Must have drained blood from the victim three times on three consecutive nights. (-1), Resurrection Only (-1/2), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Lose 1 BOD Drained that doesn't recover for 5 years; -1/2), Limited Power Only Heals to 50% positive BOD (-1/4) Real Cost: 17

 

Basically, Varney the Vampire kills Veronica Victim, then Resurrects her, but the Resurrecting Power has a Side Effect that means the raised person comes back as a vampire. The Side Effect isn't worth anything as a Limitation because from the vampire's point of view (and he's paying for it) it's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

Transform is clearly the power that is supposed to model this (at least my conception of a vampire transformation), but that bizarre heal back requirement means you have to change the rules to make it work. I'm not as fond of that as others.

 

And I'm coming around to thinking maybe you were right the first time. All you really have to do to make it work is define the heal back as "normal healing" (which means if you can keep Veronica Victim away from Varney the Vampire after he's started by before the change is complete, for a long enough time, she recovers and Varney needs to start over) but ensure that a vampire's healing isn't "normal," that is, put a Limitation (perhaps -0) on REC and Healing and whatever else the vampire has that is used for healing, that says it can't undo the Transformation. Or even do what I've already seen for Mental Transforms, where the only "healback" is defined as ANOTHER Transformation.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks vampires are a pain in the necks.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Human to vampire: Severe Transform 1d6, Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Limited Power (Doesn't keep on adding new powers but total does accumulate for healing purposes) (37 Active Points)

 

BODY+100 points (say) go to transforming the character into a vampire with additional abilities, the rest, well...thing is, whilst it CAN be healed back, it keeps on accumulating, so it is likely to take a VERY long time to 'untransform'.

 

Think about it: you get bitten, over the course of a day and a night (24 hours) the 'transform total' (assuming even a SPD 2) would be 50400, which, even if you applied whatever it takes to 'break' the uncontrolled would still take 420 years to heal back if you have a REC of 10. Maybe that is why new vamps spend time in the coffin

 

You could also adapt this to allow very old vamps to gain new powers. Effectively what you have here is an infection that keeps on going. Bear in mind that, even if the curse is 'broken' it is going to take a VERY long time for you to stop being a vampire and that is assuming you do not get re-infected before you become human again.

 

There you go, that works.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

OK, technically that doesn't work because you don;t have to heal the 'damage rolled' just the damage that transformed you...so we change it slightly to make the transform ongoing...

 

Severe Transform 1d6 (Victim to vampire, Healing Body), Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Partial Transform (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (45 Active Points)

 

As it is a partial transform you should have to heal back everything rolled. That's a silly rule anyway, given that you can chose how you untransform. Still...this does allow you to build vampires that are constantly getting more powerful as they get older more easily.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

I suppose you could have a normal transform with the 'heal back' condition being a stake through the heart. Then you'd stop being a vamp and become a human - with a stake through your heart

[ghost-angel]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

I suppose you could have a normal transform with the 'heal back' condition being a stake through the heart. Then you'd stop being a vamp and become a human - with a stake through your heart

 

Apparently that (or the similar Death = Heal Back) clause failed some test. What test, I dunno, but it failed.

[Sean Waters]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Apparently that (or the similar Death = Heal Back) clause failed some test. What test' date=' I dunno, but it failed.[/quote']

 

Transform isn't supposed to be fatal, and I suppose that kinda makes it fatal

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

To add to the thought mix...

OK, so you can't transform something dead into something living.... But most Vampire builds include Regeneration with the Resurrection Adder. So Transform the Dead Human into a Dead Vampire and let it's own Regen bring the new Vamp back

[ghost-angel]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Transform isn't supposed to be fatal' date=' and I suppose that kinda makes it fatal [/quote']

 

Except that Major Transform (15pts/D6) is modeled exactly on Killing Damage as "Changing something fundamentally you might as well kill it" is even the reasoning given. So.. in a way, it is supposed to be fatal.

 

And it's not the Transform that's fatal, so that's a non-issue anyways, IMO.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Oh hell! If the campaign calls for it, just say that a human killing a human results in death, but a vampire killing a human results in vampirism (or results in vampirism IF vampire is fed blood or whatever special conditions apply). Really the transformation could be seen as either positive or negative from the vampire's point of view, depending on whether the new vampire is compelled or tied somehow to its creator, or is simply the cost of killing someone, or whatever.

 

Or write it up as any of the above. They would all work. Remember there's rarely only one right way to do a given thing.

 

You guys worry WAY too much!

[jtelson]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Human to vampire: Severe Transform 1d6, Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Limited Power (Doesn't keep on adding new powers but total does accumulate for healing purposes) (37 Active Points)

 

BODY+100 points (say) go to transforming the character into a vampire with additional abilities, the rest, well...thing is, whilst it CAN be healed back, it keeps on accumulating, so it is likely to take a VERY long time to 'untransform'.

 

Think about it: you get bitten, over the course of a day and a night (24 hours) the 'transform total' (assuming even a SPD 2) would be 50400, which, even if you applied whatever it takes to 'break' the uncontrolled would still take 420 years to heal back if you have a REC of 10. Maybe that is why new vamps spend time in the coffin

 

You could also adapt this to allow very old vamps to gain new powers. Effectively what you have here is an infection that keeps on going. Bear in mind that, even if the curse is 'broken' it is going to take a VERY long time for you to stop being a vampire and that is assuming you do not get re-infected before you become human again.

 

There you go, that works.

 

Add a Side Effect (The Same Transform but to Self) to the Vampire's Bite Attack - and require using the bite to feed - Reduces the Template cost a little and keeps the well fed vampire a vampire?

[jtelson]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

...or maybe a susceptibility to feeding that maintains the transform...

[kahuna's bro]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

it thoughtof someting,he nota twilight vampire but if someone has the stats for MICK ST. JAMES the vampire hero of the tvseries MOONLIGHT if yousaw THEM would that help you build an apropriate template?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

k-b, I suspect that Pamela isn't responding to this thread any more. She's explained her position and appears to have moved on. It's now just a bunch of HEROphiles engaged in that most time-honored pursuit in our community, debating permutations of the system.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

i see

[Sean Waters]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Just because we've scared off the OP with our overenthusiasm is no reason to stop. Is it?

 

[Lord Liaden]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Never said it was.

[Lucius]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Just because we've scared off the OP with our overenthusiasm is no reason to stop. Is it?

 

 

I'd even come around to the position that she was "right the first time" and Transform is the Power to use.

 

Which doesn't mean I'm not interested in the alternatives.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary thinks vampires are a pain in the necks.

[ghost-angel]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

I think for any campaign where a PC is going to become a Vampire, or control a Vampire - then yes. Transform is the Power to use (IMO).

 

but, for games where you want more of a Plot Device Control aspect to it, i.e. it's of more use in driving the story than it is part of the campaign world, then the Resurrection idea is really neat. Especially if it's just a reason for a (to borrow a Champions concept) 'radiation accident' more than anything else.

[prestidigitator]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

The way you do this is as follows. Vampires do not have the ability to transform other people into more vampires. Rather, every normal human in the campaign world has an Everyman Healing Resurrection that brings them back to life, but with a permanent Side Effect and limited to only work under a very special condition: being killed by a vampire's blood drain (and optionally being fed some of the vampire's own blood or whatever the source material warrants).

 

There. Problem solved. You don't even have to build it into the vampire, so there are a few extra points to spend on some kind of awesome mist form or something.