How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

[PamelaIsley]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Thanks to Panpiper for his wonderful template. It was a great help, combined with Stalker in News of the World.

 

Edit: Nothing else to say.

[tarragon]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

I can't come up with enough offsets for a Twilight vampire.

 

Whatever method you use you're going to have problems adding that much power with out limitations. I think you're going to have to step outside the mechanics to do it well. There are a few possibilities that i see:

 

• If this is applied to an NPC you simply give it to them in the interest of the story. You build NPCs to match what they should do, so just do it.
  
• Applied to a PC treat it like a radiation accident. If they have banked XP they spend it to do this. If you know ahead of time that this is coming up have the player set aside XP pay for it. Finally if this comes up and the PC does not have enough banked XP start docking them XP until it is payed for.
  
• 100+ points is a lot to bank and/or payoff. You may have to just give it to them in the interest of the story. If everyone is having fun it's OK to have imbalanced power ratios. This is hard to do though and requires a good GM and good players.
  
• If this is a major point in the campaign and is known from the start. Start the character(s) who will be transformed on less points. Once the transform happens everyone is at or near the same power level.
  

 

Good luck.

[Panpiper]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

100+ points is a lot to bank and/or payoff.

 

I might recommend: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/76575-Subsidized-Buy-in-Subsidized-Hold-Back

 

If a player earns 3 XP per game and banks it all for 13 games in the system linked, thy will have 100 character points in their GM XP pool.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Teeth (HKA 1d6, 3d6 with STR, Penetrating +1/2, 0 End +1/2, +1 Increased Stun +1/4, Must have Target in Grab -1 1/2); (10)

I'm pretty sure the damage of a kill attack can only by doubled by strength

further moire the 3d6 will kill normals possibly decapitating them

[ghost-angel]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

I'm pretty sure the damage of a kill attack can only by doubled by strength

further moire the 2d5 kill bill will kill normals possibly decapitating them

 

6E removed the doubling rule as a default and made it an optional rule.

[Matt Holck]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

ya someone else else edited my post above

check the ip addresses of my entries please

I have two

 

well there's gonna be a lot of filtering advantage multiplication

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Just define the heal-back/reversal requirement as "an extremely obscure magic ritual performed by a coven of white mages"--it will almost certainly never come up in game' date=' and in the unfortunate circumstance that one's DNPC is transformed into a vampire, the heroes have an interesting quest on their hands.[/quote']

 

My favorite idea is this: Reversal condition: take this stick, wave it around in the air, then break it over your knee. Except that as soon as I've got the guy transformed, the stick goes into a wood chipper, and the chips burned into ash.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Whatever method you use you're going to have problems adding that much power with out limitations. I think you're going to have to step outside the mechanics to do it well. There are a few possibilities that i see:

 

• If this is applied to an NPC you simply give it to them in the interest of the story. You build NPCs to match what they should do, so just do it.
  
• Applied to a PC treat it like a radiation accident. If they have banked XP they spend it to do this. If you know ahead of time that this is coming up have the player set aside XP pay for it. Finally if this comes up and the PC does not have enough banked XP start docking them XP until it is payed for.
  
• 100+ points is a lot to bank and/or payoff. You may have to just give it to them in the interest of the story. If everyone is having fun it's OK to have imbalanced power ratios. This is hard to do though and requires a good GM and good players.
  
• If this is a major point in the campaign and is known from the start. Start the character(s) who will be transformed on less points. Once the transform happens everyone is at or near the same power level.
  

 

Good luck.

 

Well, not exactly.

 

Bear in mind, I'm still working from a 5th edition frame of reference here, so 6ED compliance will have to be checked, but as the root problem, mechanically speaking, is that the character is suddenly jumping up a bunch of points, there are two rules legal approaches I can think of, both mentioned here previously.

 

Transform is the obvious first choice... there's that oft overlooked aspect of Transform where it can add points in the course of the transformation. In 5th it's +5 Points per extra target Body, used for adding things like Wings and Claws, but with as much utility for other things. This does shift the build tho... Rather than an All or Nothing aimed at a low target number for a mostly drained out victim, you will have a base target Body equal to the points in your Vampire Package/5. I'd probably do this as a Continuous 1d6 Transform (possibly Uncontrolled). Thus a single application of the attack will eventually Transform the target, but there will be some variation in the time the change takes. This is my preferred model.

 

The Summon approach would be a legal way as well, just make sure that the max points you can Summon are well above what you'd prepare for as the max point level you'd expect a real human character to hit, add the points for the Vampire package and Bob's yer uncle. Don't even need a new sheet for the newly "Summoned" vampire unless you're going to be pruning off a lot of bits that might not translate to the new form (for example, in a lot of settings removing Faith based Powers upon conversion). Summon does have the pesky wearing off/number of tasks bit, however. Not to mention the "Specific Target" and Loyalty advantages make it a not cheap approach. Once again, could fit depending on your personal style of Vampirisim.

 

I'm pretty sure you could work it with Duplication as well, but that's WAY too messy for my tastes.

 

Oh, and by the by, in general reference to the overall thread, I'm kinda surprised no one mentioned the Vampire Template in 5th FH. While distinctly different that what I've heard of Twilight Vampires, it could still lend a few benchmarks. It's worth noting that after disads it's still a +91 point Package, and it doesn't include any Stat increases, and yeah... Vampire Packages are a heap buncha points to drop on all at once, pretty much no matter how you write 'em or what sub-genre type you're aiming for.

[torchwolf]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Transform is the obvious first choice... there's that oft overlooked aspect of Transform where it can add points in the course of the transformation. In 5th it's +5 Points per extra target Body' date=' used for adding things like Wings and Claws, but with as much utility for other things. This does shift the build tho... Rather than an All or Nothing aimed at a low target number for a mostly drained out victim, you will have a base target Body equal to the points in your Vampire Package/5. I'd probably do this as a Continuous 1d6 Transform (possibly Uncontrolled). Thus a single application of the attack will eventually Transform the target, but there will be some variation in the time the change takes. This is my preferred model.[/quote']

I like this best as well, and that is how I would build most vampires in my main campaign, plus I like to use the Partial Transform advantage to simulate how it can take place gradually, as in some source material where the victim gains a few abilities at a time with an increased aversion to sunlight and a growing appetite for blood (and an abnormal interest in glaring wantonly at jugular arteries).

 

The Summon approach would be a legal way as well' date=' just make sure that the max points you can Summon are well above what you'd prepare for as the max point level you'd expect a real human character to hit, add the points for the Vampire package and Bob's yer uncle. Don't even need a new sheet for the newly "Summoned" vampire unless you're going to be pruning off a lot of bits that might not translate to the new form (for example, in a lot of settings removing Faith based Powers upon conversion). Summon does have the pesky wearing off/number of tasks bit, however. Not to mention the "Specific Target" and Loyalty advantages make it a not cheap approach. Once again, could fit depending on your personal style of Vampirisim.[/quote']

It should not be ruled out entirely even if you pick another preferred option for the campaign - it is useful for some concepts. There are many kinds of vampires, after all.

 

I'm pretty sure you could work it with Duplication as well' date=' but that's WAY too messy for my tastes.[/quote']

Agreed, I'm not sure I'd want to go that road more than the way of EDM to dimension where character is a vampire.

 

Oh' date=' and by the by, in general reference to the overall thread, I'm kinda surprised no one mentioned the Vampire Template in 5th FH. While distinctly different that what I've heard of Twilight Vampires, it could still lend a few benchmarks. It's worth noting that after disads it's still a +91 point Package, and it doesn't include any Stat increases, and yeah... Vampire Packages are a heap buncha points to drop on all at once, pretty much no matter how you write 'em or what sub-genre type you're aiming for.[/quote']

Good suggestion! On the points issue: it would have to depend on campaign.

In a Heroic campaign without the presence of any powers, there would have to be campaign reasons why the characters wouldn't want to be vampires just to be powerful, but that could be presented by the GM in a convincing fashion: "OK, vampires are powerful, but do you really have any idea of their life expectancy with the sheer number of enemies they get?"

In campaigns where there are Powers available to PCs it can be easily remedied: I did it by reasoning that as characters are both physically and supernaturally altered by becoming vampires, they lose the ability to possess most Powers or use magic in a way open to other characters. This made my players consider it a true curse to become a vampire (they found out about this before it happened to any of them and then they were horrified enough to begin hunting the suckers).

The old WoD had the same principle of losing abilities if/when Mages became vampires, don't know about the new one.

In general, if the players feel that you lose something if you become a vampire (even if that is left vague along the lines of being cursed somehow), the points difference will matter less in the campaign.

 

IME, YMMV.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

have you tried buliding the twilight "vampires" as mutants/mutation would that lessen the conufsion or double it?

[PamelaIsley]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

have you tried buliding the twilight "vampires" as mutants/mutation would that lessen the conufsion or double it?

 

The problem with building a Twilight vampire is they don't suffer from enough complications to pay for the transformation. The lowest gap I could come up with was about 80 points, which equates to 16 additional body (a lot).

 

For this reason, this project shifted to the backburner. My vampire villain is completely done, but without a usable template to apply to his victims (and I think vampires would retain superpowers; in fact, in Twilight extraordinary character traits are made more powerful by the transformation, though I did not try to model this), there is little use for a vampire.

[tarragon]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

If it's a good idea don't drop it because because you can't come up with a cost for the mechanics cost it. This is a plot device and plot devices don't need to be costed cleanly.

 

If this is for an NPC just give them the ability. NPC costs are hidden from the players so they'll never know anyway.

 

If this ability is for a PC you can just set a value that seems appropriate. Treat it like a perk, 10 points to be able to turn others.

[mallet]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Multiform.

 

That's what you are looking for. I got the idea when I was looking through the Enchanted Items book. In it there is an item called the "Crown of the troll king". What happens is whenever someone puts the crown on they are transformed into a Troll, but they keep their own skills and any characteristics that are better then a normal troll. This is basically what is happening when you turn someone into a vampire. They are taking on a new form with some better stats and powers, but also keeping their own skills and INT, EGO, etc...

 

So you should build it as a multiform. One that the Player can not choose to transfer back from.

 

6th Ed has rules for this under Multiform in the Personality Loss subsection. basically the person makes a roll (this would happen during the transformation), and if (when) he fails it he becomes "trapped" in the current form and can only recover his old form and personality with outside help (ie, whatever way you decide (if any) that a vampire can turn back in to their original self. Killing sire, blood transfusion, God's blessing, etc...).

 

All you have to do is build what a average vampire in your campaign is, then that is what the person turns into, but they keep any stats that are higher then the Average vampire, and they keep any skills, perks, talents that they already had, plus get any new powers, that the new form has.

 

That should do the trick.

[薔薇語]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Transform implies inherently that healing is possible. Somethings just can't be healed.

 

It implies it in the same way that Killing attacks imply it. But once you have taken twice your body, you are dead. The means by which to alter that state of affairs is likely to be obscure, remote, mythical, [insert other descriptors]. If a Sever Transform has done its job by doing double body plus, then it seems reasonable to assume that any heal backs are (minus GA's good example of the heal back being death): Obscure, remote, mythical [insert other descriptors].

 

Personally, I think it is okay to use a Summon to represent the bringing forth of a vampire version of someone and having their memories completely in tact. "Summon Specific Person" along with what other aspects you want the summon to have in addition to its original. I am also a fan of using summon in ways that it isn't used in as a default (possession is my key one). All that said, though, I think a generic Vamprism attack is best modeled with a Transform.

 

A point was made upthread that summon has an upper limit of effect that Transform doesn't, so you inevitably have the potential to not be able to really vampirize someone at full effect. The response to this was that it makes some sense that not everyone would retain all their points. Does it? If I'm vamp who can vampirize up to a 500pt creature using a summon build, what happens when I run into a character, whose only notable costs are mundane (equipment, knowledges, high str, etc) and already costs 550 pts? What becomes of the justification that the target must lose a minimum of 50pts (not counting the losses incurred from some of that 500 being eaten up by "vamp" powers)?

 

Anyway. Go with Transform. Best solution. One doesn't need to handwave the 'heal back' issue. Just make the heal back be obscure (plot hook) or go with GA's simple solution of saying death is the natural reversion.

 

La Rose.

[dmjalund]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

I will reiterate my suggestion, that there should be a large Power Advantage to Transform to allow the "heal back" to be defined as something arduous and or obscure

[PamelaIsley]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Making the transform power cost more by increasing the cost of having an obscure heal-back condition would only complicate making a vampire. It wouldn't help much.

 

Transform is clearly the way to do it, but the way transform functions makes it rather hard to use. A simple concept in most horror or fantasy games (vampires can create other vampires) simply can't be modeled very well by Hero without lots of pay-fors that don't fit many non-religious vampire concepts. This happened in M&M all the time too.

[Tasha]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

I would also use Transform. As for the heal back issue. I would rule that pre transform (before the Transform hits double body) that the body would heal back at normal rate. After transform to vampire form, I would have a way back to human form that is difficult to accomplish. (ie not drinking blood and having some sort of ritual to reverse the transformation or some kind of medical treatment that reverses the DNA changes).

[Greywind]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Making the transform power cost more by increasing the cost of having an obscure heal-back condition would only complicate making a vampire. It wouldn't help much.

 

Transform is clearly the way to do it, but the way transform functions makes it rather hard to use. A simple concept in most horror or fantasy games (vampires can create other vampires) simply can't be modeled very well by Hero without lots of pay-fors that don't fit many non-religious vampire concepts. This happened in M&M all the time too.

Which is why it falls easier under "plot device" than "game mechanic".

[JmOz]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Radiation accident

[Tasha]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Which is why it falls easier under "plot device" than "game mechanic".

 

Well said. In most urban Fantasy Genre books Vampirism is something that is bestowed on someone. It's one of those things that come up so rarely that I am not completly sure that making a PC vampire pay for the ability is actually fair. One common trope is that there is some Vampiric Council that oversees all things Vampire. Another one is that there is one powerful vampire that controls anywhere from a city to a state and all things like making new vampires has to be ok'ed. Another common trope is that noob vampires cannot make other noob Vampires, only "Master" level Vampires have the power or knowledge to create another vamp.

 

I guess if one MUST have that power on the character sheet, it could be written up with limits like Takes extra time(one day). Concentration, Gestures making subject drink your blood etc. Cost extra endurance (loses blood), side effect (takes body damage as subject drinks your blood).

 

ie: 7pts Vampiric Transformation: Severe Transform 2d6+1, Partial Transform (+1/2) (52 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, -4), Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (2d6 Killing attack; -1), Gestures (Needs to feed subject my blood; -1/4), Unified Power (Vampiric Powers; -1/4) 15 end

This is similar to what many movies have as a vampiric transform that takes multiple days. To make it faster just turn down the extra time and tone down the side effects (ie make them minor 1d6 killing)

[Tasha]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Here's my thoughts on a Vampiric Template (Includes a HD prefab). It's just a list of stuff that vampires can commonly do. Some of the more powerful abilities are options and can be added later as the vampire gains exp.

 

 

• Powers
  
• Vampiric Char Boost
  10 1) +10 STR - END=1
  10 2) +5 DEX
  5 3) +5 CON
  5 4) +5 PRE
  10 5) +2 OCV
  10 6) +2 DCV
  10 7) +1 SPD
  1 8) +1 PD
  1 9) +1 ED
  5 10) +5 REC
  4 11) +20 END
  5 12) +10 STUN
  
• 
  
• Vampiric Powers
  5 1) Nightvision - END=0
  5 2) Infrared Perception (Sight Group) - END=0
  3 3) Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group) - END=0
  33 4) Regeneration (2 BODY per 5 Minutes), Can Heal Limbs, Resurrection (49 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Not vs Holy, Fire or SIlver Damage; -1/2) - END=0
  6 5) Instant Healing: Resistant Protection (3 PD/3 ED) (9 Active Points); Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Not vs Holy, Fire or SIlver Damage; -1/2) - END=0
  5 6) Sucking blood: Drain BODY 2d6 (20 Active Points); Attack Versus Alternate Defense (PD; All Or Nothing; Any armor will prevent this power from working; -2), No Range (-1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4) - END=2
  
• 
  
• Optional Vampiric Powers
  7 1) Severe Transform 2d6+1 (Human to Vampire, Time and Holy ritual), Partial Transform (+1/2) (52 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Day, -4), Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (2d6 Killing attack; -1), Gestures (Needs to feed subject my blood; -1/4), Unified Power (Vampiric Powers; -1/4) - END=15
  20 2) Vampiric Levitation: Flight 20m - END=2
  27 3) Mist Form: Desolidification (affected by magic) (40 Active Points); Cannot Pass Through Solid Objects (-1/2) - END=4
  20 4) Talons: Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1d6+1 (2 1/2d6 w/STR) - END=2
  40 5) Hypnotic Eyes: Mind Control 12d6 (Human class of minds) (60 Active Points); Eye Contact Required (-1/2) - END=6
  25 6) Change into Wolf or Bat form: Multiform (100 Character Points in the most expensive form) (x2 Number Of Forms) - END=0
  
• Powers Total: 272
  
• Complications
  
• Vampire Complications [Notes: Note this is a bit of a laundry list of Vampiric Weaknesses. Not all vampires have all of these or even most of these. It depends on the campaign, check with your GM for more info]
  20 1) Physical Complication: Cannot Cross Running Water (Frequently; Greatly Impairing)
  20 2) Physical Complication: Cannot Enter a Private Residence without Permission (Frequently; Greatly Impairing) [Notes: BTW this means that Vamps can go into Public places just fine. Not homes.]
  25 3) Susceptibility: Sunlight 1d6 damage per Segment (Common)
  5 4) Distinctive Features: Does not show a reflection in the mirror (Easily Concealed; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)
  15 5) Hunted: Vampire Hunters Infrequently (Mo Pow; Harshly Punish) [Notes: This is one time that Something "less powerful" is more powerful just because they know their prey's weaknesses]
  15 6) Susceptibility: Silver 1d6 damage per Phase (Uncommon) [Notes: Not all vampires have this weakness, but here it is for those who do]
  20 7) Physical Complication: Vampiric powers don't work during the day (Frequently; Greatly Impairing) [Notes: This could also be purchased as a limit on all vampiric powers. Also it is possible to make vampiric powers cost extra end during the day which is also a limit that can be placed on powers]
  
• Complications Points: 120
  

---------------------------------------

Hope you all like it

Tasha

[Lucius]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Making the transform power cost more by increasing the cost of having an obscure heal-back condition would only complicate making a vampire. It wouldn't help much.

 

Transform is clearly the way to do it, but the way transform functions makes it rather hard to use. A simple concept in most horror or fantasy games (vampires can create other vampires) simply can't be modeled very well by Hero without lots of pay-fors that don't fit many non-religious vampire concepts. This happened in M&M all the time too.

 

I wish I knew what you mean by "lots of pay-fors that don't fit many non-religious vampire concepts."

 

As for "hard to use" I assume you mean one of two things;

 

It costs a lot of points. Well, "I can lift the Empire State Building" is a simple concept too, but it will also cost a lot of points. If you want a powerful ability, especially if you want unrestricted use of it, you will have to pay a lot of points. That's the system working as it should.

 

The "Heal Back" condition. Some ways around that have also been discussed. I can think of one I haven't seen yet; say it heals back normally (so just protecting the partially transformed victim from the vampire for a long enough time undoes the effect) and don't give the fully transformed vampire any natural REC. Any REC, Regeneration, or whatever the vampire has, will have a simple straightforward "Does not undo the Transformation" Limitation, or the more insidious route puts Side Effects: Transformation on all vampiric powers (ESPECIALLY including Regeneration) so that any use of vampire abilities digs the character further into the pit.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary

[prestidigitator]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Pfft. The vampire transformation thing is easy. Just make it a side effect of Resurrection Healing.

[mallet]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

How about this?

 

The person changed into the vampire doesn't pay anything for it (complications = new character points), rather the Vampire changing the person pays for it. Using the Follower perk. In most settings a vampire is "bound" to their creator through blood magic and such. Thus they become a follower of the vampire that turned them. Later on the turned vampire can spend an equal number of points that the Follower perk is worth to gain his/her "freedom" from being a Follower of the main vamp.

 

That solves all the problems, since the newly turned vamp isn't "transformed" technically, but rather he/she buys the Vampire Package Deal (which has a final cost of zero), and the Vampire creating them pays the points to gain a follower.

[Lucius]

Re: How do you build a vampire template in 6E?

 

Pfft. The vampire transformation thing is easy. Just make it a side effect of Resurrection Healing.

 

I think you just hit the stake right on the head.

 

Healing BODY 4d6, Resurrection (60 Active Points); Extra Time (20 Minutes, -2 1/2), 3 Charges (-1 1/4), Conditional Power Only someone the vampire has killed via blood drain (-1), Limited Power Must begin within one hour of death (-1), Increased Endurance Cost (x3 END; -1), Costs Endurance (-1/2), Resurrection Only (-1/2), Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (Side Effect only affects the recipient of the benefits of the Power; Victim rises as a vampire; -1/2), Concentration (1/2 DCV; -1/4) Real Cost: 6

 

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is impressed at what Prestidigitator pulled out of his hat