Common 6E House Rules

[Thanee]

Hiyas!

 

So... we are finally getting our HERO 6E Sword & Sorcery style campaign rolling, and I'm interested in hearing about common house rules used with the new rules set.

 

One thing I have often seen here and which we will adopt is changing the cost for DEX to 1pt per +1 (not 2pts per +1), and likewise with Lightning Reflexes (double bonus for the same cost). We will keep the 6pts for Agility Skill Levels, though.

 

We will also have Everyman Skill Familiarities count towards learning the skill later (just because it makes sense).

 

The melee weapons table will be reworked and closer to the one found in 3rd/4th edition.

 

 

Anything else you find noteworthy or worthy of consideration?

 

Bye

Thanee

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

I tend to use different house rules for different campaigns, depending on the feel and tone of the setting, and they're intended to reinforce ideas specific to that game. I can only think of two house rules off the top of my head that I use "universally" in all my HERO System games.

• If a character has a Martial Arts maneuver that includes the Full Move element, and that maneuver can be Aborted to (such as a Flying Dodge), then if they use it via Aborting, they get only the CVs associated with the maneuver... they do not get to make a full move. (I interpret the Full Move element as meaning that the maneuver can be performed in the same Phase as a Full Move, assuming the move is otherwise legal. I don't view the move as being "included" in the maneuver itself.)
  
• I break Combat Order ties by a series of tie-breakers, rather than die rolls. As follows:
  
  1. DEX (or EGO for Mental Powers)
  2. SPD (moves quickly)
  3. PRE (keeps their cool)
  4. INT (thinks quickly)
  5. Character with Tactics Skill before character without Tactics (or character with higher Tactics roll before character with lower Tactics roll) (combat savvy)
  6. Character with Striking Appearance before character without Striking Appearance (or character with more Striking Appearance before character with less Striking Appearance) (artist likes to draw them or director likes to film them, so they get "screen time" sooner)
  7. "Good guy" before "Bad guy"
  8. Experience earned
  9. Die roll (it's never reached this point. )

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

One thing I have often seen here and which we will adopt is changing the cost for DEX to 1pt per +1 (not 2pts per +1)' date=' and likewise with Lightning Reflexes (double bonus for the same cost). We will keep the 6pts for Agility Skill Levels, though.[/quote']

 

So why should anyone ever buy the skill level? +5 DEX gets you +5 LR and +1 to all DEX rolls at the same time,. including base characteristic rolls, for 5 points. Why should anyone spend 6 to get +1 with a single Agility skill at one time? I see buying INT or PRE skill levels at 4 points as highly suboptimal (in fact, can I just buy +1 to all PER rolls and to all intellect skills except one each phase for 1 point instead?). 6 points for an Agility level when DEX costs 1:1 is clearly paying more to get less.

[Thanee]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Well, maybe I should also mention, that we will play with the Characteristics Maxima, so this might be true up to DEX 18, but beyond that it quickly turns around.

 

And as you say, even the other Skill Levels aren't really a good competition against buying the Characteristics up. I can live with that. The Skill Levels still have a place, they just won't be super common.

 

Bye

Thanee

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

While none of the Skill Levels are really a good competition (as you say) opposed to buying Characteristics, you're making DEX skill levels not only less effective than buying DEX, but less effective than all the other skill levels as well. It just seems to unbalance the situation even more...

[Thanee]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

So, would it be better IYO to drop the Agility Skill Levels to 4pts, too, then? Assuming the DEX cost drop is a given...

 

Bye

Thanee

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

So' date=' would it be better IYO to drop the Agility Skill Levels to 4pts, too, then? Assuming the DEX cost drop is a given...[/quote']

 

I don't believe levels with agility skills are any different in value than levels with interaction or knowledge skills, so making the costs match makes sense to me from the outset. And that's even if the cost of DEX does not drop (although I think it should).

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Probably. I'd be more likely to raise INT and PRE and the cost of their skill levels, myself, but since I only have the Basic Rules for 6E and haven't play-tested adjusting anything, I'm going strictly by what looks balanced. My actual suggestion would probably play the game as is and see how it works first, before changing parts that will make costs of similar things fall out of line even more than they may already be...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Probably. I'd be more likely to raise INT and PRE and the cost of their skill levels' date=' myself, but since I only have the Basic Rules for 6E and haven't play-tested adjusting anything, I'm going strictly by what looks balanced. My actual suggestion would probably play the game as is and see how it works first, before changing parts that will make costs of similar things fall out of line even more than they may already be...[/quote']

 

I've come to think PRE and INT should be 2 points each, as DEX is. However, I'm less comfortable with the cost of components. I would suggest:

 

Ancillary Benefits

 

Lightning Reflexes +5 for 5 points (all actions), 4 points (large subgroup of actions - eg "all attacks"), 3 points (smaller subgroup of actions - eg "HTH attacks"), 2 points (smaller group - eg. "3 different attacks") or 1 point (one action - eg. Punch; Blast).

 

PRE attack - +5 for +1d6 (limit for reduced use)

 

PER rolls - +5 for all; +3 for one sense group (targetting), +2 for one sense group (nontargeting) or one sense (targeting), +1 for one sense (nontargeting)

 

PRE defense - goes into EGO and leaves PRE; +2 for 1 point.

 

Char-based Rolls

 

+1 with all rolls based on characteristic - 5 points

+1 with skill rolls based on characteristic (all rolls at once) - 4 points

+1 with subset of rolls based on characteristic (up to 3 rolls; all at once) - 3 points

+1 with any one roll based on characteristic at a time - 3 points

+1 with any one roll on a subset of rolls (up to 3; one at a time) - 2 points

+1 with a single roll (replaces +1 with a skill) - 1 point

 

It seems considerably better to add to all rolls (and get multiple uses in a phase; complementary skills, etc.) than to be able to add to only a single roll per phase.

[incrdbil]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

I haven't implemented any house rules yet. Way too early, and no situation has arisen that has justified such yet.

[Nevenall]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

The Valdorian Age genre book that has some very excellent campaign rules for a S&S game. Including a Skill Maxima of 13- with no skill levels allowed.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

In the present game I am starting up I have a few house/table rules so far;

 

1. STR, DEX, CON, INT, EGO, PRE, & BODY all start out at 5.
   
2. STR Minima on Weapons is 5 less than listed in any official book
   
3. Skill and Char rolls are CHAR/4+8.
   

Those don't count the custom magic rules I am going to release tonight nor the flintlock rules I implemented earlier.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

My supers setting is coming in with 100 points of Complications instead of just 75. And I'm strongly considering grandfathering COM back in.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Well, my campaign is on a looooong hiatus, so should I ever be lucky enough to start it up again, I will probably have a bunch of new house rules, but generally I'd probably make use of a lot of APG stuff.

[Beast]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

we use multiples of body for levels of how far you are knocked out on the time chart

and we use current body

so you could be out for a long time

[Thanee]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

The Valdorian Age genre book that has some very excellent campaign rules for a S&S game.

 

Even though it is for 5th edition (not that big a difference, I know ), I am definitely going to buy that book (it is already on the shopping list ).

 

Bye

Thanee

[Thanee]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

And I'm strongly considering grandfathering COM back in.

 

Any specific reason for this?

 

I actually like the fact, that there is no general appearance characteristic, but other ways to model appearance (i.e. Striking Appearance as a replacement for COM and Distinctive Features, of course).

 

Bye

Thanee

[Thanee]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

As for raising the cost for PRE and INT (instead of lowering DEX)... esp. INT really doesn't seem like it is worth as much as the other two, or is it? At 2pts per +1, I feel INT would definitely be overpriced even more than DEX.

 

You would probably have to do quite a bit of redesign of anything affected by these characteristics (basically like Hugh Neilson suggests above).

 

Also, are these three really more useful than STR, for example? Or CON? It's a bit hard to compare skill bonuses to combat bonuses, but those two are rather big, too, especially in fantasy campaigns.

 

I think I (we actually ) will rather go with as small a list of house rules as possible, only addressing the major issues with fixes that put them roughly in line. Perfect balance is hardly achievable, but if it gets closer to that point with little effort, that's a good thing, IMHO.

 

So, most likely... DEX +1:1pt and Agility levels at 4pts. That appears to be the smallest change that has the best effect to me.

 

Leaving things as they are would surely also be an option, but if these issues have already come up during character generation (and they did), I feel that making a change here right away, that everyone involved is comfortable with, is the right way. As a side note, we do have extensive experience with the HERO System (just no practical experience yet with the new edition).

 

Bye

Thanee

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Any specific reason for this?

 

I actually like the fact, that there is no general appearance characteristic, but other ways to model appearance (i.e. Striking Appearance as a replacement for COM and Distinctive Features, of course).

 

Bye

Thanee

I suggest looking up one of the (literally) dozens of threads where those who wanted to keep COM explain their reasons in detail, rather than bringing up the debate here again. Unless you want to de-rail the thread...

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

I suggest looking up one of the (literally) dozens of threads where those who wanted to keep COM explain their reasons in detail' date=' rather than bringing up the debate here again. Unless you want to de-rail the thread...[/quote']

Seriously. It puts the Great Linked Debate to shame...

[Thanee]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

LOL Ok, ok.

 

Bye

Thanee

[Beast]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Bob did write a great article about Com and was nice enough to share it with us here on this board(go find it if it is still up)

and all he said was that he was going to put it in his 6th ed games ,and not a thing on why it should or should not be in 6th ed

He just said it was going to be in his house rules

 

 

 

Seriously. It puts the Great Linked Debate to shame...

[spaceprincessecho]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

The only house rule I regularly employ is that if you take more stun than your CON, you get a CON roll to avoid being stunned.

 

Auto-stun just seemed problematic to me.

[Christougher]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Can't say they're 6E exactly, but some proposed rules ideas I had:

 

Clone the Protects Carried adder from 5E Forcefield to Invisibility, Desolid, Shrinking, and possibly Growth.

 

New Advantage: Improved Range Mod(+1/4) The normal -2 penalty per range increment is halved to -1 per range increment.

New Limitation: Worse Range Mod(-1/4) Reverse of the advantage, range penalties are -3 (or -4) per range increment.

[Derek Hiemforth]

Re: Common 6E House Rules

 

Bob did write a great article about Com and was nice enough to share it with us here on this board(go find it if it is still up)

and all he said was that he was going to put it in his 6th ed games ,and not a thing on why it should or should not be in 6th ed

He just said it was going to be in his house rules

Understood. I wasn't talking about Bob specifically. Just sayin'... There were towers climbed and hostages taken over the COM issue in the 6E discussions overall.