Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Throws would more likely take the form of 'slams'; grab your opponent's head/limb/whatever and push it into something hard. (Hatch, bulkhead, etc.) Of course you'd be pushed in the other direction unless braced. If you're a spacer and you've taken Extra limbs: legs (only in zero-G) you can hold yourself in place with your feet/legs and use both hands. Otherwise, you'll have to brace yourself with one hand, and execute the 'throw/slam' with the other hand, which incurs a -5 STR / -1DC penalty.

 

Don't mess with spacers!

 

I can see that. At that point, the velocity component of throw damage becomes very important. If you can pull it off, grab an opponent and then push off of a surface while aiming the opponent's head at something. If the guys not skilled at maneuvering in low G, or better yet stunned already, that's a nice slam.

[Kraven Kor]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Like I said, Velocity + Bulkhead = Damage

 

I like the part in Ender's Game where the kid keeps leaning over the seat and whacking Ender in the head. Ender - securely fastened in his seat - pulls the kids arm and sends him flying, breaking his arm.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Like I said, Velocity + Bulkhead = Damage

 

I like the part in Ender's Game where the kid keeps leaning over the seat and whacking Ender in the head. Ender - securely fastened in his seat - pulls the kids arm and sends him flying, breaking his arm.

 

The word "throw" had me thinking of the wrong thing momentarily. In Hero terms, the game mechanic is Martial Throw, while the special effect is not necessarily a traditional throwing technique (nage waza). The physical mechanics of moving masses like that n low G would look odd.

[ajackson]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Actually, here's a fairly simple experiment which will have many of the same problems as zero G martial arts: simply balance yourself on one foot, keeping your foot planted, and try to hit a punching bag, and compare it to doing the same thing with both feet on the ground and freedom to move your feet.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Yes, you can do this, but realistically the damage would be quite poor.

 

And that people are wearing enough armor that brawling weapons will be totally ineffective.

 

Actually, compression suits are pretty lightweight when considered as 'armor.' How much PD would you give a suit like this one? (w/o the helmet)

 

It's designed to protect against vacuum, not blunt trauma.

 

Edited to add: this is a present-day prototype. Science-fictional models will be even lighter, of course.

[Cancer]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

If nothing else' date=' you can grab your opponent with one hand and punch him with the other. Provided the knock-back isn't too great, you'll likely still have a grip on him afterwords, even if the activity starts both of you tumbling around a bit.[/quote']

 

Ice hockey fights!!

[Yansuf]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Grabbing with both hands and using a knee strike works very well.

"Flying kicks" work fine too, you just have to accept the recoil and use it to your advantage.

Choke holds and nerve holds also work. Most armlocks, leg locks and wrist locks will be of little use in free fall since the body moves too easily. A hammer lock or "chicken wing" will work only if you can grab him with your other hand to prevent his movement.

Full nelsons should work, but they are more strength dependent than most martial arts holds. Same with body scissors and bear hugs.

The old "headlock and punch" tactic should work. Also the "grab with both hands and head butt."

[Old Man]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

I forgot to add that pressure point/nerve/tendon strikes would also figure heavily into 0G combat. Don't see a lot of that in real life*, Krav Maga and Eagle Claw kung fu are the only styles I can think of that might devote any time to the subject.

 

 

 

*Because killing attacks are usually illegal, I imagine.

[clsage]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

You might want to take a look at this page:

 

http://www.wolfram.demon.co.uk/rp_ch_om_2336_cair_b.html

 

It's a 5th Ed build and it hits some of the points (grappling attacks, wrestling maneuvers, etc) others have already mentioned....

 

-Carl-

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Grabbing with both hands and using a knee strike works very well.

"Flying kicks" work fine too, you just have to accept the recoil and use it to your advantage.

Choke holds and nerve holds also work. Most armlocks, leg locks and wrist locks will be of little use in free fall since the body moves too easily. A hammer lock or "chicken wing" will work only if you can grab him with your other hand to prevent his movement.

Full nelsons should work, but they are more strength dependent than most martial arts holds. Same with body scissors and bear hugs.

The old "headlock and punch" tactic should work. Also the "grab with both hands and head butt."

 

Knees strikes require the other leg to be planted on the ground and providing friction for the leg and abdominal muscles to work against. Even flying knees require the ground to push against and gravity to pull you into the target. You might do a passing move with an elbow or knee, or get one halfway decent shot in before you had to readjust by grabbing unless you could brace on something for a better or repeated, again not too awesome, shots.

 

You definitely have to trap the person to get leverage for any locking.

 

Think a flying kick would be similar: one halfway decent shot and then bounce around the room.

 

Body scissors or a bear hug is a pretty good option minus a heavy suit that prevents compressing the torso. Nice idea.

 

Better headlock and drive your thumb into soft bits. Those headlock punches are always arm punches, mainly annoying but not fatal, even more so minus gravity to work against.

[ajackson]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Actually' date=' compression suits are pretty lightweight when considered as 'armor.' How much PD would you give a suit like this one? (w/o the helmet)[/quote']

Assuming it's designed to let you move in zero-G, implying smart fabrics of some sort, probably about 2 resistant and another 4 non-resistant.

[pinecone]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Another question about unarmed combat for a science-fiction campaign. The campaign I'm working on doesn't have artificial gravity, and most of the action takes place off-world. As a result, space habitats using spin-gravity will be very common in this setting, and zero-g will be equally common.

 

I'm working on rules and martial arts styles specifically for zero-g and for spin-gravity, and that's going fairly well. But those styles are for specialists -- people who need to defend themselves in zero-gravity, or fight inside rotating space habs.

 

(For the curious, I got the idea for a spin-g martial arts style from one of the stories in the Man-Kzin Wars series. There's a dramatic scene inside a rotating asteroid colony where a kzinti attacks a local; he uses the asteroid's spin to throw off his attacker's timing just enough to escape with his life.)

 

However, I'd like to know if there's a more generally useful martial style, one flexible enough to be adapted to the wide variety of conditions in this campaign: "normal" gravity, spin gravity, and zero gravity. If you had to pick a martial art to be used in all these environments...

 

1) which style would it be?

2) how would it be adapted?

 

Or is this whole question just complete nonsense?

I'd say Jiu jitsu right off...most any "grapple based " art should be easy to adapt, plus pressure points, and some weapon skills....

[megaplayboy]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

I'd think, offhand, that zero-G and micro-G would deduct 1 DC from striking damage, since the momentum from a punch or kick may be more evenly distributed, while increasing knockback(roll 1d6 instead of 3, since you're a) flying and there's no gravity). I'd suggest short range strikes, chokes, and joint locks would be most useful, with longer strikes being possibly useful in some circumstances like "spin-G". A "takedown" or "shoot" would be almost worthless, except to close distance for a choke or joint lock.

[dmjalund]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

also in space, knockback would be continuous until you find a way to stop yourself

[Yansuf]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Knees strikes require the other leg to be planted on the ground and providing friction for the leg and abdominal muscles to work against.

 

????

No they don't.

Try it in a swimming pool. It works.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

????

No they don't.

Try it in a swimming pool. It works.

 

It might be my personal misconception because I don't float easily in a pool, but I don't see it. I can't stay afloat without significant effort, so I don't naturally equate pools with microgravity.

 

I guess my thought is: with just the flex of the abdominal muscles to power it, how powerful could this strike be?

[Yansuf]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

It might be my personal misconception because I don't float easily in a pool, but I don't see it. I can't sty afloat without significant effort, so I don't naturally equate pools with microgravity.

 

I guess my thought is: with just the flex of the abdominal muscles to power it, how powerful could this strike be?

 

You also get the contraction of the (large) thigh muscles.

Try holding yourself in the air by hanging from a bar or the like, then bring your knee up as fast as you can.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

A punch dagger or small punch knife is probably just as deadly as a gun or sword in space--puncture the other guy's suit a couple times, and that's that.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

A punch dagger or small punch knife is probably just as deadly as a gun or sword in space--puncture the other guy's suit a couple times' date=' and that's that.[/quote']

 

This is true for pressurized space suits -- one good-sized rip or hole, and all the air leaks out. With mechanical pressure suits, it depends on where the size and location of the puncture. A 'flesh wound' will bleed into space, but there's no air to lose, except in the helmet. There's a good chance of patching it before the damage worsens. OTOH, any significant puncture wound in the chest/abdominal cavity will be fatal, not to mention really ugly.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

You also get the contraction of the (large) thigh muscles.

Try holding yourself in the air by hanging from a bar or the like, then bring your knee up as fast as you can.

 

I should have mentioned the thigh muscles, but I'm still leery.

 

In the hanging bar example, the person you would be striking would have to be positioned so that his chin or whatever was above the knee. Gravity would be pulling them down, in effect holding them in place for the knee. Now imaginge doing the same thing to a big helium ballon. It would just float away. In microgavity, you would both rebound and float away from whatever mutual attachment point you had established before the knee strike. Unless some physics maven here can explain it a little better, that seem right to me. One halfway decent shot followed by readjustment.

 

Too bad we can't convince NASA to launch two MMA fighter into orbit, so they could try this stuff out.

[Yansuf]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

I should have mentione the thigh muscles, but I'm still leery.

 

In the hanging bar example, the person you would be striking would have to be positioned so that his chin or whatever was above the knee. Gravity would be pulling them down, in effect holding them in place for the knee. Now imaginge doing the same thing to a big helium ballon. It would just float away. In microgavity, you would both rebound and float away from whatever mutual attachment point you had established before the knee strike. Unless some physics maven here can explain it a little better, that seem right to me. One halfway decent shot follwed by readjustment.

 

Too bad we can't convince NASA to launch two MMA fighter into orbit, so they could try this stuff out.

 

I like the MMA idea.

 

If you are holding someone with both hands while you lift your knee, they do not drift away, and you do not rebound.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Yes -- I can see a lot of zero-G fights beginning with a flurry of grapples, reversals, and escapes, followed by an exchange of blows ending with one combatant drifting away unconscious. The zero-g combat technique favored by spacers in my campaign is known as 'The Gripping Hand' for some obscure reason....

[Susano]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Yes -- I can see a lot of zero-G fights beginning with a flurry of grapples' date=' reversals, and escapes, followed by an exchange of blows ending with one combatant drifting away unconscious. The zero-g combat technique favored by spacers in my campaign is known as 'The Gripping Hand' for some obscure reason....[/quote']

 

Unhunh... obscure to some maybe.

[KawangaKid]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

Unhunh... obscure to some maybe.

 

You don't suppose there's a maneuver called "The Mote in God's Eye"?

[BlackSword]

Re: Martial Arts iiinnn ssspppaaaccceee!!! Which style is flexible enough?

 

I should have mentioned the thigh muscles, but I'm still leery.

 

In the hanging bar example, the person you would be striking would have to be positioned so that his chin or whatever was above the knee. Gravity would be pulling them down, in effect holding them in place for the knee. Now imaginge doing the same thing to a big helium ballon. It would just float away. In microgavity, you would both rebound and float away from whatever mutual attachment point you had established before the knee strike. Unless some physics maven here can explain it a little better, that seem right to me. One halfway decent shot followed by readjustment.

 

Too bad we can't convince NASA to launch two MMA fighter into orbit, so they could try this stuff out.

Don't need to put them in orbit, use the Vomit Comet.