THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

[Steve Long]

OK, with the HSEG done, it's time for a WDYWTS thread on our next book: The HERO System Grimoire!

 

The "HSG," simply put, is a vast collection of spells for use in any HERO System game where magic's a factor. Basically I'm going to take the 5E FHG, FHG2, and various other collections of spells from HPAs and other books and combine them into one easily-referenced tome. Since the book won't be "tied" to a setting like the FHG was, I'm going to change the names of the spells to more "generic" ones for ease of use.

 

As it currently stands, here's my list of categories of spells I intend to cover:

 

Alchemy

Arcanomancy

Areomancy

Black Magic

Chaos Magic

Chinese Sorcery

Conjuration

Cybermancy

Divination

Divine Magic

Druidry

Elemental Magic — Air

Elemental Magic — Earth

Elemental Magic — Fire

Elemental Magic — Water

Elemental Magic — Miscellaneous

Enchantment

Monster Magic

Naming

Necromancy

Professional Magic

Rune Magic

Shamanism

Sorcery

Song Magic

Superheroic Thaumaturgy

Thaumaturgy

Voodoo

Witchcraft

Wizardry

 

The HSG will be a black-and-white softcover book.

 

Now that I've told you what the HSG is, let me be clear what it is not. The HSG is just a collection of spells, and that's it -- no more, no less. It will not contain magic systems, enchanted items, expanded rules for magic, guidelines for creating your own spells, or any other such thing. (Most of that's covered in FH anyways.) It's just spells, spells, and more spells.

 

So, with all that in mind... what do you want to see in this book? Is there a category of spells you think I've left out? Are there particular options you want to see touched on? Let me know!

[Escafarc]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How about Technomancy. Creating Magical Machines more advance/complicated than a +1 lizard sticker if you know what I mean.

[BLHarrison]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

If a spell could fit in more than one catagory, will you list it? For example the classic Fireball would obviously be listed in Elemental-Fire, but you could also have it under Chaos (fire can be considered chaotic energy), Divine (if the caster is a servant of a fire diety) or Black Magic (if your definition of Black Magic is magic that can harm). If you have the spells listed by the categories you listed above that any reasonable alternative be listed.

 

As to specific spells, some of the "big guns" from various animes (such as Slayers and Magical Girl Lyrical Nahona) would be nice.

[Palmate]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like to see a variety of healing type spells where the sfx, or the spell is built a variety of ways.

While we are on the topic what are you using to define a power as a spell? Is it the presence of specific limitations, advantages, etc? I’m asking as it would help me in defining what I would like to see if I knew what you were calling a spell.

 

 

P

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Will the categories be described somehow? Not necessarily a full magic system description, and that could probably be divined (no pun intended) from the spell descriptions and Modifier lists, but will there at least be some notes as to what the difference is between, say, Sorcery, Thaumaturgy, and Wizardry? I'd like to see at least that much, even if the rest is "For further information, see Book X, page N."

[Dreamstreamer]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I wouldn't mind seeing the following categories:

 

Tattoo Magic

Summoning/Circle Magic

Blood Magic (Is this Thaumaturgy?)

Cantrips (Mini-spells?)

Mentalism (Possibly better suited to for a 'PSI' book?)

 

I'll try to think of more later.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Will there be any inherent magic system(s) in mind?

 

What about magic items, like Wands or Staffs? What if there were notes on how just adding Focus to a spell makes it a magic item?

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

If a spell could fit in more than one catagory, will you list it?

 

Of course. I'll decide where it should go and list it there.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

While we are on the topic what are you using to define a power as a spell? Is it the presence of specific limitations, advantages, etc? I’m asking as it would help me in defining what I would like to see if I knew what you were calling a spell.

 

The definition is "I say this is a spell." Certain Limitations are commonly used for spells (look at the example spells in Fantasy Hero, you'll see what I'm talking about), but it really all depends on the magic system. Some magic systems slap all kinds of Limitations on their spells; some use very few. I feel secure in saying that what I create for the HSG spells will be recognizable as "spells" as the vast majority of gamers tend to view these things.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Will the categories be described somehow?

 

To the same extent they were in the FHGs and HPAs where they first appeared, sure. Not really intending to go beyond that; if I get too detailed it verges too close into becoming a pre-defined magic system, which I don't want.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

D&D 3e had Extraordinary Abilities, Supernatural Abilities, and Spell-like Abilities; all of which functioned similarly to standard magic but on different levels of being natural to a monster or character. What if spells had similar alteration options?

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Tattoo Magic

 

To the extent covered at all, this is in Shamanism.

 

Summoning/Circle Magic

 

That's Conjuration.

 

Blood Magic (Is this Thaumaturgy?)

 

Nope, it's part of Black Magic.

 

Cantrips (Mini-spells?)

 

Well, there are varying levels of power for the individual spells presented in the Options. Beyond that I think that defining "cantrips" would be a magic system- or setting-specific thing for the GM to define.

 

Mentalism (Possibly better suited to for a 'PSI' book?)

 

That's Sorcery.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Will there be any inherent magic system(s) in mind?

 

What about magic items, like Wands or Staffs?

 

Both these issues are covered in the introductory post.

[Steve Long]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

D&D 3e had Extraordinary Abilities, Supernatural Abilities, and Spell-like Abilities; all of which functioned similarly to standard magic but on different levels of being natural to a monster or character. What if spells had similar alteration options?

 

There are certainly going to be options that make some spells easier to use or remove certain Limitations, as in the FHGs, but that's about it. I definitely don't want to present options that turn them into innate "abilities." For that sort of thing, it should be easy enough to adapt the abilities in Champions Powers to suit.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Uhhh... dude' date=' did you read the introductory post at all? You kinda oughta. [/quote']

Okay, I dun goofed on the magic items bit, but I think that magic spells tend to depend upon at least some kind of magic system and I think that even a book full of generic spells would probably have to assume some kind of standard.

[megaplayboy]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What about some exotic stuff like Space Magic(think Spelljammer) or Cybermagery(using magic to "jack in" and hack the Net, or placing a ward on a system)? Just to show how flexible the concept of magic can be...

 

More mundanely, faerie magic and dragon magic might be good ones to include. Oh! Qliphothic magic would be nice, too, complete with obligatory nasty side effects.

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

There are certainly going to be options that make some spells easier to use or remove certain Limitations' date=' as in the FHGs, but that's about it. I definitely don't want to present options that turn them into innate "abilities." For that sort of thing, it should be easy enough to adapt the abilities in [i']Champions Powers[/i] to suit.

I figured that much - didn't hurt to ask just in case. I'm sure that the Introduction will probably imply that much like any book full o' powers does.

 

And what about various spells used by specific characters from earlier books? Or even ones that have already been published for 6e?

[The Main Man]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What about some exotic stuff like Space Magic(think Spelljammer) or Cybermagery(using magic to "jack in" and hack the Net, or placing a ward on a system)? Just to show how flexible the concept of magic can be...

 

More mundanely, faerie magic and dragon magic might be good ones to include. Oh! Qliphothic magic would be nice, too, complete with obligatory nasty side effects.

He mentioned Cybermancy, but Space Magic sounds interesting to me - kinda like a Fantasy answer to Space Opera technology. I recall Troll magic, but Dragon, Faerie, and Qliphothic magic could be nice. Demonic magic too.

[Peregrine]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Arachnomancy (Probably a subset of Monster Magic, I'm guessing)

Shadowmancy (Black Magic variant, perhaps?)

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Okay' date=' I dun goofed on the magic items bit, but I think that magic spells tend to depend upon at least some kind of magic system and I think that even a book full of generic spells would probably have to assume some kind of standard.[/quote']

 

I think the book of generic spells essentially sets its own magic system. If most/all spells have Gestures,Incantations and consume a Focus, then the magic system presupposes verbal, somatic and material components, for example. Most or all of the spells will then require some adjustment if they are to be used in a game where spells are not permitted to have, say, Incantations or Gestures, but are required to have Concentration and Extra Time. There's no real way around that, short of presenting the spells with only their base mechanics and limitations unique to the specific spell, with the various limitations applied to "all spells" or "most spells" in that particular setting added on by the players.

 

What I would like to NOT see is a book of spells where virtually all have the same "options", such as "Silent " with the entire spell written up again without Incantations, "Still " with the entire spell written up again without Incantations, and "Silent Still " with yet another repeat of the whole spell, this time with neither Gestures nor Incantations. Just toss a comment at the start of the section, or the start of the book, on removing common limitations to create a slight variance on any or all of the spells. I'd much rather have more unusual spells, and customize them for the general limitations I want them to have, than have half the book be reprints of the entire build, with a limitation or two added, removed or altered slightly.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Now that I've told you what the HSG is' date=' let me be clear what it is [i']not.[/i] The HSG is just a collection of spells, and that's it -- no more, no less. It will not contain magic systems, enchanted items, expanded rules for magic, guidelines for creating your own spells, or any other such thing. (Most of that's covered in FH anyways.) It's just spells, spells, and more spells.

I agree with this decision, but I would suggest giving specific page references in the Introduction for these other things.

So, with all that in mind... what do you want to see in this book? Is there a category of spells you think I've left out? Are there particular options you want to see touched on? Let me know!

Wasn't there a category of magic that consists of "stealing" power from the gods -- called Theurgy, or something like that? I'd rather like to see that. (Or would that be a subcategory of Divine Magic?)

If a spell could fit in more than one catagory' date=' will you list it? For example the classic Fireball would obviously be listed in Elemental-Fire, but you could also have it under Chaos (fire can be considered chaotic energy), Divine (if the caster is a servant of a fire diety) or Black Magic (if your definition of Black Magic is magic that can harm). If you have the spells listed by the categories you listed above that any reasonable alternative be listed.[/quote']It would be very cool if some way could be devised to cross-reference specific spells with alternate categories. This could be something like a sidebar listing other categories for each spell, an Option fitting the spell into a different category, or a Text Box listing other spells that could be adapted to the category. It's probably an extremely complex proposition, so I won't be horribly disappointed if it doesn't happen, but it would be, as I said, very cool.

What I would like to NOT see is a book of spells where virtually all have the same "options"' date=' such as "Silent [u'] [/u]" with the entire spell written up again without Incantations, "Still " with the entire spell written up again without Incantations, and "Silent Still " with yet another repeat of the whole spell, this time with neither Gestures nor Incantations. Just toss a comment at the start of the section, or the start of the book, on removing common limitations to create a slight variance on any or all of the spells. I'd much rather have more unusual spells, and customize them for the general limitations I want them to have, than have half the book be reprints of the entire build, with a limitation or two added, removed or altered slightly.

In the past, the alternate builds have been along the lines of "build it the same way, except for X," followed by the new Active Point (if needed) and Real Point values.

 

I don't have the new FH book, but if different Options can be presented like this that presents most or all spells in alternate forms to fit alternate magic systems, that would be a boon -- though again this may be something too complex to work.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

To what extent will spells from the four fantasy setting books be included in the new FHG?

[Lord Liaden]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Wasn't there a category of magic that consists of "stealing" power from the gods -- called Theurgy' date=' or something like that?[/quote']

 

That's a good question. The Western tradition of "Hermetic Theurgy" (as Dean Shomshak describes it in The Ultimate Mystic) is quite distinct from the type of "divinely-granted" spells as presented in most fantasy games.

 

Unfortunately, there are fewer spells of this class extant in Fifth Edition HERO sources than there were in Fourth, and as Steve seems to be culling from 5E books for ease of transcription, the 4E stuff would be harder to update. There are a few spells of Hermetic Theurgy in TUM, and a few more attributed to Robert Caliburn in Vibora Bay; but those might not be enough to make up a full entry in the FHG.

[Matthew Martin]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

How about "White Magic" as the opposite of Black Magic, even if it's just a sidebar on how to build it by borrowing spells from other categories? Give the forces of Good equal time!

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: THE HERO SYSTEM GRIMOIRE: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Divination

 

Wikipedia has a comprehensive list of methods of divination. Writing them all up would be silly, but you could fill a sidebar (or several) with them.

 

Elemental Magic — Air

Elemental Magic — Earth

Elemental Magic — Fire

Elemental Magic — Water

Elemental Magic — Miscellaneous

I'd like to see the elemental categories expanded to include Eastern elements - Metal, Wood, Void, and Spirit.