New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

[knightwriter]

Like the title states: I'm new to 6e, but have about twenty five years of gaming under my belt. I picked up 6E last weekend and starting reading through it. At first I was overwhelmed by the material, but after a few deep breaths with my head between my knees, I got past the initial shock and started to assimulate the information.

I love how free form this system is.

For the first time, in my gaming life, I have created the noble Knight that I envisioned in my head, without having to box him into an existing class with a rules structure stating he can do this but not that.

I am really excited to create my own world and feel like I have the tools to do anything that I wish now without being boxed in by someone elses idea of how the game should operate.

After all this gushing, sorry, I was wondering if anyone had a good idea of how to gently bring my group into this game system? I was thinking about starting with a heroic game (fantasy), there in possibly only using the combat system without the optional rules and working closely with the person who wants to be a wizard, as it will be the first time either of us have worked with the powers in this system.

I would be greatful to hear what others did to get players into this system.

Game on!

[Steve Long]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Thanx for the kind words, and welcome to HERO!

 

I'm sure some other fans will have suggestions and advice for bringing your gaming group into the game -- which is a difficult thing for nearly any system, in my experience -- but here are my suggestions:

 

1. Start them off with the HERO System Basic Rulebook. You've got the full rulebook just in case, but the BR is designed as a learning tool to make it easy to figure out how the game works. If they think of something they want to do that's not covered in the BR, you can show them the rule in the 6E rulebook and give them a glimpse of all the other cool stuff in store.

 

2. Start off with a Heroic genre and (relatively) low-powered characters. That leads to shorter character sheets, which is a good way to learn the basics.

 

3. Use few/no optional rules to start. Hit Locations are a popular one for most Heroic games, but maybe that's the only one you use initially. You can work the others in as the need for them arises... if it ever does.

 

4. Plan a short introductory scenario with a few encounters/events specifically designed to showcase specific mechanics: in one encounter they learn how to make Skill Rolls; one demonstrates what PER Rolls are; one is a short combat that lets them explore how to hit, be hit, and give/take damage; etc.

 

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

[RexMundi]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Pretty much what Steve pointed out there is a great way to go. Especially if Heroic and Fantasy is your bread and butter style of gaming. I made it a point to "encourage" and even grab a couple of extra copies of the Basic book, for my new players to get a grip on the system. Excellent little book by the way for the folks that want to get in on the 6e material yet are constrained by the price tag of the Vol 1+2 (Though, you get far more then your $'s worth there)....

 

A good way to bring the folks into the game is well, have them play. It's tough to go back to a template and grid format system (This Class +This other Class +this Race+Level etc etc etc ....) after you get the hang of being able to do, exactly what you want, when you want it, any way you want to do it.

 

~Rex

[Fireg0lem]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

I really agree with Steve Long on suggesting hit locations to start - they add a huge amount to the feel of the game.

 

The first game I ran for new HERO players was a very low fantasy game with characters starting at 0+25 (which would now be 25 points with 25 matching complication points). I can also attest to Steve's 4th suggestion being a good one - that's exactly how I did it. The first game had a simple fight against orcs just to get people the idea of how combat worked. I tried to work in a new "important thing" every session, like Knockdown, Bleeding, Abort, et cetera.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

I agree with the idea of low powered heroic. That's how I got into HERO. Talk with your players about what character they want and then make sure you do the majority of character creation (unless they feel they have a good grip on the system, some people pick up new systems easily). I find that if each character was made by the same person (everyone has their own HERO "style") they tend to be easier to balance.

 

I was also introduced to HERO by my character gaining a VPP pool about 4 sessions into the game, which forced me to read the power rules and learn to build powers on the fly.

 

EDIT: Also Fireg0lem, we had 50 points of disads, (Roy had 2 total psych disads)

[John Desmarais]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

...

After all this gushing, sorry, I was wondering if anyone had a good idea of how to gently bring my group into this game system? I was thinking about starting with a heroic game (fantasy), there in possibly only using the combat system without the optional rules and working closely with the person who wants to be a wizard, as it will be the first time either of us have worked with the powers in this system.

 

In addition to what Steve suggested I'd add this: Hero can be used for just about any genre of game you can imagine, but pick a genre that you already know your players are familiar with a like - a familiar feeling campaign setting helps to ease them into an unfamiliar set of rules.. Heroic level fantasy is a great place to start as almost all games are familiar with it (from the near ubiquitous Dunkins and Dragoons).

[Doc Democracy]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

My advice is to keep it very simple when you introduce them. You should get them used to the basic system without worrying too much about the cost of stuff.

 

I would get a character sheet with no cost numbers on it, get most of the basic rolls and calculations and, if you can manage it an evocative image of the character. That way they can concentrate on OCV versus DCV and the basic combat options and skill rolls. I would also make all of the characters myself (after discussion on what they want with the promise of one or two re-write opportunities in case things do not work out in play).

 

The powers can be introduced piecemeal by your wizard and various NPC people and monsters.

 

Soon enough they will be interested in making their own characters and you can provide them with either the Basic rules like Steve said or, if you think they are strong enough, the full on character creation rules.

 

 

Doc

[Killer Shrike]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Keep it simple....but if its TOO simple you aren't really showing the game to its full advantage.

 

I mean, if you are trying to sell someone a car "its got doors, tires, and a steering wheel and it will get you to work in the morning" will only appeal to the least discriminating car buyer.

 

 

Try doing something other games would fall down on, like a cross genre game.

 

Ask each player what kind of game they want to play, fantasy, sci fi, whatever. Have them describe what that character is all about. Take good notes. Go make it for them. Later, when you reveal your first version to them, sit down and explain how each ability addresses something they said. Be flexible and prepared to change things if they have other ideas. Finish with a final version.

 

Maybe they just say "D&D" or "World of Darkness" or some other game. Fine. Have them design a character for that game in that games terms. Do your best to translate that and make a HERO system equivalent for them. Do a show and tell, and get them involved in revising until it matches what they want.

 

Don't worry about points, accounting, rules peculiarities, or any other infrastructural bits with the players. Focus on the fluff. Try to keep the various characters somewhere in the same ball park, but don't worry too much about it. Keep some kind of a ceiling on damage classes, and some kind of a median on defenses, but don't be too meta about it.

 

When the players are done, eyeball the characters collectively, making sure none of them are too squishy or lack any way to be useful in a fight or a pure rp situation. Use "invisible" things like Combat Luck, or just plain Luck, and DCV levels to buff up overly squishy characters. Look at any character that is insufficiently combative (DC's too low, OCV too low, no actual attack) and try to buff up something they already have to give them _something_; failing that the player probably wanted them to be toothless so re-eyeball their survivability and perhaps their stealthiness / elusiveness to make sure they can at least survive. Look at characters that are all combat and consider giving them at least one skill such as an interaction skill that will allow them to at least try to contribute to non-combat situations.

 

But, again, this is a dog and pony show, so don't stress over the details. Save your GM-OCD analness for a real serious game later. Remember that if this initial show and tell game isn't successful, there probably wont BE a second game, so keep the focus solidly on "FUN" and "AINT IT COOL" and not on "PROPERLY APPLYING GOOD GMING PRINCIPLES".

 

 

For the game itself, put the PC's into some kind of cross-genre blender. Something like Tales of the Floating Vagabond, or Torg, or a Hall of Doors metaphor, or whatever. You can even go all meta and do a frame story, a game within the game, where the REAL PC's (not statted) are gods, or game developers, or dreamers, or participants in a cyberpunk VR having out of body experiences, and their statted up PC's are their unwitting pawns, programmed minions, dream forms, or avatars put into some kind of arbitrary it aint real anyway so don't worry about it environment.

 

Or just throw them all in a space Coliseum and say they are all poor victims that have been snatched from their respective realities by a diabolic and nearly omnipotent kirby-esque character to fight for their lives through a series of unlikely scenarios for the entertainment of a multidimensional pay per view show. FNORD. And then just run the game, focusing on the underlying mechanics of combat and how abilities work. Be sure to include at least two things each character in your group can do in each scenario (important, write that down). String it all together with some interstitial scenes to allow players to attempt to "WIN" by escaping the colliseum and returning their characters to their proper places in the multiverse. The end.

 

If the players have fun, they'll like the system. If they don't the odds go down drastically. Only mechanics latch onto the game for its mechanical brilliance. Most gamers are not mechanics, you have to show them what kind of cool things the mechanics can be used to support.

[Checkmate]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

I'm with Killer Shrike, but I might keep it a bit simpler. You want to "wow" the players where Hero shines, and that's removing classes. Let's pretend that your other game was D&D. Go to your players, and ask, if they could play any character in D&D, what would they play? If they come back with "Human Fighter", prod them, ask them "What about a Centaur Shaman" or (gods forbid) "Drow Ranger"? Now in the D&D world Centaurs and Drow would be much more powerful than a Human Fighter, not in Hero. With the point buy system, everyone comes out pretty balanced (with GM intervention of course). The Centaur will spend most of his points on Characteristics, and be pretty light in his Shaman skills. The Drow would spend a lot of points in his special abilities (Faire Fire, Darkness etc.) while the Human Fighter would spend most of his points on being a Fighter. Also explain that there are no restriction to what "Feats" you can take beyond being able to afford them. Anyone can learn as much or as little magic as they want.

 

When you create the characters you want to keep hammering into them not to think about the restrictions of D&D. If they want their Wizard to know Fireball, Magic Missile, and Cure Critical Wounds, you can do that. You can make a Character who is a Paladin of a Chaotic Good god of Weather and give that Paladin weather related powers, and he doesn't have to be played as if he's Lawful Good.

 

The second bit of advice that I give all newcomers is Hero Designer. This is the software character creator. In my opinion the only thing more important than this is the core rule books. This should absolutely be your next purchase. A lot of people write it off as being lazy, but there is no better way to teach yourself the character creation system than this software. You can read the rules throw it into Hero Designer and check it out, and reverse engineer the math. I feel it is absolutely crucial.

 

The third piece of advice, and one you seem to have grasped is coming to the forums. We are all here because we like Hero System, and we want it to succeed. If that means helping out dirty noobs like you, well that's what we'll do Seriously we are generally a pretty helpful bunch and we love to discuss rules and ways to accomplish something. If you have any problems with anything from campaign ideas to character builds, stop on by.

[JmOz]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Maybe they just say "D&D" or "World of Darkness" or some other game. Fine. Have them design a character for that game in that games terms. Do your best to translate that and make a HERO system equivalent for them. Do a show and tell, and get them involved in revising until it matches what they want.

 

Sorry for the clipping, but had an idea, have them play the "but" game

 

I want to play a fighter "but" my fighter can summon his sword and armor with a magic word

[RexMundi]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Not a bad Idea there. One of the reasons I always ask my players, especially the new ones, What do you want to play, now, what would you LIKE to be able to do. You can "interview" an entire campaign out of people that way. Suprising what tends to invent itself.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

One idea might be to look over a site with a lot of characters (like mine) and select some guys you know from movies, comics, and so on, and have them fight some of the monsters on my site, or other characters. Just to show the many possibilities in the system.

[RexMundi]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

True, then they could fight. Kong. You haven't been in a fight until you've gone 3 rounds with Kong.

 

~Rex

[gojira]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Try doing something other games would fall down on' date=' like a cross genre game.[/quote']

 

 

Do you know how easy it would be to do this in Hero?

 

 

[Killer Shrike]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Do you know how easy it would be to do this in Hero?

 

 

 

Ya, actually, I do.

[gojira]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

It was a rhetorical question. But that reminds me, I should pick up Post-Apocalyptic Hero while there's a sale on.

[prestidigitator]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Why would I ever do that?

I think my sarcasm meter has been thrown off by the years of horrid struggle against the beast that is D&D.

[RexMundi]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

I think my sarcasm meter has been thrown off by the years of horrid struggle against the beast that is D&D.

 

Heh, sometimes, standing up against the hordes of D20 Zombies out there does rather make one feel like the lone survivor of a zombie apocolypse.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Heh, sometimes, standing up against the hordes of D20 Zombies out there does rather make one feel like the lone survivor of a zombie apocolypse.

 

~Rex

 

Pills over here! Takin' a shot!

[Tech]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Like the title states: I'm new to 6e, but have about twenty five years of gaming under my belt. I picked up 6E last weekend and starting reading through it. At first I was overwhelmed by the material, but after a few deep breaths with my head between my knees, I got past the initial shock and started to assimulate the information.

I love how free form this system is.

For the first time, in my gaming life, I have created the noble Knight that I envisioned in my head, without having to box him into an existing class with a rules structure stating he can do this but not that.

I am really excited to create my own world and feel like I have the tools to do anything that I wish now without being boxed in by someone elses idea of how the game should operate.

After all this gushing, sorry, I was wondering if anyone had a good idea of how to gently bring my group into this game system? I was thinking about starting with a heroic game (fantasy), there in possibly only using the combat system without the optional rules and working closely with the person who wants to be a wizard, as it will be the first time either of us have worked with the powers in this system.

I would be greatful to hear what others did to get players into this system.

Game on!

 

Go with the genre you like the most. You mentioned heroic game (fantasy), so if that's what you like, go for it. Oh, and welcome to the Hero Games system!

[RexMundi]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Oh, if Fantasy is your flavor of game, I can't recomend Fantasy Hero enough. Though I still can't bring myself to write up a review on those "other sites".....those folks scare me.

 

~Rex

[Sean Waters]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Have to chip this one in there: I agree with all that goes before but don't neglect the shiny goodness that is the actual hero System game mechanics. One of the first things that really attracted me to Hero (or Champions as it then was) was that it separated damage into Stun and Body (and ENDurance too), allowing you to build a character that could be knocked out without having to kludge the rules, or have to take a few breaths before continuing because they were feeling light headed. It also meant that certain wounds took much longer to heal than others. Even without all the optional extras (like hit locations and disabling/impairing wounds), Hero still provides a very nice system compared to many other games, even after all these years, without any real fundamental changes to the game mechanics. Hero still provides one of the richest gaming experiences from a mechanics viewpoint, whilst remaining very playable.

 

No system is perfect, and a system that accurately modeled reality would probably be unplayable, Hero does model 'cinematic reality' REALLY well, which is a sometimes under-utilised selling point.

[Checkmate]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

That's a good point. One of my fondest memories was running out of END during a fight with Mechanon. I had to hide in a garbage can... Good thing his N-Ray didn't work through Tin

[Ragitsu]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Just remember: if you ever *have* to bash another system to make your system(s) of choice look good, you're doing something horribly wrong.

 

Keep it civil guys. Not every one of us here has an "us vs them" mentality when it comes to entertainment.

[RexMundi]

Re: New to 6E. Wow! Amazing system

 

Just remember: if you ever *have* to bash another system to make your system(s) of choice look good, you're doing something horribly wrong.

 

Keep it civil guys. Not every one of us here has an "us vs them" mentality when it comes to entertainment.

 

Who bashed?

 

~Rex