TV show concept

[quozaxx]

Heroes is gone. The Cape is gone. No Ordinary Family may also be gone.

 

Why don't super hero shows work? Why do they do go away?

 

And now the important question.

 

If you wanted a TV show with super heroes in it; what would YOU do? How would you make it work?

 

What would you put in? What would you leave out?

[Certified]

Re: TV show concept

 

If we're talking live action, well I think Swamp Thing had a longer run than the Cape and No Ordinary Family. Could always try and go the mystery horror comic route. Would be nice to see a good Hellblazer, although they tried a Dresden Files TV show and that didn't last long either.

 

If we're talking animated I'd say don't dumb things down. It doesn't have to be high brow but accept the conventions and build solid storylines.

[sinanju]

Re: TV show concept

 

Heroes is gone. The Cape is gone. No Ordinary Family may also be gone.

 

Why don't super hero shows work? Why do they do go away?

 

First, a caveat: MOST shows in MOST genres don't last. We just don't remember the doctor/lawyer/cop show that sank without a trace because there are plenty more of them.

 

That said, I think superhero show "don't work" because until fairly recently the SFX simply weren't available--at all, or at an affordable price--to do superheroes on a weekly schedule. (I think that this is why superhero comics have hung on long after most other sorts of comics--war, crime, mystery, romance, etc.--have mostly faded away. You could get those stories on tv or in the movies, and live action beats cartoons. But superheroes were a tougher nut to crack. CGI and other advances have more than a little, I think, to do with the much larger number of superhero movies we see nowadays. It's not just that public has finally cottoned onto supers. It's that the movies can be done and look good, not cheesy.

 

But given adequate SFX and SFX budgets, why do they fail?

 

Because the creators mostly still look down on them. They're "kid stuff" and thus need not be taken seriously. Which means little or no thought is given to fleshing out the world, the characters, or the plots. People get handed the Idiot Ball on a regular basis because it serves the needs of the story. Nobody talks to anyone else, because a two second conversation would clear up the misunderstanding and end the conflict. They pay no attention to the consequences of people having powers, and give no thought to how they could be used imaginatively.

 

But the audience, even the kids, aren't stupid. They can look at the hackneyed plot and see immediately how it could be solved in two seconds...while it takes the heroes 44 minutes to figure it out.

 

And now the important question.

 

If you wanted a TV show with super heroes in it; what would YOU do? How would you make it work?

 

What would you put in? What would you leave out?

 

There's a lot. But one point stands out above all the others. I'd assemble a brain trust to play the part of the five year-old child in the Evil Overlord list. Gamers, probably, because the ones I know are scary good at finding loopholes and bending rules til they break. Ask them what THEY would do if they had these powers. How would they use them? How would they abuse them? How would they STOP someone else using and abusing these powers? If they were the authorities, how would they respond to these situations. If THEY were confronted with the Plot du Jour, how would THEY handle it?

 

Ideally this brain trust would be the WRITERS. Sadly, that doesn't appear to be an option based on most superhero shows so far. So I have the brain trust create a campaign (series) bible, and compel the writers to work within those guidelines.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: TV show concept

 

Short answer: Empowered, this fall on Adult Swim.

[Hermit]

Re: TV show concept

 

Lois and Clark ran for a pretty good time IIRC. It had capes, powers, etc. It wasn't strict superhero action, but a lot of the public was sated.

 

One thing that might work would be getting Kurt Busiek on it and doing something akin to Astro-City as a made for TV series ( I hear Astro-City will be a movie, if so, yay). Play up the human angle while not neglecting the superheroics. Have the population portrayed as taking superheroes in stride instead of deriding the costumes because it's been that way since ww2 or whatever.

 

Sometimes, what I think those concerned with the Special Effects budget should do is get some state of the art animators , some actors who do both live action AND Voice acting, and then mix it up. Have the secret identities scenes acted out and filmed regularly, but as soon as the costume goes on, make a transition to the animated (Same voices) and go nuts with some of the most detailed and spectacular power displays ever seen... then when the mask comes off...transition back, and everyone is 'live' again.

 

That could flop utterly, but I'd love to see someone at least try it

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: TV show concept

 

There is a fine balance between having fun with the powers, which draws viewer in initially, and telling a good story (this week on Smallville, Clark amazingly encounters even more kryptonite!). The powers play an important role, but they shouldn't be the only thing. And as sinanju points out, you really need a lot of clever people writing so that you don't leave open loopholes or make the storyline too contrived or let the empowered characters become too powerful just because it is convenient in one episode (seriously, Peter Petrelli in Heroes had to be an aggravatingly stupid individual to keep him from dominating everything).

 

I have no illusions about doing TV myself, but I would love to see Joss Whedon do an X-Men type series on TV; not the X-Men but mutants of his own creation.

[Karmakaze]

Re: TV show concept

 

And yet, Smallville has been very successful...

[Hermit]

Re: TV show concept

 

And yet' date=' Smallville has been very successful...[/quote']

 

I keep getting the feeling I left on the wrong seasons.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: TV show concept

 

And yet' date=' Smallville has been very successful...[/quote']

 

Yeah, but it did well despite the fact it was about Superman, not because of it. Well, IMHO.

 

Of course, to be fair, Superman is kind of over-the-top to begin with, so writing a series about him has got to be a challenge.

[RexMundi]

Re: TV show concept

 

Marvels got a few shows coming back. I've got an idea, but I need time to think of how to write it up. Tomorrow.

 

~Rex

[Orion]

Re: TV show concept

 

If you wanted a TV show with super heroes in it; what would YOU do? How would you make it work?

What would you put in? What would you leave out?

 

First of all, it would have to be written for an adult, not kids. Next, it would have to feature adults, not kids. If I wanted kids, there are already plenty of shows for me to watch. I'd probably not have much in the way of romance and family life. Take your typical cop show - that's about the level of family activity I'd want. Show the realistic affects that supers would have on society: religious haters, cape chasers, pro and con vigilante actions, etc. Animated or live action, makes no difference to me. The movie Hancock and the comic book Powers would be the feel I would want, not the Superman movies, which always left me cold.

[Asperion]

Re: TV show concept

 

the way that I would do my super-series would be to have the first few episodes be before anyone (on the planet) gets any super powers so that we can get to know the people behind the mask. Then there would be something that makes random people get powers (including the heros in the show). None of the people would possess powerful powers (nothing that totally stops the average firearm or bends steel). At first no one either knows what powers they have or to fully understand them. Over the course of the series not only do the heros (and everyone else) have to deal with other powered individuals and the public but also try to figure out their own powers. (This includes deciding on if they will go the hero or villain route - some of the best "heros" are actually villains) Just what is mentioned here could easily fill at least one full season.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: TV show concept

 

would the six million dollar man bea good example ofa super-hero show?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: TV show concept

 

I'd style it like a classic comic book superhero world, with a JLA/Avengers type of team.

 

Everyone uses costumes and public aliases. Most of the villains are more down-to-earth in their dress code, but still use code-names, nicknames, and other pseudonyms.

 

Superheroes have been real for a relatively short time. The main characters are the first of their kind. The pilot is about how they all come together.

 

About two-thirds of the stories would deal with modern-day issues, social questions, and other things that we worry about in our everyday world. These could range from nuclear weapons to life as a celebrity. The rest would be stories along the lines of "what if superpowers were real?" -- the kind of thing that couldn't happen in our world, but affect the main characters personally.

 

That would be my starting point, at least.

[Hermit]

Re: TV show concept

 

I'd style it like a classic comic book superhero world, with a JLA/Avengers type of team.

 

Everyone uses costumes and public aliases. Most of the villains are more down-to-earth in their dress code, but still use code-names, nicknames, and other pseudonyms.

 

Superheroes have been real for a relatively short time. The main characters are the first of their kind. The pilot is about how they all come together.

 

About two-thirds of the stories would deal with modern-day issues, social questions, and other things that we worry about in our everyday world. These could range from nuclear weapons to life as a celebrity. The rest would be stories along the lines of "what if superpowers were real?" -- the kind of thing that couldn't happen in our world, but affect the main characters personally.

 

That would be my starting point, at least.

 

I'd watch your show

[kahuna's bro]

Re: TV show concept

 

as would i

[quozaxx]

Re: TV show concept

 

I think one of the main things writers need to do, if a new show comes out, is to never EVER see or go into the future.

 

Let something bad happen (not climatic like destroying New York, but bad) and then have the supers fix it as best as they can. Have them deal with real things along with super criminals (like disaster relief / rescue).

 

I'd prefer a live action (as apposed to animated) series. I love the idea of a super hero world (like DC or Marvel), but have it happen recently, like in the past 10 or 20 years. That reason should be definable. Like a meteor, radiation, alien, or something like that.

 

I love all the ideas of hiring someone JUST to keep out the loopholes. Heroes should have to deal with things like how to keep the villain, vigilantism, adoring fans, and other things comic readers (and the audience) thinks of.

 

What happens when little Timmy dresses up like his super idol and gets hurt because of it. How would the hero deal with it?

[Cassandra]

Re: TV show concept

 

The first season of Wonder Woman was my favorite for obvious reasons, but I thought that The Greatest American Hero captured a lot of the flavor of a superhero campaign. You had a hero with a set of standard powers (with flight that clearly had an activation roll), and an Uncontrollable VPP. There was a follower (FBI Agent Bill Maxwell) and a DNPC (Pam Davidson).

 

The Adventures of Superman Seasons One and Two also captured the feel of a gritty campaign.

 

Here are my thoughts.

 

One, have a small group of heroes (like say Stargate SG1) who are part of a larger organization. They operate on their own for the most part, but can expect some support and equal amounts of interferance. Keep the support personel to a minimum. There has been an annoying attempt to have a new show with a built in "Scoobie Gang" since Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Such an attempt killed helped kill Veronica Mars (although the fact that her favorite drink seemed to be a roofie was another factor).

 

Two, well a sinister organization as a main enemy isn't a bad idea, have the heroes focus on other threats. There is a tendency for shows to deal with one overarching evil force every week, and more often then not it gets boring. It's a long march to some supposed realization that ever comes. Anyone watch Persons Unknown? Tell me if you can explain what was going on except an attempt to capture the spirit of The Prisoner and failing.

 

Three, have the heroes to be genuinely good people with some quirks and just a few problems. Having a psychopathic killer on a team might seem cool, but having to some up with reasons for him not to kill someone will get old real fast.