GoldenAge Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... I'm actually excited about the character himself. He's a great gateway to the inclusion of the Paladin Project in Epic City. 7th Sign may still be around: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix240 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... That assumes that many of my major villains/NPCs walk around prepared for any contingency. Hardly realistic (even in a comicbook context) How reasonable it is depends on how often or how common this ability and those like it are in the campaign and the NPC's nature and that's entirely up to you as GM, of course Will the power work as a Sense or will the player have to actively decide to use it? If he does it seems less dangerous to mystery heavy campaign than Telepathy depending on how you define "Evil." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronosnight Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... Now worries GA, Judgment won't be playing with us, he is still holding a grudge, and will be moving away in a few weeks so you won't have to worry about the power. The power shows sins more than evil, and didn't show times, if a man committed a violent crime sometime in his past it would still register, it was built more to show true evil things, like demons and devils, and darkshards. The curse (what he called it) was more that then anything, he saw the evil of mankind, not evil it's self. Great character concept, I'll take most of the credit thank you =) but like I said, he won't be playing anywho. -T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... Keep in mind that while we may define some people as "evil" by their beliefs or actions, almost no-one who isn't profoundly deranged actually thinks of themselves as evil. In a villain's mind, his position is justified; as the saying goes, "everyone is the hero of their own story." Of course this doesn't include demons or other monsters who are evil by definition, and willingly choose to revel in it. So, if your character's Detect was defined by the self-image of its subject, its usefulness would be much more limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... Now worries GA, Judgment won't be playing with us, he is still holding a grudge, and will be moving away in a few weeks so you won't have to worry about the power. The power shows sins more than evil, and didn't show times, if a man committed a violent crime sometime in his past it would still register, it was built more to show true evil things, like demons and devils, and darkshards. The curse (what he called it) was more that then anything, he saw the evil of mankind, not evil it's self. Great character concept, I'll take most of the credit thank you =) but like I said, he won't be playing anywho. -T That's even easier to build. Shame about the rest I liked where that character was leading. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... Keep in mind that while we may define some people as "evil" by their beliefs or actions, almost no-one who isn't profoundly deranged actually thinks of themselves as evil. In a villain's mind, his position is justified; as the saying goes, "everyone is the hero of their own story." Of course this doesn't include demons or other monsters who are evil by definition, and willingly choose to revel in it. So, if your character's Detect was defined by the self-image of its subject, its usefulness would be much more limited. Thing is though. Comic Book Game/Setting, hence, what "we" define as Evil, is irrelevant compared to what the setting and the GM says Evil Is. Evil in Comic Stories is pretty Definitive. As the Spectre or the Ghost Rider. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... Hey, just offering interpretations that may lead to useful options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... I know, that's why I'm gonna swipe it for something nefarious in my own games. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... I know, that's why I'm gonna swipe it for something nefarious in my own games. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... a good definition of evil is the unwillingness to consider your fellow man as valuable in and of their own right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... a good definition of evil is the unwillingness to consider your fellow man as valuable in and of their own right. So.....that would make, 99.9999999999% of the people on the Internet Evil? ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix240 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... So.....that would make, 99.9999999999% of the people on the Internet Evil? ~Rex Sounds about right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... This conversation reminded me of this little exchange. Technically it's about "sin" not "evil" but her it is anyway... Granny Weatherwax and Pastor Oats discussing sin in Terry Pratchett's Carpe Jugulum: An old woman (who happens to be a witch) and a priest are sitting by the road having a conversation. (The conversation starts on the classic subject of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?") "Sixteen!" "You've counted sixteen?" said Oats eventually. "No, but it is as good an answer as any you'll get. And that's what you holy men discuss is it?" "Not usually. There is a very interesting debate raging at the moment on the nature of sin, for example." "And what do they think? Against it, are they?" "It is not as simple as that. It's not a black and white issue. There are so many shades of gray." "Nope." "Pardon?" There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is." "It's a lot more complicated than that--" "No it ain't. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they're getting worried that they won't like the truth. People as things, that's where it starts." "Oh, I'm sure there are worse crimes-" "But they Starts with thinking about people as things…" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin2 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... This conversation reminded me of this little exchange. Technically it's about "sin" not "evil" but her it is anyway... Granny Weatherwax and Pastor Oats discussing sin in Terry Pratchett's Carpe Jugulum: Like otherpeople have mentioned you have to define evil. Also with sin your definitions of sin very from religion to religion. Some counting drinking alcohol or eating certain food or foods prepared in a certain way as a ”sin”. So would they be counted as evil? Very few characters have evil written on their character sheet and Hero does not have an alignment system so the power would have to be more specific than just detecting evil. Can you detect complications? That will allow some psychological complications to be picked up. Also the majority of us would have thought about or done something that some other person would have counted as evil (drinking and then driving, not declairing all tax possibilities, fancying the neighbours wife / husband etc). Is it limited to evil thought or just evil acts? And how evil do these thoughts or acts have to be before you register as evil enough to be detected as evil and how long does it wear off? I think allof this sounds like some sort of telepathy power to scan for specific memories of “evil” acts. This would need a veryhigh EGO +20 / 30. Obviously mental defence would protect against it. Al so it would be difficult to do this AOE so would be one person at a time with plenty of time for break out rolls. So a very limited power that takes a very long time to scan people and anyone with mental defence should be OK. You also have the law and a character trying to mentally scan everyone he meets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cygnia Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... "It's all blue, guys..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix240 Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... You could use an ability like this as a plot hook. Barring some campaign specific reason just becauase a character perceives someone as "evil" (whatever the definition) that doesn't give them the ability to do anything about it without proof that they're doing something wrong. Generally, they're have to investigate and gather evidence to back up what they "know". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... I once considered the drawbacks of the Detect Evil in D&D (had a Paladin Power Gamer) and here is what I got: Not every enemy is evil. The fake hostages could very well just do their job (be mercenaries). Perhaps they even have a small, sick child at home and need the money or have some other, non-evil motivation. In Saw the persumed villian was actually just another victim of the real villian. The same way animal intelligence beings taht want to eat you aren't evil. They are just following instincts. And that mugger is not interested in doing harm to you, he really only wants your money. Sometimes people are evil, but not the villian. That baker that beats his children and wife? Righteous evil, but most likely not the villian. Lies aren't evil: If they were, every unsaid thruth would trigger his sense and every single person would register as evil. So it boils down to two things: It either only detect people that a totally corrupted (the Joker, Two-Face, Dr. Destroyer, Talisman) or it is so wide that it will detect everybody, inlcuding your Image in the mirror and your housecat. Well, housecats are evil, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... This conversation reminded me of this little exchange. Technically it's about "sin" not "evil" but her it is anyway... Granny Weatherwax and Pastor Oats discussing sin in Terry Pratchett's Carpe Jugulum: Yes, that was an interesting conversation and certainly a simple, correct answer. Also with sin your definitions of sin very from religion to religion. Some counting drinking alcohol or eating certain food or foods prepared in a certain way as a ”sin”. So would they be counted as evil? I think here is good time to point out, that Star Wars had a absolute definition of the Dark Side. That one was unaffected by how your culture views a certain act. Afaik every scenario with a relevant moral system goes a similar way. If your culture considers it "right" to torture and kill a virgin during you wedding ceremony, this is still evil. I think the Carpe Jugulum definition gives you a suprisingly simple benchmark to define Evil/Sin. I think allof this sounds like some sort of telepathy power to scan for specific memories of “evil” acts. This would need a veryhigh EGO +20 / 30. Obviously mental defence would protect against it. Al so it would be difficult to do this AOE so would be one person at a time with plenty of time for break out rolls. So a very limited power that takes a very long time to scan people and anyone with mental defence should be OK. You also have the law and a character trying to mentally scan everyone he meets. Waaay to complicated. Detect Sins (3 points), Part of the Mental Sense group, Naturally blocked by any form of Mental defense. The use of this "Sense" could still violate a persons privacy, the same way a scanner does in SciFi settings. Well' date=' housecats are evil, you know.[/quote'] Some people say the same about squirrels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... And violate a persona's privacy in such a way, that would be itself "evil". (as in mind/memory "violation") Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... And violate a persona's privacy in such a way' date=' that would be itself "evil". (as in mind/memory "violation")[/quote'] Fringe chase. We talk about something that accesses the information, but only returns a evaluation and not the real data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... It's not that hard to define as far as Comic Books go. Just Ask Characters like The Confessor, Captain Marvel (DC version), Adam Warlock (Or better yet, the Magus), The Crusader (Who could take on Thor while his Faith held), Etrigan, Blue Devil, Ghost Rider, Ragman, Vengeance, The Spectre, guys from back in the Day like Nightman, St. George, The Shadow, etc etc etc ...... It doesn't get muddled until you try and drag real world opinion, into a game setting. Such a power is a great plot hook, especially if defined and built correctly with regards to the setting you want to use. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin2 Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... Waaay to complicated. Detect Sins (3 points), Part of the Mental Sense group, Naturally blocked by any form of Mental defense. The use of this "Sense" could still violate a persons privacy, the same way a scanner does in SciFi settings. Three points? OK looking up the detects it may be a 5 pointer but you are still trying to detect something that is not clearly defined on a character sheet (like magic, a mind etc). Your assumption of sin would have to be defined as a sin from the detecters point of view. Would this detect the level of sin as well or just a person who has sinned? Most people would be detected by a detect sin power. Hero's, villains, soldiers, police would possibly flag up to the power. Would guilt also effect it (the cop feeling very guilty for shooting someone dead for shooting at him or the villain who does not give a damn for killing someone)? My thoughts would be who ever had the power would have a constant headache from trying to judge the level of evil / sin from everyone around him everytime he switched it on. Also what can they do? The person over there is evil. What can I do about it? Nothing as you have no proof to the evil just the evil ometer has beeped. You would then need the telpathy to find out the exact evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... Kind of jumping to the end of the thread ... but I'd veto the power, were I you. It looks like, no matter how it's built, it's going to be a colossal pain in the butt and open up issues that are just going to bog the game down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted August 1, 2011 Report Share Posted August 1, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... I never veto Anything in a Super Hero game if it fits the character. Once Evil and or Sin is defined by the game master in said setting the rest is Cake. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted August 2, 2011 Report Share Posted August 2, 2011 Re: Detect Evil in your superhero game... Three points? OK looking up the detects it may be a 5 pointer but you are still trying to detect something that is not clearly defined on a character sheet (like magic' date=' a mind etc). Your assumption of sin would have to be defined as a sin from the detecters point of view.[/quote'] It has likely no effect in combat (unless the character has a Smite Evil/Sinner power) and the only Sense Modifier it get's for free is Range. It's neither Disriminatory, nor a Sense (still costs a Half Phase to use), only works in a 120° cone, is subject to range modifiers and any Sense Affecting power targetting the Mental Group (inlcuding Mental Flash, Invisibility and Shape Shift). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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