Asperion Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Someone has recently discovered a way to download all of a person's memories, beliefs, attitudes, everything that makes them the person that they are who they are into a new human body. This will be a normal cloned organic body, not some fancy robot or alien or anything with superpowers (although some powers could be obtained for the right price). It is proven that this new body (without upgrades) is basically a normal human body subject to the same things that will effect a normal human in the same manner as a natural born human. I am wondering if you believe that such a thing is at all possible. If it is possible, would you go for it assuming that the cost was covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Impudite Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality If we're talking about something similar to the Gold Cross Policy from Car Wars, it all hinges on whether or not human science can produce the means to 1) archive a human's memories outside the brain and 2) grow a complete, adult clone replacement body without it taking 18+ years. If there's actually anyone out there in the scientific community who's working on these, I wish them all the luck. And yes, I would be willing to pay for such a service if it were available and I had the money for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinanju Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality If such a thing were possible, I might buy into it--but for my loved ones*, not for myself. See, even if the clone is identical to me in every respect, including every thought and memory, it is not me. _I_ am dead. The "me" that wakes up in the Gold Cross facility will no doubt feel like me, and be very grateful to be alive...but he won't be me. _I_ will still be extinct. And he'll know it just as well as I did. *Assuming they were interested. They may well feel the same way about this that I do, and not consider a replica of me worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
csyphrett Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality Sounds like Eclipse Phase and the books by Richard Morgan abou the brain being downloaded across long distances CES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality Someone has recently discovered a way to download all of a person's memories, beliefs, attitudes, everything that makes them the person that they are who they are into a new human body. This will be a normal cloned organic body, not some fancy robot or alien or anything with superpowers (although some powers could be obtained for the right price). It is proven that this new body (without upgrades) is basically a normal human body subject to the same things that will effect a normal human in the same manner as a natural born human. I am wondering if you believe that such a thing is at all possible. If it is possible, would you go for it assuming that the cost was covered. Probably possible, but I think the clone at the time of "Transplant" is probably going to be closer to a toddler than an adult. Yeah, I'd go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmadanNaBriona Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality Short form. I'm down. Long form, I am of the opinion that *I* am the combination of an amazing neural network, and the soup of chemicals my body cranks out in order to make said network do it's dance. As long as I consider myself me, I'm me. Oh, and I do believe in reincarnation (actually, much like McCoy, I BELIEVE in reincarnation. Long story.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starcloud Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality See "The Old Man's War" by Stross and "Altered Carbon" by Richard K. Morgan. Personally? I would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality I would always let others go first. I am never the first one to take a new technology, wich is ironically since I work in IT-area. I always let the others stumble across and suffer the childhood problems of something new. Even if it works, I still would not do it. Because there is no point. I am still dead/an old geezer. A copy of me with rejuvenated body is running around. At worst this guy has to go thorugh all the emotions and troubles from puperty upwards again. Having all your Hormon Glands rejuvenated means you have to deal with emotions stronger than my last memories prepare him for (of course he might draw from my life-expertise to come). At best I think it would be a way to procreate when you are not normally able to (perhaps even repair the problem during cloning/fast gestation so your "brainchild" can live normally). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnaskar Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality Also used in "Pandora's Star" by Peter F. Hamilton. I'd go for it (in about 50 years). I am my memories and beliefs, so if they're in a body, so am I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Folded Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality Someone has recently discovered a way to download all of a person's memories, beliefs, attitudes, everything that makes them the person that they are who they are into a new human body. This will be a normal cloned organic body, not some fancy robot or alien or anything with superpowers (although some powers could be obtained for the right price). It is proven that this new body (without upgrades) is basically a normal human body subject to the same things that will effect a normal human in the same manner as a natural born human. I am wondering if you believe that such a thing is at all possible. If it is possible, would you go for it assuming that the cost was covered. Possible? Maybe. Very iffy, though. We don't even have a basic model of how simple sensory memory works, much less personality components. Would I? Probably not. I agree with sinanju. It's not me, it's a copy of me. I'm still dead, and I can think of a lot of other ways to spend my resources before I die. OTOH, it would be incredibly useful in some fields. Doctors and scientists that could continue working and refining their abilities. As long as no-one (including the clone) makes the mistake of thinking of them as being the same person, it'd be fine. But that's a societal benefit, not a personal one (except to stoke the ego). It could also be useful on generational ships, to avoid the breakdown of information communication to each new generation of crew. For me, probably not. For others, if that's what they want, fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality It could also be useful on generational ships' date=' to avoid the breakdown of information communication to each new generation of crew.[/quote'] Now that you noted that, I remembere something: In Sword of the Stars Unvierse exist a insectoid species called Hiver, who never developed FTL drives, but can move imediately between planets they placed one of their portals (a slowest offense, fastest defense setup). Means they have to place them at STL speed. One of their racial traits is that memory is stored in crystalline form. A queen can consume thes crystalls, and pass about 80% of the memory to a newborn. Both a way to inspire distinguished service (you get reborn) and practically for the generation-fleets needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asperion Posted September 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality I believe that with current tech we cannot create copies of humans. There is simply too much that goes into a human to make a proper copy. However in time someone will figure out how to make a successful blank copy that will allow a person's being to be properly copied onto it. At that point we will start seeing this come about and people will be able to make copies of themselves. At the same time people will question if such a thing should be allowed. Some people will say yes others will way no depending on their religious and/or ethical view. Personally, I believe that this one body is the one that we were given by Nature with the abilities that we have for reasons that are not always known (at least to us humans). Some forms of modifications are allowed (drugs, surgery) but this goes beyond what is allowed and makes for too many problems, MANY more than it will solve. As a result I will not go for it, even if it were totally free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted September 10, 2011 Report Share Posted September 10, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality I believe in a soul, so I wouldnt. I'm still dead. (note: though I do personally believe a clone would have a soul, it just wouldnt be the same one as mine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality I wouldn't do it, but not for the reasons others have given. I'm a pessimist and cynic. Not only do I think the world is becoming a worse place to live every year, I see absolutely no chance of that ever being reversed. having to live 150 years, rather than just 75, seems like punishment to me, not a reward. Now if I could have a new body now that fixed all the problems of my current one, I'd go for it in a heartbeat. I don't want to live longer, I just want to live better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ockham's Spoon Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality I think cloning people genetically is almost certainly possible. But it would not be the same person; too much of your personality is shaped by your environment. I doubt anyone could duplicate something as complex as a mature human brain so that it could be transfered into another body, so while your clones might survive you, they would be more like your children and not a new you. Even if it were possible to transfer brains or brain patterns between bodies, you have some major ethical issues to deal with. Personally I think it would be a bad idea. Just watch Joss Whedon's "Dollhouse" for a small taste of what could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality By the way, is it just me or isn't this, with a few changes in termonology, what the current cryonics industry is promising? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality By the way' date=' is it just me or isn't this, with a few changes in termonology, what the current cryonics industry is promising? They are more generally. They say "until medical tech can heal what you have", wich may not nessesary be age. The especially aim for terminal diseases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted September 13, 2011 Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality What if you go on an adventure, and don't come back, so they activate your backup? And then, your backup takes over your life where you left off, working at your job, raising your kids, loving your wife and so on . . . and then you finally make it home from your adventure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality Pistols at dawn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality What if you go on an adventure' date=' and don't come back, so they activate your backup? And then, your backup takes over your life where you left off, working at your job, raising your kids, loving your wife and so on . . . and then you finally make it home from your adventure?[/quote'] What if you go on an adventure, and don't come back, so they replace you at your job, your spouse remarries, new stepparent raises your kids . . . and then you finally make it home from your adventure? Seems like the problem is that life went on without you, clone or no clone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality Yes, I would totally go for it. This would be a great technology for soldiers and cops who die in the line of duty. Then again, this kind of technology could create of society of extreme risk takers who don't worry about their "meat" bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevelon Posted September 14, 2011 Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality If we are getting theological: does the clone body have a soul of its own? If so, what we are talking about here is serial murder to keep yourself alive. Something like this was used in the Miles Vorkosagan saga, where clones were grown at accelerated rates for brain transplants as a life extension option for ruthless people. In those books the clones were raised as people until it was time, rather then just lumps of meat in a vat. But there is a lot of grey area in what constitutes The Self. Are you the same in a new body, or someone else? Personally, I'm good on one normal lifespan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted September 15, 2011 Report Share Posted September 15, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality I have a concept similar to this in my dormant campaign--as clone insurance, except at the most expensive policy level, your consciousness is mentally "uploaded" to a customized psi-sensitive drone, who subsequently infuses it into your fully-grown, "blank slate" clone(which has already been encoded with your skills and memories, stored to an "organic hard drive" based on your most recent scan). Because of the special requirements, only a small fraction of the populace has access to this sort of thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravor Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality Seems to me like the process wouldn't be much different then falling asleep and waking back up, after all do you really know that a perfect copy of yourself doesn't crawl through your mirror and replace you each night during the Witching Hour? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Re: Transplanted Immortality Seems to me like the process wouldn't be much different then falling asleep and waking back up' date=' after all do you [b']really[/b] know that a perfect copy of yourself doesn't crawl through your mirror and replace you each night during the Witching Hour? I would remember crawlign through the mirror and replacing my former self. And waht does it do in nights where I don't sleep? Also there are sleep laboratories where people get 24/7 supervision in a mirrorless room with cameras and an EEG. I think them might have noticed that by now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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