A Rogue Like character

[Opale]

Helloooo !

 

Here is another of my questions about building one of my favorite Marvel character power framework. Rogue.

 

She's a power stealer at first, and her touch cause target to loose it's powers, to be weakened and to have his/her thoughts scanned.

 

So this i s how I try to do it. But I dont know if the building is good with the rules as it's a bit complex. And I don't know either how to make the powers with a limited time effect, Rogue stealing powers doesn't last long in my memories (one minute or so ? )

 

Please, critic , comment and advise this !

 

and Thanks in advance !

 

Mimicking Opale

 

 

[TABLE=width: 0]

[TR]

[TD=class: small]Power Stealer[/TD]

[TD=class: small][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: small]47[/TD]

[TD=class: small]1) Suppress Powers: Drain Powers 4d6, Constant (+1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Expanded Effect (x7 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+3) (200 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Skin Contact Required (-1), Unified Power (Power Stealer Abilities; -1/4)

[/TD]

[TD=class: small]0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: small]14[/TD]

[TD=class: small]2) Draining Touch: Drain STUN 4d6, Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (70 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Skin Contact Required (-1), Always On (-1/2), Linked (Suppress Powers; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4), Unified Power (Power Stealer Abilities; -1/4)

[/TD]

[TD=class: small]0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: small]16[/TD]

[TD=class: small]3) Thoughts Stealing: Telepathy 9d6 (Human class of minds), Persistent (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (79 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Skin Contact Required (-1), Always On (-1/2), Linked (Suppress Powers; Greater Power is Constant or in use most or all of the time; -1/4), Unified Power (Power Stealer Abilities; -1/4)

[/TD]

[TD=class: small]0[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD=class: small]93[/TD]

[TD=class: small]Mimicking Stolen Powers: Variable Power Pool (Mimicry Pool), 80 base + 200 control cost, (180 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Skin Contact Required (-1), Powers May Only Be As Powerful As Target's Powers (-1/2), VPP Mimics Target's Powers (-1/2), Requires a successful HTH Attack Roll (-1/2), Only For MultiForm (MultiForm is "alternate" Form with all of character's powers and exact copies of target's powers and power-related Complication) (-1/2), Power Fails To Work IF Cannot Copy Entire Target's Powers (-1/4); all slots Time Limit Effect (One Minute of Multiform Effect, after that the character looses the powers she mimicked; -3/4), Unified Power (Power Stealer Abilities; -1/4), Stops Working If Knocked Out (-1/4)[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[Christopher]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

Sounds like a good approach.

But I wouldn't give her a -2 "No Conscious Controll" on the VPP, as she can always decide to touch/drain/copy someone.

I am also not so certain about the "stops workign if knocked out". At least in the movie she could drain and benefit from wolverines healing ability when being almost dead and unconscious.

[Opale]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

well, there is the Require Skin contact limiter, the NCC limiter was to put she can't stop herself when touching someone skin. If you see another way to do it.

Good note on the Knocked out thingy.

 

But How to make the whole framework effect fade within a minute ? which limiter to use ?

[Markdoc]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

One possibility: when Rogue drains a target's powers, she usually KO's them. You use STUN suppress for this effect, but when I built a rogue clone, I found it a lot cheaper to simply NND them than try to drain all their powers, plus their Stun. The GM can easily handwave the fact that their powers are mostly nonfunctional when they are KO'd, because they're not going to be using active powers. And I say "mostly non-functional" because in no case can I recall people suffering greatly from Rogue's power drain, unless it was the point of the story (like Wolvie losing his healing power). Jugs loses his invulnerability ... but actually still doesn't get hurt by a punch that'd crumple steel. Storm loses her flight - but somehow isn't hurt by the fall, etc etc. The "loses powers briefly" thing seems to be mostly special effects, not actually modeled in the source material

 

And the 200 active points you used on Drain, gets you a 40d6 NND, which will KO most people pretty good In contrast the 4d6 STUN drain reduces 14 points of STUN per phase - your average brick is going to be able to survive 4-6 phases of drain, even without any power defence, which means they're going to be active while she is trying to drain them. In addition, if she tried to take someone who was too powerful, Rogue would collapse herself. If you build the NND with a side effect (all or nothing, side effect: is affected by own power if opponent remains conscious) it actually models this pretty well, I think.

 

That gives you a potential solution to the "1 minute" problem: your Rogue clone has access to the powers only as long as the target is KO'd (that'd be IMHO a -3/4 limitation). She can cling on longer to put the target under for longer - we've seen that too in the comics .... but doing so triggers another side effect: the possibility that some changes become permanent, also potentially triggering mental changes. I built that as a transform that could also add powers and disadvantages.

 

cheers, Mark

[Opale]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

Wow ..

 

Now I feel like totally blonde again.. thanks Mark ^^

 

I like feeling blonde sometimes when it gets me to learn something.

 

I'll resume this : "use the system, don't let the system use you !"

 

I'm seriously going to look after this solution, as it's both elegant and simplier.

 

You got rep'ted !

 

System spoiled Opale

[Christopher]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

well, there is the Require Skin contact limiter, the NCC limiter was to put she can't stop herself when touching someone skin. If you see another way to do it.

Good note on the Knocked out thingy.

 

But How to make the whole framework effect fade within a minute ? which limiter to use ?

I would give her only a -1 NCC. While it is somewhat oncontrolled, it's not near the -2 level (wich means neitehr activation nor effect would be in any way controllable).

 

For the "1 minute fade":

Just use time Limit (1 Minute, -2) from 6E1 346. It is somewhat more abrupt than a gradual fading, but any form of Drain/Aid effect on Multiform is a acounting nightmare anyway.

If you prefer gradual fading: How about fewer points into the VPP, but Linking a triggered "Aid (VPP)" to the Power Drain? You would have to figure out how VPP and Drains interact (especially with limitations on the controll cost) but it might still be a posibility.

[Doc Samson]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

I will try to help but please note that many of my builds have been called...questionable (think of a word that rhymes with "rule hit"). The problem with characters like Rogue is that they are much more effective in the comics than they ever should be in a game. This results in them not being very fun to play when you are not as effective as you wanted to be.

 

That said, you are on the right track with the Multiform VPP. This seems to be the most rules friendly way to mimic powers that fall into non-power framework categories, such as Skills and Talents.

 

As far as the Telepathy goes, with GM permission you may not need it. Ask if you can define your Multiform as a form that includes the target's memories. Remember that a Multiform is essentially a new character. With GM approval, you can define the character however you wish, within the point restrictions of the power.

 

That leaves us with the Drains. Depending on how often Power Defense is used in your games, you may have 270 Active Points of Powers that can be nullified by 15 Active Points of Pow DEF. Not to mention, it is a rare character in the comics (to me anyway as I can't think of any) that is resistant to Rogue's powers. With GM permission, I recommend building the offensive aspect of the power as a second Multiform VPP, but with Useable As Attack. The target becomes a non-powered version of themselves. If you only want to take part of their powers, then define the Multiform (for that specific use of the power) as a weakened version of the target. In addition, Rogue doesn't always knock out people she touches. If you want the power to also knock the target out, then define the Multiform (for that specific use of the power) as a character with 0 STUN. Please note that all uses of Useable As Attack must include a common defense. This is easy, anyone with covered skin is defended.

 

In summary, I think that a two Multiform VPPs build is the way to go. It is simple, more cost effective, and can imitate every use of Rogue's powers that I have read about in the comics. It may also give your GM diarrhea.

[teh bunneh]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

If you have the Advanced Player's Guide, you can use the Possession power to simulate what Rogue does. I don't have my book in front of me so I can't recall the exact build with advantages and limitations, but essentially the power lets you take over another person's body, including all his powers. Rogue stays in her own body instead of possessing someone else, but the effects are basically the same.

[Doc Samson]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

That's interesting to me that you made that comparison bunneh. I was thinking about an old possession build we all tossed around here in the past when I wrote my suggestion. I have played a few possession characters and I think they share a lot in common with Rogue. They are what Hugh or Sean referred to as "toggle" characters. Either their power works and they are incredibly powerful, or it fails and they are ineffective. I also think that in game, a Rogue-like character fills the same role as a possessor, essentially knocking one bad guy out of the fight and adding their power set to the good guys.

[Opale]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

Thanks Samson

 

Actually I do this more for myself than for the other GM. And he gets diarreah everytime I propose him an enw character, been unsure of the control he has on the Game ^^

 

I can understand that tough I tend to be willing to create strange or complex characters.

 

I keep in the mind the two VPP with Multiform tough.

 

Thanks

 

Multi Opale

[Beast]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

always on covers it

NCC would only be useful if her power had range and could randomly zap targets

 

well, there is the Require Skin contact limiter, the NCC limiter was to put she can't stop herself when touching someone skin. If you see another way to do it.

Good note on the Knocked out thingy.

 

But How to make the whole framework effect fade within a minute ? which limiter to use ?

[Doc Samson]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

Bah, I just read that Useable On Others shouldn't be used for Multiform. I will have to amend my suggestion to an NND (same defense as above) Transform with Improved Results Group (non-powered, partially powered, ect.)

[Christopher]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

That leaves us with the Drains. Depending on how often Power Defense is used in your games' date=' you may have 270 Active Points of Powers that can be nullified by 15 Active Points of Pow DEF.[/quote']

I think someone once posted a Drain, NDD (Requires Skin Contact) for a Rogue homage. At least in 6E this build was relatively cost-effective, considering that "clothing" is a very common defense. While full body clothing isn't that common, trying to target a "uncovered" part could carry an OCV penalty as per Hit Location table, or require a grab.

The NND might also work with the Transform (wich would have to cover body and psyche, so a Mental+Physical transform might be needed).

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

X-Men - Rogue

http://the-wild-hunt.org/

 

Cheers

 

QM

[Hyper-Man]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

If you have the Advanced Player's Guide' date=' you can use the [b']Possession [/b]power to simulate what Rogue does. I don't have my book in front of me so I can't recall the exact build with advantages and limitations, but essentially the power lets you take over another person's body, including all his powers. Rogue stays in her own body instead of possessing someone else, but the effects are basically the same.

 

I like this idea for the all or nothing aspect of Rogues power. I never would have came up with that on my own. A graduated effect sfx like Parasite would probably still need the VPP-Multiform though.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

That makes me wonder, would using the Possession option with a Damage Shield Advantage model such a character being able to mimic multiple people's powers at once?

[Christopher]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

I like this idea for the all or nothing aspect of Rogues power. I never would have came up with that on my own. A graduated effect sfx like Parasite would probably still need the VPP-Multiform though.

For one part she isn't all or nothing. In fact there are some example when she couldn't do more than a partial copy.

 

The other side is, that Posession doesn't sounds right for this:

It gives you access to the target memory and body, while disabling your own body (but not mind). You would also have to work around the fact that Posession is blocked by Ego/Mental Defense, wich makes no sense for Rogues powers.

[phoenix240]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

I'm sorry if If I'm being dense but I'm not seeing how the Possession Power would work for a Rogue like ability since she doesn't change bodies.

[Christopher]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

I'm sorry if If I'm being dense but I'm not seeing how the Possession Power would work for a Rogue like ability since she doesn't change bodies.

After some thinking, my best guess is:

Instead of taking controll of the entire body, she only takes controll of her targets powers (wich is a step down from entire body).

If it is that, find it the build very un-intuitive.

 

My position is still to use the most simply approache:

Rogues Powers are for me nothing more than a Drain + Mimiking, the same way Transfer is nothing more than Drain+Aid self.

Make the drain. Make the Mimik. Then let the Mimik require use of the Drain.

[assault]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

Basically, in the possession case, there's a character that has the abilities of the target, and a character that is incapacitated.

 

In the "standard" possession situation, the incapacitated body is that of the possessor, and the body with abilities is that of the target. In this case, the reverse is true - it's the target that is incapacitated, and the active body is that of the "possessor".

 

Essentially, the difference is cosmetic - a case of special effects, except when the two bodies take damage. In that case, the GM has to weasel things so that damage goes to the correct body. That shouldn't be a problem.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

But...

Wouldn't a Rogue-like character just be like a HERO write up of a D&D character, except all the powers and magic items are ASCII based?

[Christopher]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

But...

Wouldn't a Rogue-like character just be like a HERO write up of a D&D character, except all the powers and magic items are ASCII based?

You either tried to make a joke I cannot follow (despite knowing D&D and what ASCII is), or you don't understand that we talk about the Marvel Comicbook Character Rogue and her ability to drain and copy powers.

[assault]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

You either tried to make a joke I cannot follow (despite knowing D&D and what ASCII is)' date='[/quote']

 

This one.

[Enforcer84]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

ASCII based dungeon game called "Rogue."

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: A Rogue Like character

 

Roguelike

 

Yeah, it was a joke.