Flares from Iron Man

[captainNeda]

Ok quick quesion, how would anyone build the flares used in Iron man? Flash, Deflection, Blast, Barrier, AE Radius, line or Cone. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it. We see them used to confuse and detonate Heat seeking missiles early, we also see them used as a flash attack to get Iron Monger to release Iron Man. How would you build these?

[Christopher]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

Ok quick quesion' date=' how would anyone build the flares used in Iron man? Flash, Deflection, Blast, Barrier, AE Radius, line or Cone. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it. We see them used to confuse and detonate Heat seeking missiles early, we also see them used as a flash attack to get Iron Monger to release Iron Man. How would you build these?[/quote']

You started at the wrong point. You first should ask how the heat seakers are built.

 

They (as well as other missiles) could be built as automatons/self acting foci (APG II) with a Infrared Targetting Sense and a single "Kamikaze" attack. This is a quite common way to built missiles that need more than a phase too hit, can hit regardless of what happens with the firer, etc. They are also likely not affected by Deflection.

In that case:

Images or Flash to Infrared Perception (this targets the Sense regardless of Sense Group, but also only the sense).

 

Normaly infrared perception flash would not affect Normal sight, however given the special effects and (maybe) a power skill Roll the GM allowed Tony's player to do it anyway.

The use of flash to force your enemy to let go depends highly on inpropper reflexes. In world war hulk, hulk let wolverine cut his eyes out just so he could grab him. Ironmonger's Pilot however did the "inexperienced" thing: trying to shield his eyes/defend himself from the "burning" flares.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

Flash to all sight, since that includes IR perception; throwing off the heat-seeker would be more on the limited AI used in the missile rather than one of Iron Man's powers, I'd say.

[CptPatriot]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

Christopher is correct, the question of how missiles are built indeed affects how you buy the countermeasures. A Sidewinder, for example, is a heat seeking missile that explodes when it detects it is adjacent to its target.

 

A jet would either rely on having good situational awareness thanks to their wingman spotting the missile's smoke trail or might have advanced electro-optical systems that can detect the launch of a missile. Only then could they launch flares to confuse the sensors on the missile.

 

If a heat seeker missile is bought as a vehicle/automaton/self acting foci and is using Infrared targeting sense, then Images using Infrared could force the missile to make a Perception roll to determine the proper target.

[Christopher]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

Flash to all sight' date=' since that includes IR perception; throwing off the heat-seeker would be more on the limited AI used in the missile rather than one of Iron Man's powers, I'd say.[/quote']

I would not target the Sight Group. I would target Infrared Detection, the Sense:

"At the GM’s option, a character can buy a Sense-Affecting Power to affect all versions of a specific Sense, regardless of what Sense Group it belongs to. For example, a Heat Blast might Flash all types of Infrared Perception, regardless of whether the Infrared Perception is assigned to the Sight Group, Touch Group, or some other group. The character pays for such a power as if the power affected a Targeting Sense Group."

The only version they would not affect is a IR-perception bought in the Unusual Group (affecting one unusual Sense counts as targetting sense group cost wise - for each unusual Sense).

 

That those IR-Flares worked against Ironmonger as Flash, was simply a mater of Power Roll or Special Effect use.

[concord]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

This is what a real flare is made with... reading its description, I would say both normal sight and infra-red are covered by magnesium flares...

 

Magnesium is flammable, burning at a temperature of approximately 3,100 °C (3,370 K; 5,610 °F), and the autoignition temperature of magnesium ribbon is approximately 473 °C (746 K; 883 °F). It produces intense, bright, white light when it burns. Magnesium's high burning temperature makes it a useful tool for starting emergency fires during outdoor recreation. Other uses include flash photography, flares, pyrotechnics and fireworks sparklers.

[Christopher]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

This is what a real flare is made with... reading its description, I would say both normal sight and infra-red are covered by magnesium flares...

 

Magnesium is flammable, burning at a temperature of approximately 3,100 °C (3,370 K; 5,610 °F), and the autoignition temperature of magnesium ribbon is approximately 473 °C (746 K; 883 °F). It produces intense, bright, white light when it burns. Magnesium's high burning temperature makes it a useful tool for starting emergency fires during outdoor recreation. Other uses include flash photography, flares, pyrotechnics and fireworks sparklers.

What type of flare are you talkign about? A Signal or Decoy/Countermeasure flare? Those are two different kidn of shoes.

 

While it might have some sight based aspects, I would not consider it a flash or images vs. sight. The area illuminated is way to low and it's practially impossible to blind a target with your flares (wich is why I think there might have been a power Roll involved).

[Beast]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

I would go with a multipower and use different effects

Flash for getting Stane in the Iron Monger suit

Missile Defection

Missile Refection and any target(decoys or deceptive jamming to go after another target)

Images (Decoys)so now the missile can chase something else and maybe lure it into hitting somebody else

Darkness(use this and get behind cover or out of LOS and hope it sees a new target after it clears the darkness )

[Greywind]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

I'd just allow it as a Power stunt off of the anti-HS defense.

[Escafarc]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

You could buy it as DCV only vs attacks that use thermal targeting and Chaff would be vs radar targeted attacks.

[phoenix240]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

I'd go with an Images Power since their primary purpose is to draw off heat seekers and call the "Flash" effect against Iron Monger a power stunt/skill roll.

[CptPatriot]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

You could buy it as DCV only vs attacks that use thermal targeting and Chaff would be vs radar targeted attacks.

Missiles are explosive and thus are AoE attacks.

[Greywind]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

This is true, but at the velocities normally associated with flying, the target usually isn't in the vicinity if the counter-measures work as intended.

[Christopher]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

This is true' date=' but at the velocities normally associated with flying, the target usually isn't in the vicinity if the counter-measures work as intended.[/quote']

But DCV brings nothing if the Attack is AoE, hence Extra DCV vs. Thermal Targetting does not help.

 

 

Reading a little bit about the missiles, it seem to in part work on the fact that heatseeker missiles have a low perception/discrimintory ability. Just throwing something warm into thier path and cutting engine power (using Stealth while half moving) is enough to fool them.

[Escafarc]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

In the Ultimate Vehicle the AIM-7 Sparrow is built as a Vehicle and has the Can be Missile Deflected Complication. I would build Flares(and Chaff) as Skill levels to Block only vs the appropriate type of attack)

[Cassandra]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

DEX +5, DCV Only (-1/2), Only versus Heatseekers (-1/2), OIF: Flares (-1/2) 12 Points

[Christopher]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

DEX +5' date=' DCV Only (-1/2), Only versus Heatseekers (-1/2), OIF: Flares (-1/2) 12 Points[/quote']

5E has the option for DCV Skill Levels. Gives you a somewhat better Active Point Cost.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

DEX +5' date=' DCV Only (-1/2), Only versus Heatseekers (-1/2), OIF: Flares (-1/2) 12 Points[/quote']

 

As mentioned up thread though, DCV doesn't help against AoE Attacks.

[pinecone]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

Ok quick quesion' date=' how would anyone build the flares used in Iron man? Flash, Deflection, Blast, Barrier, AE Radius, line or Cone. I'm trying to figure out the best way to do it. We see them used to confuse and detonate Heat seeking missiles early, we also see them used as a flash attack to get Iron Monger to release Iron Man. How would you build these?[/quote']

+'s to DCV, only vs Heat seekers?

[Netherworldvet]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

Also some extra duration could be added. Additional limitations to cover real world flares that fall and not float where they are released.

[phoenix240]

Re: Flares from Iron Man

 

Wouldn't the build for this effect depend on hot Heat Seekers are defined in the campaign? It could be: Images vs Thermal Detection with continuing charges and one "image" (a hot target) only, maybe physical manifestation since the flares could (and probably would) be destroyed if subjected to damage.