Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

[Nolgroth]

Comic-Con: Women tired of groping geeks and credibility checks

 

That's something that I don't understand at all. When a woman chooses to create a costume for an event she is doing so to honor the source material and demonstrate her creativity. It is an outlet for her to express her enthusiasm and fondness for the source material that inspires her. As a man, I will not lie and say that some of those costumes are not "interesting" but that gives no more license to touch somebody without their consent as it gives a rapist consent because his victim dressed in a provocative manner. Plus, talk about a way to make the scene unpleasant for some really awesome costume designers. I couldn't imagine anything making somebody want to give up their hobby like somebody (or many somebodies) infringing on a basic need like personal space and....I can't find the right word. I think that creativity being snuffed out or at least damaged is sickening.

 

So why do people feel that they are allowed to just grab other people? I get uncomfortable when people stand too close to me and that's people that I care about. Strangers need to keep an arms length away. I would certainly respect that in others (circumstances depending - crowded buses sometimes require closer proximity than I am comfortable with). I just don't get it.

 

As for credibility checks, I am so woefully behind the geek culture times that I would fail them. I understand that concept a bit more though. Any sub-culture is going to establish a pecking order based on whatever criteria that culture feels is important. Men are competitive and (apparent from this thread) feel more than a little threatened about women "interloping" into geek structure. Sad, but something I can understand even if I don't condone it. I personally think that a group that has been historically weighted (heavily) in numbers towards males would welcome the opposite sex wanting to participate. To put a point onto it, how often are geek men going to meet members of the opposite sex that have similar interests? That there is a need for credibility checks shows me a severe sense of self-consciousness on the part of those that need them.

[Nolgroth]

"Look but don't touch" seems to be a difficult concept for some people.

 

You posted this while I was replying. Said it better probably than my wordy response did.

[Nolgroth]

The E3 thing doesn't really impact me. While many of those companies could use new blood, there are also familiar faces across every product line. Todd Howard, for instance, has been with Bethesda since before Oblivion. He is obviously gifted at making a presentation, so why would Bethesda want to replace him with somebody else just to fill a quota. That being said, a lot of presenters at E3 could have been replaced and if those replacements were ethnic minorities, women or whatever group, that would be fine too. To me, whomever is up there on stage should be engaging and able to talk intelligently about their product. Too many of the presenters were obviously geeks that were in charge or had some other important part of the game development process. That does not make a qualified presenter in my opinion.

 

Demanding that there be a certain spread of gender, race, religious or other criteria smacks of quotas and affirmative action. I prefer just using the most qualified candidate that can be found.

[Cygnia]

 

6 Totally Dumbass Ways People Tried To Teach Gender Equality

 

[Nolgroth]

Seems to me that those are sort of the opposite lessons. Don't ask for a raise? Allow professors to look down your blouse? Le sigh.

[Cygnia]

Arkham Knight’s Big Problem: Female Representation

 

(Trigger warning for images of violence towards women in Batman: Arkham Knight)

 

One of the side quests in Arkham Knight has you trying to save Catwoman from the Riddler, who has strapped an explosive collar to her neck. After completing one of the eight trials Batman and Catwoman are talking. Batman says “You must be honored.” Catwoman replies “At being what? Your motivation?” This exchange reads like a subconscious acknowledgement on the part of Rocksteady at the role of women in Arkham Knight: motivation for the player.

 

Every single female character of significance in Arkham Knight is made into a damsel-in-distress at some point. If you read my review you’ll know I railed on Rocksteady (the developers of Arkham Knight) for this, but let’s go in depth and really examine all the ways in which they devalued women into things to be saved or plot devices to fuel angst and make things feel serious. As a note, this piece contains spoilers for Arkham Knight related to its female characters, but I do not mention the Arkham Knight’s identity or the game’s ending.

[Pattern Ghost]

Seems to me that those are sort of the opposite lessons. Don't ask for a raise? Allow professors to look down your blouse? Le sigh.

 

I think the don't ask for a raise thing comes more from culture than sexism. Seems like he'd give the same response to a man. EDIT: OK, I just scrolled down and read his follow up. I change my answer. The guy's a freaking idiot.

[Cygnia]

A New Degree of Homophobia in Fire Emblem Fates

 

So, there’s a female character named Soleil in Fire Emblem Fates. She is a lesbian, that is her actual canon character trait. She speaks about being attracted to girls and she finds men ugly, and yet you can’t romance her as the female Kamui (the player avatar), only as the male Kamui. How you may ask? Well, you’ll regret asking.

 

So the male Kamui drugs Soleil with a magic powder (without consent) that makes her perceive men as women, during this she begins having feelings for the player, so far suggesting it’s only because she now perceives them as a woman. When the powder wears off, she finds herself in love and attracted to the male Kamui sexually, asking him to touch her and so forth.

 

In her early dialogue she speaks of her lesbianism as a weakness preventing her from being a strong woman, and this is what causes the player to go through with drugging her and “turning her straight”. Once again, there is no option to romance Soleil with the female Kamui, despite her being a lesbian, you must go through with magical gay conversion therapy if you wish to romance her.

[Pattern Ghost]

So, Bill Cosby did some of the writing on Fire Emblem Fates?

[gewing]

A New Degree of Homophobia in Fire Emblem Fates

Fubar. I will make sure they get none of my money.

[gewing]

A New Degree of Homophobia in Fire Emblem Fates

Fubar. I will make sure they get none of my money.

[Sociotard]

Barred From ‘Boys Only’ Robotics Class, One Young Girl Took Matters Into Her Own Hands

[NuSoardGraphite]

That's something that I don't understand at all. When a woman chooses to create a costume for an event she is doing so to honor the source material and demonstrate her creativity. It is an outlet for her to express her enthusiasm and fondness for the source material that inspires her. As a man, I will not lie and say that some of those costumes are not "interesting" but that gives no more license to touch somebody without their consent as it gives a rapist consent because his victim dressed in a provocative manner. Plus, talk about a way to make the scene unpleasant for some really awesome costume designers. I couldn't imagine anything making somebody want to give up their hobby like somebody (or many somebodies) infringing on a basic need like personal space and....I can't find the right word. I think that creativity being snuffed out or at least damaged is sickening.

 

So why do people feel that they are allowed to just grab other people? I get uncomfortable when people stand too close to me and that's people that I care about. Strangers need to keep an arms length away. I would certainly respect that in others (circumstances depending - crowded buses sometimes require closer proximity than I am comfortable with). I just don't get it.

 

As for credibility checks, I am so woefully behind the geek culture times that I would fail them. I understand that concept a bit more though. Any sub-culture is going to establish a pecking order based on whatever criteria that culture feels is important. Men are competitive and (apparent from this thread) feel more than a little threatened about women "interloping" into geek structure. Sad, but something I can understand even if I don't condone it. I personally think that a group that has been historically weighted (heavily) in numbers towards males would welcome the opposite sex wanting to participate. To put a point onto it, how often are geek men going to meet members of the opposite sex that have similar interests? That there is a need for credibility checks shows me a severe sense of self-consciousness on the part of those that need them.

Jerks have been with us throughout the whole of human history. It is that simple. It puzzles me that people are themselves puzzled by this.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Fubar. I will make sure they get none of my money.

Were you actually planning to buy itin the first place?

 

I love the design work in FE but its a strategy game which I suck at, so I wouldnt buy it to begin with.

[NuSoardGraphite]

The E3 thing doesn't really impact me. While many of those companies could use new blood, there are also familiar faces across every product line. Todd Howard, for instance, has been with Bethesda since before Oblivion. He is obviously gifted at making a presentation, so why would Bethesda want to replace him with somebody else just to fill a quota. That being said, a lot of presenters at E3 could have been replaced and if those replacements were ethnic minorities, women or whatever group, that would be fine too. To me, whomever is up there on stage should be engaging and able to talk intelligently about their product. Too many of the presenters were obviously geeks that were in charge or had some other important part of the game development process. That does not make a qualified presenter in my opinion.

 

Demanding that there be a certain spread of gender, race, religious or other criteria smacks of quotas and affirmative action. I prefer just using the most qualified candidate that can be found.

yep.

 

I guarantee you that most of these companies would be perfectly happy to hire women and minority programmers with the experience they are looking for. What we have to ask is what percentage of minorites and women choose to go into the field of programming with a career in videogames in mind?

 

Perhaps they already hire as many as are available within the field. Lets not forget that African Amercicans only comprise 12.6% of the american population, so a company with 1/10 black employee breakdown is actually doing quite well in that regard.

 

Female designer numbers are more problematic, but I would love to see the numbers of females choosing programming as a primary field of employment to see how the breakdown actually applies.

[Cygnia]

Barred From ‘Boys Only’ Robotics Class, One Young Girl Took Matters Into Her Own Hands

Mind you, I was hoping she created her own robot to crush her enemies...

[Nolgroth]

Jerks have been with us throughout the whole of human history. It is that simple. It puzzles me that people are themselves puzzled by this.

 

Oh I understand the jerk thing. What I don't get is how you cannot think through to an obvious consequence. As much as I see the scum of humanity, I should get it. Perhaps that is a weakness of mine. New rule: Never underestimate the idiocy of anybody you don't personally know well.

[Sociotard]

Friday’s ticker-tape parade in honor of the U.S. women’s national soccer team, which won the World Cup on Sunday, is the first such parade in New York to honor exclusively women since 1960.

[Lucius]

Mind you, I was hoping she created her own robot to crush her enemies...

Perhaps you should write that story.

 

"They said I was too delicate and feminine to build a robot! They called me Girly! GIRLY! I'll show them! I'll show them all!"

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary and I flee the giant mechanical woman while she is distracted with reducing the boys' pathetic wind up toys to scrap metal

 

PPS (Post palindromedary stuff) - for those who haven't seen the story, the actual reason given for having a robotics class for boys only was that they thought girls in the community were doing okay educationally but the boys had more need for a little academic enrichment. Still strikes me as a policy that wasn't thought through properly. And a girl building a giant killer robot to beat up the boys' robots because she was laughed at and told girls can't build robots makes a great story.

[Cancer]

Even Google's targeted ads shows fewer higher-paying jobs to women

[Pattern Ghost]

The article is lacking some key information, namely: Were the profiles of the males and females identical other than their sex? If the profiles used in the study were biased, then it makes it harder to decide whether Google or the profiles were the origin of the discrepancy.

[Cancer]

No argument from me; it was something I got a link to through my AWIS membership.

[Enforcer84]

Confirmed: We still have a huge diversity problem.

 

...Is it wrong that I was impressed by nintendo's multiculturalism? I mean they had a caucasian!

[Enforcer84]

yep.

 

I guarantee you that most of these companies would be perfectly happy to hire women and minority programmers with the experience they are looking for. What we have to ask is what percentage of minorites and women choose to go into the field of programming with a career in videogames in mind?

 

Perhaps they already hire as many as are available within the field. Lets not forget that African Amercicans only comprise 12.6% of the american population, so a company with 1/10 black employee breakdown is actually doing quite well in that regard.

 

Female designer numbers are more problematic, but I would love to see the numbers of females choosing programming as a primary field of employment to see how the breakdown actually applies.

Actually 1/10 is below the average if 1/8 of the population is black. 

 

And a study last year showed that minorities are graduating with degrees at roughly twice the rate that they are being hired. (Caveat being Asians which have more jobs than graduates)

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2014/10/12/silicon-valley-diversity-tech-hiring-computer-science-graduates-african-american-hispanic/14684211/

[Nolgroth]

http://www.gamezone.com/originals/new-study-reveals-interesting-twist-in-gender-representation-in-video-games-jute

 

An interesting alternative view. The sample size is extremely small for my taste, leaving me to wonder what geographic location the sample came from. I would much rather have seen multiple groups sampled from across the country, with specific breakdown comparisons from sample groups in New York City, Los Angeles, Atlanta and a few other cities. It would be much more educational I think.