D&D 3.5 to Heroes

[TheNaga]

How do I convert D&D 3.5 to Heroes?  How would I convert the special abilities of 3.5 D&D monsters into Heroes?  I need help in find a site I once found that convert D&D to Heroes.  I think it might be 3.0 D&D it convert but it would help me out some.  I now that Surbrooks site has some feats from D&D converted into Heroes.

[Uthanar]

http://killershrike.com/ has tons of useful tools. 

[TheNaga]

http://killershrike.com/ has tons of useful tools. 

That was the site I was looking for. Thanks for giving them to url to it.

[Sean Waters]

Don't actually convert it, just swap covers.

[Killer Shrike]

3.x to HERO 5.x

 

http://killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/conversion3e.aspx

 

At the level of granularity used by this conversion, there's no significant difference between D&D 3.0 and 3.5

 

A few of the examples for 5e are not legal in 6e, and the magic VPP definitions are slightly off pointed in 6e due to the VPP rules being tweaked. You may want to adjust the "starting points" chart to accomodate 6e complications vs 5e disdvantages. Things like that.

 

In all cases the general advice stands, just tweak a bit for minor mechanical differences in 6e

[Killer Shrike]

However, if I ever get around to doing a 6e upgrade for the Fantasy HERO material, I would take Here There Be Monsters, the "urban fantasy" material I host, dropping the Urban part.

 

http://killershrike.com/HereThereBeMonsters/Paradigm_Starting.aspx

[BlueCloud2k2]

I have found through my own experience that low-level NPCs should not have armor. First encounter of the game the sorcer hit an orc with a magic missile (EB 6d6) and rolled low. Needless to say the player was pi$$ed that magic missile had no effect against an orc wearing leather armor.

[Sean Waters]

DnD combines both the chance to dodge and the chance to avoid damage through armour deflection/absorption.  If you hit then the opponent will take damage (unless they have a separate ability, like Damage Resistance (that is DnD DR not Hero DR)).  In essence, hardly anyone should have defences at all, including base pd and ed, which should be bought back to zero.  That avoids the problem with a magic missile hitting (well, it always hits) and doing no damage.

 

The thing about conversions, is you have to decide how far you are going to go.  At the extreme, the only difference between DnD and Hero DnD is that you are not using poly dice.

 

That is probably going a bit far.

 

The other thing is game balance.  If you convert DnD characters and monsters to Hero, they are not going to balance in terms of points with each other, even if they are theoretically the same level.  The first thing you have to ask yourself is: do I want to be playing Hero with a DnD skin, or do I want to be playing DnD with a Hero engine?

[Uthanar]

I have found through my own experience that low-level NPCs should not have armor. First encounter of the game the sorcer hit an orc with a magic missile (EB 6d6) and rolled low. Needless to say the player was pi$$ed that magic missile had no effect against an orc wearing leather armor.

I guess it depends on how you create Magic Missile.  I think that Killer Shrike does a discussion specifically about Magic Missile on his page, and how while it is a low level spell in DnD, it is a costly construct in Hero. 

 

My initial thought on it (and it might be from Killer Shrike's page) would be NND negated by Defenses that cost Endurance. 

 

Of course, a lot of Fantasy games create a third kind of standard defense: Magic Defense.  Magic Missile would play directly on that, and so most folks would have no resistance to it. 

 

Lots of ways to model it.  If unhappy with 6D6 being stopped by armor when it is called Magic Missile, change the way that the game works. 

[Armitage]

You could also use the optional rule in Fantasy Hero and the Hero System Equipment Guide that armor provides reduced protection against energy attacks, rather than equal PD/ED.

e.g. boiled leather armor provides 3 rPD but only 1 or 2 rED, depending on how you round it.

 

It would also fit with D&D having Armor bonuses and Damage Reduction separate from Energy Resistance.

[Christopher]

I have found through my own experience that low-level NPCs should not have armor. First encounter of the game the sorcer hit an orc with a magic missile (EB 6d6) and rolled low. Needless to say the player was pi$$ed that magic missile had no effect against an orc wearing leather armor.

The two perhaps most important difference between hero and D&D are:

- in D&D armor does not reduce damage. I think this is the biggest flaw of the system and causes more complexity then it solves problems by speeding up combat. I only heard of one other system that does this partially the same way. I personally know of no single P&P Rulesystem that does the same.

- there are no levels in HERO. So even a seasoned adventurer can be challenged by a bunch of orcs. If they are just noumerous enough or have proper situational advantages/position.

 

The reason that magic missile failed was because it abuses that flaw in D&D to get it's effect. Hero cannot do that. But hero also does not needs to create or abuse any such flaw.

 

One important thing when converting is to know where each power stands inside the HERO system. Just for this case (and new GM/Players) I have written this poewr guide:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/index.php?/topic/85482-power-guide/

[Hugh Neilson]

I have found through my own experience that low-level NPCs should not have armor. First encounter of the game the sorcer hit an orc with a magic missile (EB 6d6) and rolled low. Needless to say the player was pi$$ed that magic missile had no effect against an orc wearing leather armor.

 

If the object is to precisely recreate D&D using the Hero rules, my solution is to play D&D.  Nothing will ever capture the feel of D&D better than D&D. 

 

Solutions to the Magic Missile conundrum?  Attack vs Limited Defenses.  It goes right through the armor.  Solution to a player rolling 6 1's?  That happens once in 46,656 rolls.  I can live with it.  On average the 21 STUN rolled will cause damage to the Orc.  If you want to do more BOD, use a killing attack.

[Tasha]

I guess it depends on how you create Magic Missile.  I think that Killer Shrike does a discussion specifically about Magic Missile on his page, and how while it is a low level spell in DnD, it is a costly construct in Hero. 

 

My initial thought on it (and it might be from Killer Shrike's page) would be NND negated by Defenses that cost Endurance. 

 

Of course, a lot of Fantasy games create a third kind of standard defense: Magic Defense.  Magic Missile would play directly on that, and so most folks would have no resistance to it. 

 

Lots of ways to model it.  If unhappy with 6D6 being stopped by armor when it is called Magic Missile, change the way that the game works. 

I usually call Magic Missle a 1d6 RKA Autofire 3, then give either the Spell itself or the caster 4 levels to hit with it. BTW OD&D's Magic Missle required the mage to roll to hit. I guess you could go with Attack vs Limited Defenses if you had to get around armor, but the above spell will work well enough and on a decent Hit Location cause decent stun ex against the heaviest armored person.

 

I would use D&D as a loose model for a Fantasy Game. Pick up Fantasy Hero and the Hero System Grimoire and call it a night. There are enough Talents in FH to model most feats. The spells in both books should put a PC on a decent footing.

[Ninja-Bear]

Have you looked at one hex area effect-accurate(5th rev)? You target one specific person at 3 DCV.

[Lucius]

How do I convert D&D 3.5 to Heroes? 

 

Perhaps the question should be, "WHY do I convert D&D to Hero?"

 

I would say - look for what you like in D&D, or your players like, and try to convert THAT, not a whole system.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Does anyone know who the palindromedary is quoting? "People don't convert from one religion to another, but from nothing to something - that is, from what no longer has meaning or value to them to what does."

[Chris Goodwin]

That's got to be the most frequent request regarding Fantasy Hero.  The first post on the Fantasy Hero forum is dated February 11, 2003, and the first post that I could find asking about how to convert D&D to HERO is dated February 21, 2003.  That's only counting this incarnation of the forums, of course.  
 
Edited to add:  Incidentally, if I were going to convert a D&D campaign to Hero, I'd start by adding house rules to my D&D campaign.  There are a goodly number of very Hero-like house rules in the 3.x version of Unearthed Arcana: using 3d6 for resolution, armor as (D&D style) damage reduction, wounds and vitality, the use of a hex grid.  These would get the players used to thinking in those terms, and result in less culture shock.  (Edit edit: Spell Point variant: Vitalizing)

[Sean Waters]

Meh: always hits is a +1 advantage (we worked it out: against an opponent of similar skill, you hit  a bit over half the time, so hitting all the time means you do half the damage and have the same DOT).  There has to be a defences, which in this case would be specially designed magical barriers (e.g. the shield spell).

 

NND Does Body is +2 (also needs a defence.  Hmm.  Probably should not also be 'Specially designed magical barriers, but...))

 

That is a +3 advantage: you can do 1/2d6 killing that automatically hits, and automatically does a bit of damage (for a given value of 'automatically' for a 30 active point power.  Or you could add autofire (also +1 as NND) and chuck three 1 point killing attacks for a 25 active point power.

 

Lovely.

 

WHAT?  I know, but if this is a toolbox, let's have some tools.

[Kraven Kor]

You could also use the optional rule in Fantasy Hero and the Hero System Equipment Guide that armor provides reduced protection against energy attacks, rather than equal PD/ED.

e.g. boiled leather armor provides 3 rPD but only 1 or 2 rED, depending on how you round it.

 

It would also fit with D&D having Armor bonuses and Damage Reduction separate from Energy Resistance.

 

Some get way complicated and different armors have wildly different DEF vs. different attack types.  Like Leather is particularly good vs. cold attacks, good vs. slashing, fire, electrical, and acid attacks, not as good vs. piercing or bludgeoning attacks, and does not protect at all from sonic or "force" effects.  Rigid, Metal armor is particularly good vs. all physical attacks, good vs. acid and "force" effects, not so good vs. fire or sonic, and does nothing vs. electrical attacks.

 

How much detail you want to go into is up to you.

 

But yes, Armor functions very differently in HERO than in D20.

[Tasha]

I have found that sometimes you have to adapt your thought to the game world and not the Game Rules that are published for that world. Sometimes D20 is actually a pretty bad match for a game world, but game authors have twisted the world to work with the rules (ie Forgotten realms as it transitioned from 2e to 3.x D&D and even more radically when 4.0 D&D was introduced). It leads me to stop worrying about how a certain game system works as long as you are keeping with the spirit of things.

Which is why my version of Magic Missle is an Autofire Killing attack with some built in OCV, but doesn't worry about Autohitting. Because in Hero things should have absolute effects. Also Mages in Hero tend to be a bit better in combat than in D&D (ie a 3 OCV isn't that different from a 5 OCV). So worry about adapting things for the spirit of the game world and not the letter of another rules set. Your players will be happier for having things simplified and not having to bend a rules set to do things they weren't meant to do.

[Hugh Neilson]

Meh: always hits is a +1 advantage (we worked it out: against an opponent of similar skill, you hit  a bit over half the time, so hitting all the time means you do half the damage and have the same DOT).  There has to be a defences, which in this case would be specially designed magical barriers (e.g. the shield spell).

 

NND Does Body is +2 (also needs a defence.  Hmm.  Probably should not also be 'Specially designed magical barriers, but...))

 

That is a +3 advantage: you can do 1/2d6 killing that automatically hits, and automatically does a bit of damage (for a given value of 'automatically' for a 30 active point power.  Or you could add autofire (also +1 as NND) and chuck three 1 point killing attacks for a 25 active point power.

 

Lovely.

 

WHAT?  I know, but if this is a toolbox, let's have some tools.

 

Seems to me that +2 NND advantage using "magical protections" works fine.  In D&D, there are lots of spells that incidentally also stop magic missiles.  It seems like a single 1 BOD killing attack that always hits and penetrates most forms of defenses, bought up to 5 missile Autofire with experience, is a pretty reasonable simulation of the D&D magic missile - a small amount of damage that always gets through.  If anything, reliably inflicting 5 BOD is considerably more potent than the Magic Missile from its source.