Do you talk about Hero System on other forums?

[Lucius]

Has anyone else heard of Hero System fans being referred to as the Unicorns of the gaming world? 

 

I wonder if we need to get someone to mod a My Little Pony in Hero colors with a hex tattoo?

 

I'll be surprised if it hasn't been done, and if it hasn't, it should be

 

Lucius Alexander

 

My Little Palindromedary

[Spence]

I don't usually read a forum unless it has some kind of organization or way to divide up the forums in at least broad categories.   I don't play sword swingers that much and so don't really follow any of it.   If I go to a forum and they have a single topic for all RPG's I usually skip it.  RPGnet has a forum for Sword Swinging, a forum for LARPs and then they lump everything else in a third so I seldom go there.  theRPGSite is even worse, they just have a single category for everything.     It would be worth it if they used something, genre or system or anything that enabled one to locate threads of interest, rather than having to scroll through endless "ug, I have big sword" threads....

[Tasha]

Has anyone else heard of Hero System fans being referred to as the Unicorns of the gaming world? 

 

I wonder if we need to get someone to mod a My Little Pony in Hero colors with a hex tattoo?

Perhaps a HexPony Logo? LOL

[superferret]

When I have something relevant to say So far, my posts have been positive and not ad hominem (SP).
 

[phoenix240]

I realized I didn't actually answer the thread question. I have to admit I don't do it often. The other major board I frequent is Rpg.net and frankly. its just too much of a hassle. Way to many people there convinced that their opinions are facts and there's two sets of preferences in gaming: Theirs and the wrong ones. And the new hotness is Marvel Heroic Role play and other "rules lite" games which aren't my cuppa.

[PhilFleischmann]

I thought the three rules of Hero System were:

 

1. Do not talk about Hero System.

2. Do not talk about Hero System.

3. Do not talk about Hero System.

 

But I might be confusing it with something else.

[Spence]

And the new hotness is Marvel Heroic Role play and other "rules lite" games which aren't my cuppa.

 

New hotness is Marvel? IIRC they no longer have the Marvel License and have yet to actually release their generic version.  Has something changed? 

[Hyper-Man]

I thought the three rules of Hero System were:

 

1. Do not talk about Hero System.

2. Do not talk about Hero System.

3. Do not talk about Hero System.

 

But I might be confusing it with something else.

 

Where were those rules 10 years ago?

[Scott Baker]

Wait. Are you saying there are other gaming forums out there? 

[phoenix240]

New hotness is Marvel? IIRC they no longer have the Marvel License and have yet to actually release their generic version.  Has something changed? 

 

No you're right. I mean in the sense of board opinion/preference on rpg.net.

[Ndreare]

Yes posters on rpg.net definitely have favorites as we all do. Right now Cortex and Fate are front line.

[phoenix240]

Yes posters on rpg.net definitely have favorites as we all do. Right now Cortex and Fate are front line.

I haven't played Fate but Cortex, at least in the MHRP doesn't sound like my type of game. Too handwave driven and narrative with far too much dice manipulation involved. I like simple rolls and developed rules that they adjudicate.

[Spence]

No you're right. I mean in the sense of board opinion/preference on rpg.net.

 

Ah, I thought so.  But being a game'aholic my super secret gamer sense was tingling...

 

Yes posters on rpg.net definitely have favorites as we all do. Right now Cortex and Fate are front line.

 

 

I haven't played Fate but Cortex, at least in the MHRP doesn't sound like my type of game. Too handwave driven and narrative with far too much dice manipulation involved. I like simple rolls and developed rules that they adjudicate.

 

I have FATE Core and SAE (both are universal games like Hero) and a few of the available settings.  The game itself is a LOT of fun.  Really, it is a lot of fun.  But it is also true it is very very rules lite, SAE being lighter than Core (if that is even possible).  But the fact it is so rules lite means it doesn't work for some settings/games since its is a very narrative driven game and its die mechanic is very subject to handwavium by the GM and players.  Kinda like phoenix240's description of Cortex 

 

 

I have a copy of MHRP and several PDF's I got via a RPGnow sale a while ago.

 

The biggest thing I did not like about MHRP, which killed my interest in spending anytime to actually get a firm understanding of its rules is it's total lack of one of the primary things I look for in an RPG.   Balanced character creation.    MHRP literally does not have a character creation system.   It explains how everything works game wise but there is no method to determine how good or powerful they are during the build.  Instead the player just decides how bad they want to be and then plays that PC.  It is as if they published CC with no point costs.  What a 50d6 RKA? Cool just write it down, next?   In their defense, the game includes a very impressive array of Marvel characters already converted and ready to play and from the tone of the book the assumption is that you want to be Ironman or Batman.   But if you want to create an original concept there is nothing to prevent you from doubling down on Galactus if you wanted to.  Except the GM of course.  

[phoenix240]

Ah, I thought so.  But being a game'aholic my super secret gamer sense was tingling...

 

 

 

 

I have FATE Core and SAE (both are universal games like Hero) and a few of the available settings.  The game itself is a LOT of fun.  Really, it is a lot of fun.  But it is also true it is very very rules lite, SAE being lighter than Core (if that is even possible).  But the fact it is so rules lite means it doesn't work for some settings/games since its is a very narrative driven game and its die mechanic is very subject to handwavium by the GM and players.  Kinda like phoenix240's description of Cortex 

 

 

I have a copy of MHRP and several PDF's I got via a RPGnow sale a while ago.

 

The biggest thing I did not like about MHRP, which killed my interest in spending anytime to actually get a firm understanding of its rules is it's total lack of one of the primary things I look for in an RPG.   Balanced character creation.    MHRP literally does not have a character creation system.   It explains how everything works game wise but there is no method to determine how good or powerful they are during the build.  Instead the player just decides how bad they want to be and then plays that PC.  It is as if they published CC with no point costs.  What a 50d6 RKA? Cool just write it down, next?   In their defense, the game includes a very impressive array of Marvel characters already converted and ready to play and from the tone of the book the assumption is that you want to be Ironman or Batman.   But if you want to create an original concept there is nothing to prevent you from doubling down on Galactus if you wanted to.  Except the GM of course.  

In all fairness to the developers as I understand the lack of character generation was largely a result of their contract and Marvel's desires to focus the game on playing established characters and events from the comics thus structure of the supplements. They would have liked to include a more structured character generation system than "Make some stuff up" as far as I've heard.

 

One of the benefits of MHRP that gets praised pretty highly is that the power levels don't matter as much as in more "simulationist" games. It doesn't matter if you have Galactus and 'Mazing Man on the same team. They can both contribute equally without anyone feeling outclassed. I have to wonder how much of that is playstyle and player buy in than a quality of the game itself but its frequently mentioned (along with the assumption that such play is impossible or at least impractical in other more "simulationist" games like Champions).

[phoenix240]

I admit that one reason I don't talk much about Hero System on other boards is that I don't want to come across a zealot. I love the system but its not for everyone; people are going to like different things. Sometimes for reason that don't seem "logical" to other people. Taste is subjective. But people that constantly go on about their Personal Gaming Jesus like its the one and only system for fun and anyone else is either lying or somewhat delusional are annoying and I don't want to come across like that.

[Spence]

In all fairness to the developers as I understand the lack of character generation was largely a result of their contract and Marvel's desires to focus the game on playing established characters and events from the comics thus structure of the supplements. They would have liked to include a more structured character generation system than "Make some stuff up" as far as I've heard.

 

One of the benefits of MHRP that gets praised pretty highly is that the power levels don't matter as much as in more "simulationist" games. It doesn't matter if you have Galactus and 'Mazing Man on the same team. They can both contribute equally without anyone feeling outclassed. I have to wonder how much of that is playstyle and player buy in than a quality of the game itself but its frequently mentioned (along with the assumption that such play is impossible or at least impractical in other more "simulationist" games like Champions).

 

That makes sense, about Marvel wanting people to play the established heroes.

 

I don't see Hero as simulationist.  It can be played that way, but it doesn't have to.  My definition of simulationist games are those that mandate the use of defined board/grid.  Hero talks about meters and ranges, but does not require a map and its abilities are not tied to it.  D&D4e on the other had is a very simulationist game with many abilities tied directly to the location of the squares on the board.  It would be difficult to translate many of the feats and class abilities to not need a square grid.   

 

At least for me.  But then I don't play it so it could be very simple to do and I just don't have the knowledge to make it happen.

I admit that one reason I don't talk much about Hero System on other boards is that I don't want to come across a zealot. I love the system but its not for everyone; people are going to like different things. Sometimes for reason that don't seem "logical" to other people. Taste is subjective. But people that constantly go on about their Personal Gaming Jesus like its the one and only system for fun and anyone else is either lying or somewhat delusional are annoying and I don't want to come across like that.

 

And he scores! 

 

Not that I have ever been guilty of that

[mhd]

My definition of simulationist games are those that mandate the use of defined board/grid.

That's a very odd definition. Usually a lot of grid-based games are thrown into the "gamist" category and D&D 4E certainly fits that description.

 

Apart from the "realistic" angle, my personal rule of thumb is how combat works. "Simulationist" games tend to express this in terms that are somewhat recognizable from the real world, even in more cinematic/superheroic settings. So you often have "attacks" that get "parried" and if you have some move that does more damage, there's usually a somewhat believable explanation for this (head shots, wind ups).

"Gamist" systems might use some of those terms, but they're mostly window dressing. You'll find lots of maneuvers that are barely tied to reality and mostly address some need derived out of the rules themselves, not the other way around. Another common idiom are combos, where your power/maneuver can only be triggered if a certain condition is extant (generally/target-based).

Narrative systems vary widely, but mostly aren't concerned with the actual mechanics of combat, but more about motivations and how to best get a good story/paragraph out of all this hustling around and hitting things.

 

Of course, any sufficiently complex X system is indistinguishable from a Y system.

I'm sure you could even have some kind of gamist narrativism, although I'm quite sure that this wouldn't be my cup of tea at all.

 

Regarding HERO, I'd say the basic combat is simulationist, but as soon as powers get into play, it's more likely to get more gamist. Especially once limits are approached and you've got multi-powers full of attack abilities depending on whether your enemy has more DCV, PD or other defensive abilities.

 

But by writing that I've basically reached my limit of interest into those overly simplistic theoretical approaches. I find that most styles and systems are a mix of everything and the terms themselves rarely help to properly describe anything.

[Spence]

That's a very odd definition. Usually a lot of grid-based games are thrown into the "gamist" category and D&D 4E certainly fits that description.

 

Apart from the "realistic" angle, my personal rule of thumb is how combat works. "Simulationist" games tend to express this in terms that are somewhat recognizable from the real world, even in more cinematic/superheroic settings. So you often have "attacks" that get "parried" and if you have some move that does more damage, there's usually a somewhat believable explanation for this (head shots, wind ups).

"Gamist" systems might use some of those terms, but they're mostly window dressing. You'll find lots of maneuvers that are barely tied to reality and mostly address some need derived out of the rules themselves, not the other way around. Another common idiom are combos, where your power/maneuver can only be triggered if a certain condition is extant (generally/target-based).

Narrative systems vary widely, but mostly aren't concerned with the actual mechanics of combat, but more about motivations and how to best get a good story/paragraph out of all this hustling around and hitting things.

 

Of course, any sufficiently complex X system is indistinguishable from a Y system.

I'm sure you could even have some kind of gamist narrativism, although I'm quite sure that this wouldn't be my cup of tea at all.

 

Regarding HERO, I'd say the basic combat is simulationist, but as soon as powers get into play, it's more likely to get more gamist. Especially once limits are approached and you've got multi-powers full of attack abilities depending on whether your enemy has more DCV, PD or other defensive abilities.

 

But by writing that I've basically reached my limit of interest into those overly simplistic theoretical approaches. I find that most styles and systems are a mix of everything and the terms themselves rarely help to properly describe anything.

 

I think the root is we use very different definitions for game terms.   I am an old grognard and in my days as a wee lad gamed before RPG's were even thought of.   I can also count the number of video/computer games I have played one two hands and the number that held my interest enough to finish on one hand. 

 

Yes, any rule set can be adjusted and tweaked, but when defining a system I look at the rules as written. That said my definitions are:

 

Simulationist = An RPG that utilizes intricate details and extremely detailed rules to 'simulate' an environment in as much exacting detail as possible.  Attempting to be Realistic can be an aim, but an attempt to present a science fiction or fantasy setting in a Realistic Manner is also possible.   Game Units (for wargames or board games) and Characters (for RPG's) have extensive rules and options that must be followed and generally require the use of a grid (hex/square) to measure exact location or if not a grid, than exact measurement by ruler to pre-sized bases.  In these games a units location and exact distance from other units and features is critical.  A good rule of thumb for an RPG is if they have an Attack of Opportunity rule,  it is probably a simulation style game. 

Wargames = Avalon Hill's Submarine, SPI's Wellington's Victory, Clash of Arms Fear God & Dread Nought

Miniatures = Warmachine, Malifaux, and Bolt Action.

RPG's = Rolemaster, D&D4e, Pathfinder, Traveler etc.

 

Cinematic = Pretty much anything that lies between Simulationist and Narrative. They generally have a solid set of rules that could support a grid, but do not require it.   The system will have game mechanics in place but they will be flexible enough to allow a fair amount of narrative play.  But the core of the system still requires success and failure of actions to be determined using a die roll.   But overall they are not attempting to be realistic but instead designed to allow the players to immerse themselves in a movie/TV/novel-style world of adventure.  They provide a framework on which you can hang an adventure.  Most Cinematic RPG's tend to lean toward Simulationist or Narrative and can usually be adjusted to be lean more toward Simulationist or Narrative play, but will encounter difficulties.

RPG's that are Cinematic but lean Narrative = Savage Worlds system, Ubiquity system.

RPG's that are Cinematic but lean Simulationist = Anything HERO driven, Anything M&M3e/DC Adventures based, GURP's.

Cinematic systems tend to lean away from the middle toward Simulationist or Narrative.

 

Narrative =  All about the story.  Game mechanics are extremely streamlined and reduced to a bare minimum.  The game hinges on the ability to tell a good yarn or story.   The only time to actually make a roll is when you are reluctantly forced to make a decision that can't be role-played such as do I go insane from seeing the boogeyman or do I hit the boogeyman with my umbrella. 

RPG's = Anything FATE driven and GUMSHOE based systems are good examples. 

 

There are MANY more systems out there but I chose to use examples that I have been recently exposed to or are still living games (ie available for purchase in physical form from a FLGS).  And I fully expect many of you will not agree with some of my assessments.  But that is why they are MY definitions   and not yours.......

[Hyper-Man]

One of my recent projects has been doing what I can to update the references to HERO stuff on other forums.

 

http://rpggeek.com/rpgfamily/993/hero

• If you follow the links you will notice many 6e ebooks with missing covers.  I've found several images via web searches and submitted them to only be rejected because the images are too small.  The only solution I think is for someone who owns those books to scan (alt/print) paste into paint and submit a full size copy.
• There are also issues with what edition series certain books are categorized as (example:  Dark Champions Heroes of Vengeance clearly has the 4e Champions logo on the cover but is still categorized as a Chamions I-III product).
• It's also a little frustrating that both Champions Complete and Monster Hunter International Employee Handbook and RPG are not listed at the same level as all other Genre or System books (the Fuzion version of Champions IS shown at the same level as the various editions of Champions).

 

http://www.enworld.org/forum/hotgames.php

• This site still uses the outdated 5e HERO System Black and Green logo instead of the updated Blue and Gold 5e version.
• I've submitted a request to change it including an image but I am a lone voice in the crowd on that forum.

If you have a membership on either of those forums please help.

[Scott Baker]

One of my recent projects has been doing what I can to update the references to HERO stuff on other forums.

 

http://rpggeek.com/rpgfamily/993/hero

• If you follow the links you will notice many 6e ebooks with missing covers.  I've found several images via web searches and submitted them to only be rejected because the images are too small.  The only solution I think is for someone who owns those books to scan (alt/print) paste into paint and submit a full size copy.

Since the 6E books are available electronically, have you considered asking Jason if it would be possible to just get copies of the cover images? (By the way, how small is too small?)

[Hyper-Man]

Since the 6E books are available electronically, have you considered asking Jason if it would be possible to just get copies of the cover images? (By the way, how small is too small?)

 

The auto-response I get states:

Minimum scanned image size: 350 x 600 (reverse for horizontally formatted items).

 

I might do that eventually but Jason already has an account there himself.

http://rpggeek.com/user/herojason

[Kaze9999]

Challenge made!

 

From the roll20.net community forum posts:

 

"Hero G.

Permalink Quote Flag

I've been looking and asking around in the forums whether there are other roll20 users wanting to play in or run Champions/Hero System games, and there seems to be a number of is, so could Champions/Hero System please be added to the Looking For Group choices in search and drop down and player profile game system drop down?

 

11:37AM (21 hours ago)

Brian Mentor

Permalink Quote Flag

New systems are added to the list when there is a sufficient number of games being run with that system to warrant it. If you want another system add, you need to get more people playing that system! =)

 

Until then, use "Other" and specify the exact system in the game description.

 

 

11:49AM (21 hours ago)

Edited 11:50AM (21 hours ago)

Gauss Roll20 Mod Team Mentor

Permalink Quote Flag

I suggest you use the "Other Games" option and then put the name of the game in the title or description. The Devs will consider a game for the list when it shows a wide following (as judged by the number of threads and listings)."

[Scott Baker]

 

11:37AM (21 hours ago)

Brian Mentor

Permalink Quote Flag

New systems are added to the list when there is a sufficient number of games being run with that system to warrant it. If you want another system add, you need to get more people playing that system! =)

 

Until then, use "Other" and specify the exact system in the game description.

 

 

11:49AM (21 hours ago)

Edited 11:50AM (21 hours ago)

Gauss Roll20 Mod Team Mentor

Permalink Quote Flag

I suggest you use the "Other Games" option and then put the name of the game in the title or description. The Devs will consider a game for the list when it shows a wide following (as judged by the number of threads and listings)."

 

Yeah. Their tune has changed since the Kickstarter and go-live. Back then it was just a matter of time. Meh.