EvilGM Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 A couple of questions for you: 1) How often does magic appear in your Champions game? 2) Is there a structure to it, or is it just like any other sfx? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Re: Magic in a Champions game? Originally posted by EvilGM 1) How often does magic appear in your Champions game? In my current game it does not appear too much. I will be running the SOB playtest very soon so the players will get some experience with magic to some extent. For the most part my games are average comic book-like. There is some magic but it really does not come up any more than hi-tech or mutant does. 2) Is there a structure to it, or is it just like any other sfx? For me right now it is really just like any other SFX. You have light powers, you have cold powers, you have magic powers. It really does not expand beyond that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilGM Posted February 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Re: Re: Magic in a Champions game? Originally posted by Monolith In my current game it does not appear too much. I will be running the SOB playtest very soon so the players will get some experience with magic to some extent. For the most part my games are average comic book-like. There is some magic but it really does not come up any more than hi-tech or mutant does. I'd like to playtest the SoB stuff, but I run my games in a homebrew universe. Maybe I can fudge some names to get it to fit, but otherwise run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnTaber Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 1) How often does magic appear in your Champions game? [John] One of my PC is a Chinese mystic/martial artist so magic does appear in my game on a fairly regular basis. In fact right now the players are dealing with a nefarious DEMON plot. 2) Is there a structure to it, or is it just like any other sfx? [John] Humm...I guess it is just like any other sfx for the most part. Magic powers frequently have RSR but that is not always the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolith Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Magic in a Champions game? Originally posted by EvilGM I'd like to playtest the SoB stuff, but I run my games in a homebrew universe. Maybe I can fudge some names to get it to fit, but otherwise run it. I think you could do that fairly easily. The basic plot has a "univeral" feel to it and could easily be used by any mystic-based character. The new villains are interesting and have some interesting design approaches as well. I like the module quite a bit; especially the thought and extra effort Allen put into it to help GMs fill in all the possible plot devices players might use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acroyear Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 We just had a discussion about magic in the Champions Icons thread. Might give you an idea of the two sides on that coins as SFX goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVimes Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Re: Magic in a Champions game? Originally posted by EvilGM A couple of questions for you: 1) How often does magic appear in your Champions game? Pretty much every game. My daughter, Stargirl, plays a Gypsy Witch and my Wife, Mrs. Vimes, plays a Lakota-Soiux that has Spirit Multiforms (Bear, Raven, etc...), a third player calls on the powers of other members of his legacy (Warrior of Order), so that MIGHT be magic 2) Is there a structure to it, or is it just like any other sfx? Not really, I manage it more basic ob the Theme of the magic. The Gypsy can do a lot of Illusions, Evocations and Divinations. The Lakota can change into Spirit Forms of Animal Totems... If I ever get a Hermetic style (Dr. Strange) mage, I'll probably have rules for that too. I lump them together into a SFX called "Magic" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDU Neil Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Magic is very important in my campaign. It appears quite a bit... and for that reason, I've gone to great lengths to keep it from being "just another SFX." For a long time, I dissuaded magical characters, because most folks start out with the "Magic is just my excuse to have a list of every power in the book." Rarely did people explore the concept of magic as arcane knowledge, and that it works by different rules than the rest of the universe, and that the use of it should ALWAYS come at a cost. At best, some folks played it up as just another arcane "science" so it had structure to it like "Light powers" or "water powers" have a conceptual structure. Eventually though, the players began to accept my main "flavah" idea for magic, in that it needed to be something "off"... something "weird"... something "creepy and dangerous" for it to FEEL like magic, as opposed to just another superpower. Lately, I've come up with an idea that would introduce "magic" as a new type of power set... based on the "mental powers" concept. The idea is this... mental powers are scary in a supers campaign, because they affect the player in a different way, often to which thay have no or limited defenses. You get great reactions to charcters when facing a mentalist, because they are truly "other." I want magic to feel the same way. Sure you can use drains and ego attacks and EBs... and give them the SFX "Magic" That should always be an option... but what if you added in a set of powers called Magic Blast... Magic Control... Magic Defense, etc. Just like Ego Blast can only be defended by Mental Defense... the Magic Blast could only be blocked by Magic Defense. This simple construction, which changes nothing of the rules, and is just a matter of building some new powers... gives a fifth dimension to combat. Right now you have Energy, Physical, Mental and whatever the label is for drains/transfers/transforms. If Magic had it's own power set, it would be scary and unique as well, just like Mental powers are. Mighty Man can change the course of rivers, but needs Brain Boy to defeat the minions of PSI... 'cause the guy has no Mental Defense. That is an important "flavah" element in Champions. Well, Ultra Gal can beat off alien invasions with one hand behind her back... but against DEMON... well, that is best handled by Lady Dark, Mistress of Secrets... 'casue Ultra Gal can't defend against Magic. YMMV on this idea... I realize... but for those of you who might want to take magic away from the the "it's just another SFX" concept, which really rankles me, this might be a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edsel Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Magic is very common in our champions game. My own character, Enigma, is a super-mage. I have a couple of mystical enemies and contacts in the mystic world. Currently Morgan LeFay has been relased from a centuries-long imprisonment and has picked up some lackies, such as Black Paladin, and so there is at least one mystical supervillan group. Most magic in our campaign use VPP. My own character is one of the few who does not have the limitation Known Spells Only. All magic requires skill rolls to use and all of it generally costs END to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 Re: Magic in a Champions game? Originally posted by EvilGM A couple of questions for you: 1) How often does magic appear in your Champions game? 2) Is there a structure to it, or is it just like any other sfx? 1. Quite often, not as much as High Tech, but still quite often. It can be quite popular as a source of powers. 2. The answer to both is yes. There is a structure to it depending ON the SFX of the magic. Different forms of magic may have different rules. Voo Doo (Houdon? I can't spell the proper term) will have a different feel from a modern Wicca's mystic super's spells... and might have different restrictions, for example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Re: Magic in a Champions game? Originally posted by EvilGM 1) How often does magic appear in your Champions game? 2) Is there a structure to it, or is it just like any other sfx? It appears in virtually every game, as one of the PC's is a sorceress, and another is a demon. However, because the game is really a straightforward supers game, it's treated more-or-less like any other SFX. If the campaign was more magic-centric, that would change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superskrull Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 It wouldn't be the same without magic. I love using the stuff but I tend to at least subconsciously divide it into various categories. So far, almost all of the PC magic has either been empowerment or artifacts but there are several NPC mages running around in my world as well. I've got a player who is just starting out now with a mage. however. Rather than have him just design some monstrosity I can say no to, he asked me how I wanted to make it fit in. Fortunately, I've got just the villain to play off his style of magic, so I fed him some history and structures and he's happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumperPrime Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Magic-free Zone Contrary to what seems to be the majority of Champions games, the Global Guardians universe, a shared PBEM universe containing two dozen campaigns, one of which I expect to be joining soon, has absolutely ZERO magic. The Global Guardians universe has everything else, though. Metahumans, flying cars, fusion power, characters from alternate realities, time travellers, sentient robots, sentient apes, even aliens(one alien race, anyway, colonists from a dying planet whose ship suffered an in-flight disaster long before reaching Earth) Magic is strictly disallowed though. The supernatural does not exist in the Global Guardians universe. Period. No magic, no ghosts, no gods, nothing that can't be explained by technology or the metagene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Logue Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 I've stolen a concept or two from 7th Sea and Deadlands to help me create my Champions world. Essentially, "magic" is an underlying force that allows powers to exist. Its also a corruption that can lead to more and more villains. Sort of the darkside is easier, more seductive routine. My players haven't hit on this yet, but there is a sizable amount of heroes who have turn villainous over the years. However, I'm attempting to ease these ideas into the campaign slowly so as to draw it out. And then when the players start to put things together they can discover that, although the corruption gave them their powers, they can use those powers to try to correct the world and make it the way its probably supposed to be. Anyway, that's the extremely short form version of magic in my world. Its present and it greatly effects things. But it hasn't made a large impact in the players' perspectives yet. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryB Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Re: Magic in a Champions game? Originally posted by EvilGM A couple of questions for you: 1) How often does magic appear in your Champions game? It appears rarely. I can't speak for those who run scenarios in the current campaign, but I don't run many magic scenarios because it just doesn't fit with the campaign origin/theme/background. Incidentally, the campaign is a four-color one with some realism. 2) Is there a structure to it, or is it just like any other sfx? Just another sfx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law Dog Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Magic is one of those things that makes me take pause in a supers game. On one hand, I've got no problem with characters like Captain Marvel where his powers seem to be standard super type, but have a magic base. On the other hand, I get a bit tetchy when somebody want to play a caster who is basically just one big VPP. I really don't mind characters like Doctor Strange or Zatanna because they both seem to fit within the genre. But I've found that some folks aren't creative enough or genre familiar enough to design such a character and play within the conventions of the way magic usually works in a superhero universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirdbase Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Re: Magic in a Champions game? Originally posted by EvilGM A couple of questions for you: 1) How often does magic appear in your Champions game? Virtually every run of every campaign, as the shared universe that my gaming group has a long standing tradition of magic use. Originally posted by EvilGM 2) Is there a structure to it, or is it just like any other sfx? There is quite a bit of structure. The universe has a "Sorceror Supreme" type that is in San Francisco. He runs a school that has taught most of the PC mages in the world. A friend had created a magic system for his fantasy campaign and it pretty much became the standard for all of the campaigns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamashii2000 Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Re: Magic in a Champions game? Originally posted by EvilGM A couple of questions for you: 1) How often does magic appear in your Champions game? 2) Is there a structure to it, or is it just like any other sfx? 1 - One of my players runs a clone of a certian amazon so her lasso means magic shows up each game, but as a GM i rarely bring it in otherwise. I don't have anythign against it, its just my current storylines are all Techonlogical based. 2- As I don't have much of it past the lasso, I realy haven't developed it much, but should a storyline crop up with magic in it or a new character that uses spells be suggested.. I would definity create different versions and schools of magic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Scrivner Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 I don't allow magic or magical characters in my campaigns since the PCs are supposed to be the good guys and magic is by definition evil and demonic. You can't use the powers of darkness to produce good results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graviton Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Re: Magic in a Champions game? Originally posted by EvilGM A couple of questions for you: 1) How often does magic appear in your Champions game? 2) Is there a structure to it, or is it just like any other sfx? 1) I thought it was rare, until this thread got me thinking about it. I have a winged brick whose powers are magic-based, my wife runs a Cherokee mutant/shaman, my step-daughter runs the mutant/shaman's daughter, and another player has a new PC who's an extra-dimensional witch. That player also has a Dark Champions PC who wears a mask dripping with voodoo magic. All that magic and nobody's got a VPP. (The GM pats himself on the back. ) 2) It's for the most part just another SFX, but it's tightly controlled by concept. The winged brick was created by demonic magic, the mutant/shaman characters are mystical/natural magic, the Dark Champs PC is voodoo, and the ED witch is medeival dark arts. It hasn't really come up before, but I would rule those are distinct SFX, rather than treat them all as one broad "magical" SFX. We did create an entire magical system for our FH campaign under 4th, both secular and religious magic. We haven't upgraded that to 5th yet, and likely won't. It would take forever and we're pretty much supers exclusively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Angel Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 Evil Magic Originally posted by Kevin Scrivner I don't allow magic or magical characters in my campaigns since the PCs are supposed to be the good guys and magic is by definition evil and demonic. You can't use the powers of darkness to produce good results. Actually the original European pagan concept of magic was as a force for good. It was used for healing, blessing crops and was pretty much in tune with nature. Using magic (witchcraft) for evil was supposed to result in suffering three times as much as you inflicted: the three-fold law. It was a certain religion that convinced the masses that all magic was evil. Which was a good excuse for raping and murdering innocent people that just happened to have different beliefs. Beside, who else better to combat black magic than practitioners of white magic? Anyone trying to deny the good guys the powers of light is by definition evil and demonic. ...Activates smiting deflection shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law Dog Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 Re: Evil Magic Originally posted by Blue Angel It was a certain religion that convinced the masses that all magic was evil. Which was a good excuse for raping and murdering innocent people that just happened to have different beliefs. Your argument is fairly uninformed and biased and shows a poor understanding of the actual events that were taking place. You might want to try to take an actual history or religion class or at least read a book or two on the subject before prattling off pop cultural myths. The thing I try to stress in my students is not to fall into the groupthink trap that most humans seem to. Get educated and informed before embarassing yourself citing nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Angel Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 Re: Re: Evil Magic Originally posted by Law Dog Get educated and informed before embarassing yourself citing nonsense. My point exactly. The unnamed body was so good vilifying any differing views that even in this day some holds them as undisputable truth. Being European, I am in a position to have an opinion on the matter. There is a whole other world of history that you don't usually read about in NA. The things our ancestors did to each other... Any way, we don't need to be so serious here. The point was that Magic=Evil is like saying Knowledge=Evil, or Role-playing=Evil. I remember in the seventies when it was believed that Role-playing was a front for devil worship - especially that evil D&D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law Dog Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Evil Magic Originally posted by Blue Angel Being European, I am in a position to have an opinion on the matter. There is a whole other world of history that you don't usually read about in NA. The things our ancestors did to each other... Actually, I did some of my post-graduate studies at Oxford, which if I remember correctly is in Europe. An uniformed opinion is just his side of worthless. And again, you are just rambling off publically held misconception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Angel Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 Re: Re: Re: Re: Evil Magic Originally posted by Law Dog Actually, I did some of my post-graduate studies at Oxford, which if I remember correctly is in Europe. An uniformed opinion is just his side of worthless. And again, you are just rambling off publically held misconception. Please keep the flames down a little. Which part, specifically, are you saying is a misconception? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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