Hammer-space

[WistfulD]

AKA Mary Poppins or Felix the Cat's magic bag, AKA where'd those/that come from? See TV Tropes

 

Some characters (espcially cartoon/comic characters, but also webcomic, comic book, and sitcom characters) have a magic knack for pulling items out of their back pocket, purse, or just off camera. Often of dimensions that defy the laws of physics. How would one stat out this ability?

 

My initial thought is to say that it is a naked advantage, applyied to an absense of limitation instead of an advantage: Naked Advantage (makes any focus inobvious, regardless of original status). Another option would be a change environment penalty on concealment rolls, only to offset penalties, such that a person could effectively hide a blue whale on their person. Any additional thoughts?

[Netzilla]

I'd probably do this with Extra Dimensional Movement (only for storage) and whatever other Lims seem appropriate based on the specific description.

[massey]

Concealment 20-

[IndianaJoe3]

The Extradimensional Space power is in APG2. A more standard build is in Fantasy Hero Complete.

[L. Marcus]

If it's a lot of different things pulled out of Hammerspace, it's a Cosmic VPP.

 

If it's just the hammer, I'd just call it a HA, no Focus but perhaps a Physical Manifestation. Maybe with a custom Limitation like Only In Response To Idiotic Utterances.

[Altair]

It depends on what you want to do. If it's just a series of magically appearing weapons, a la video game characters? Multipower with IIF, nice and tidy. Otherwise, I like Netzilla's idea, EDM, storage only. Whether or not Concealment 20- works depends on your game, GM, etc. If Stealth 20- is essentially invisibility in your game, then sure, why not?

 

Maybe Concealment with Megascale?

[Grailknight]

As long as you don't pick up and store things, it's just a special effect. 

 

You could be summoning the items from another dimension, teleporting them from storage, creating them by transformation or visually mainfesting your psychic power.

 

All just SFX . 

[Hyper-Man]

A VPP with a custom Limitation on what Powers it CAN'T be used for is probably the easier way to go.  I doubt that a Hammer-space item is going to allow for some of the more unusual powers like Growth for example. It's typically going to be attacks of some sort right?

[DusterBoy]

I'm glad I found this thread. I've been wondering how to stat up this ability ever since I saw "Katanaspace" in BESM.

[WistfulD]

A VPP with a custom Limitation on what Powers it CAN'T be used for is probably the easier way to go.  I doubt that a Hammer-space item is going to allow for some of the more unusual powers like Growth for example. It's typically going to be attacks of some sort right?

Well, I'm not sure. I'm still thinking this out.

 

Netzilla, edm certainly could work, although I do prefer to have things with more defined boundaries than that. As Hyper said, a VPP certainly would work if it just allows the appearance of "objects" and thus pretty much anything could come out.

 

IndianaJoe3, can you tell me anything about the fantasy hero complete build? Might it be in the 2009 version of fantasy hero, which is the one I own?

 

Let's explore what Grailknight said. What if it was stuff my character picked up? Let's say it is a heroic campaign, and this was pretty much a stealth bag of holding. The character couldn't just pull out ANYTHING, just stuff that they already had access to. The power just let them carry it all past being frisked or disarmed/disrobed/etc. My current thought experiment is a character in our space opera campaign (Guardians of the Galaxy inspired). The character is a small, maybe 2' tall talking pteradactl-like alien, who can, when needed, pull out a 7' long anti-material sniper-rifle like gun. "Where was he keeping that gun?" his allies would say. "How'd he get that through security?" the cops would say. "Run!" his opponents would say! :-) That's why I was thinking a Naked Advantage which would turn his OAF gun into an IAF.

[massey]

If you can pull it out whenever you want it, then it's not really a Focus.  It might look like a Focus, but it's just the special effect of your RKA.  You always have it with you.  It can't be taken away.  You can leave it somewhere and then suddenly you pull it out again.  You don't really need a power to represent that (other than the attack).

[IndianaJoe3]

IndianaJoe3, can you tell me anything about the fantasy hero complete build? Might it be in the 2009 version of fantasy hero, which is the one I own?

 

It's in there and it's the same build.

[WistfulD]

It's in there and it's the same build.

What is it called, Hammerspace?

[WistfulD]

If you can pull it out whenever you want it, then it's not really a Focus.  It might look like a Focus, but it's just the special effect of your RKA.  You always have it with you.  It can't be taken away.  You can leave it somewhere and then suddenly you pull it out again.  You don't really need a power to represent that (other than the attack).

1) that works for innate abilities, but not for items. How do we give that to items?

 

2) your point, however, is taken. If this hammerspace itself can't be taken away, than it doesn't make things inobvious, it takes away the focus limitation. Well, we can build it for an unremovable hammerspace, and for a bag of holding.

[Grailknight]

1) that works for innate abilities, but not for items. How do we give that to items?

 

2) your point, however, is taken. If this hammerspace itself can't be taken away, than it doesn't make things inobvious, it takes away the focus limitation. Well, we can build it for an unremovable hammerspace, and for a bag of holding.

 

If it's personal, then it's pure special effect for the Multipower or VPP. If it's an item that you pull things out of, then that's a Focus for the Multipower or VPP. 

[massey]

 

1) that works for innate abilities, but not for items. How do we give that to items?

 

2) your point, however, is taken. If this hammerspace itself can't be taken away, than it doesn't make things inobvious, it takes away the focus limitation. Well, we can build it for an unremovable hammerspace, and for a bag of holding.

 

I don't think I understand what you mean

.

 

The way you build it is going to vary depending on how exactly you want it to function.  "Hammerspace" as I understand it, generally refers to a cartoon character's ability to pull items from behind their back, even if they wouldn't have room to store such items.  Bugs Bunny can pull out a big wooden hammer, a banana cream pie, some Groucho Marx glasses, a bucket of paint with a brush, a book of matches, a stick of dynamite, etc, even though he doesn't wear pants.  He gets this stuff from the same place where Transformers get their guns and Highlanders get their swords -- from off-camera.

 

How you write these up in Hero depends on how you want them to work in the game.  In my view, these are probably not Foci.  If you take away Bugs' dynamite, he can pull out another stick.  Bugs' character sheet would have something like this on it:

 

Multipower -- Cartoon items

--xD6 Explosion, Time Delay "Dynamite"

--+10 to Disguise rolls "Glasses and fake mustache"

--+6D6 Hand Attack "Big wooden mallet"

and so on.

 

He doesn't have any limitations on it because he can do it at will.  It may look like a hammer, but you can't really take it away from him.  He'd just pull out another one with a "vwoop!" sound, because that's funny.

 

Now, let's say you're dealing with an immortal swordsman who gets in fights to the beheading in an early 90s action show.  He can pull out his 4 foot long sword at a moment's notice, even if all he is wearing is a light jacket that barely goes down to his waist.  In this event, the sword is probably still an OAF.  When he is using the sword, it is still obvious what it is, and it can still be taken away from him.  He can be disarmed just like a regular person with a sword.  The "katanaspace" effect is not necessarily a paid-for power.  It is simply a trait of the immortal-swordsmen-walk-amongst-us genre.

 

Remember that a power should not cost more points just because of its special effect.  There is no rule that says even an OAF must be of a particular size or physical description.  If these guys can carry around a HKA on their fingers or in their pocket:

 

then this guy can carry around his HKA concealed beneath his jean jacket or his ponytail or wherever he keeps it.

 

It's the same effect, and the guy who picks "steel sword" instead of "energy ring sword" shouldn't be penalized cost-wise.  It is probably not worth any points at all unless you are using it in a hyper-realistic campaign, and then it probably isn't appropriate anyway.

 

Now, if you want a character to have a set number of things they can retrieve, it's probably a multipower.  If they're super-cartooney, and can pull out any item imaginable, it's probably a VPP.  I had a super-speedster once who had a VPP for items with the effect that he would run and grab whatever he needed, and be back instantly.  This is the same idea here.  The only time you're going to have to pay for something like XD Movement is if you can pick up items you find during the game, and store them for later (the portable hole / bag of holding effect).  That's not really "hammerspace" as it is traditionally used, at least as I understand it.

[WistfulD]

  The only time you're going to have to pay for something like XD Movement is if you can pick up items you find during the game, and store them for later (the portable hole / bag of holding effect).  That's not really "hammerspace" as it is traditionally used, at least as I understand it.

 

 

That is the instance I am talking about, and wanted to know what people would do. XD is an option.

[dmjalund]

  hammerspace

-------------------- = c

   hammertime

[Hyper-Man]

  hammerspace

-------------------- = c

   hammertime

 

Thus proving that MC's pants are made from the same substance used by ACME to create their famous holes.

 

[massey]

Thus proving that MC's pants are made from the same substance used by ACME to create their famous holes.

 

 

That must be where his career went -- lost inside one of those magical spaces.

[IndianaJoe3]

  hammerspace

-------------------- = c

   hammertime

 

I can't touch this.

[Christopher]

AKA Mary Poppins or Felix the Cat's magic bag, AKA where'd those/that come from? See TV Tropes

 

Some characters (espcially cartoon/comic characters, but also webcomic, comic book, and sitcom characters) have a magic knack for pulling items out of their back pocket, purse, or just off camera. Often of dimensions that defy the laws of physics. How would one stat out this ability?

 

My initial thought is to say that it is a naked advantage, applyied to an absense of limitation instead of an advantage: Naked Advantage (makes any focus inobvious, regardless of original status). Another option would be a change environment penalty on concealment rolls, only to offset penalties, such that a person could effectively hide a blue whale on their person. Any additional thoughts?

Superheroic game (equipment for points):

Not having a Focus limitation in the first place.

If you want to have a Hammer (HTH 4d6), you have to buy a Hammer (HTH 4d6, 0 End, No Focus Limitation!) with points. Done.

You can season that build with Physical Manifestation or a less Limiting Focus (it is already restrainable due to "point of Origin" rule). Or neither of those if the character has an unlimited supplies of hammers, like the blaster has unlimited supply of blasts.

"Grabbing a hammer from hammerspace and hitting someone with it" can just be the Special Effect of your Average HTH-Attack that costs endurance.

 

With powers always buy the end result - having that power avalible - then limit from there.

Never try to "cost save" your way into the final power or "super exactly simulate" the powers in game appereance (that is the special effect, not the game effect). Make the game effect first.

If the character can decide wich items (s)he has on the fly, it might call for a VPP. As that is the only rules construct to make up power on the fly.

A multipower might be usefull otherwise, as one can only use that many hand-held objects at the same time.

 

 

Heroic games:

This is "making a bag of holding".

One of the APG has Rules for Extradimensional storage.

Before that often Shrinking was used to simulate "much smaller and lighter in the bag then outside" or "place bigger on inside then outside". Everyone and everythng that enters is "shrunk" down to target size.

Alternatively you can use the Naked Buyoff (one of the APG has that too) to remove (part of) the Focus Limitation. But that is only really usefull if you have a very specific item you want to be able to call this way. And only because you generally do not buy gear with points in heroic games.

[Tech]

For cartoon effects, I use a large Multipower with all attacks/powers having the Variable Special Effect advantage.

[Altair]

I just found a thing!

 

APG II, p. 27: Extradimensional Space. 

 

BAM. 

 

(Edit.)

 

By which I mean, if you're looking for your Bag of Holding, there you go.

[WistfulD]

That's significantly more bounded than the one in the fantasy guide. Neat!

 

I also like Christopher's discovery that Naked Buyoff (of the focus limitation) is in fact a thing.

 

I think that's pretty much evidence that there's ways to do this within the rules. :-)