How to build, multiple powered armor suits for one character

[Alverant]

I'm pretty sure this has been covered before, but I'm not sure where. My character has a suit of powered armor but I'd like him to have a second one for specialized situations (underwater, space, jungle, brawler, etc). I'm not sure about the best way to do it. I could go with a VPP but not only would that get complicated I want to avoid the "I have just the suit for this situation" cliche and I want to keep the number of armors he has very limited. Multiform is too complicated and involves too much record keeping since you'd have to update each sheet every time you improved a skill or stat that was part of the person inside the armor.

 

One possibility I liked was having a multipower for special abilities with the limitation "only can switch slots in Hall of Armors" and have the special effect being putting on a new suit or switching out modular parts. The attack multipower would have a larger number of slots but only a certain amount of them can be selected with the special effect being there are only four weapon mounts on the armor so while he may have the choice of a dozen weapons, he can only pick four without going back to the base. But how much would a limitation like this be worth and am I overlooking an easier possibility?

[Hyper-Man]

You should take a look at the following:

 

http://killershrike.com/HERONet/Goodspeed.aspx

http://killershrike.com/MillennialMen/MillennialMen_WarMan.aspx

[Alverant]

So when War-Man changes into his armored form he loses his mental map of the city and can't deduce as well and can't play the trumpet? And when he changes back he doesn't know how to work as part of a team? What about if the GM puts a 90 active point limit on a power?

Like I said, too much work to keep everything straight. I hope to keep it simple and on one sheet.

 

It's a nice character though. With some reworking it could be an option.

 

(FYI the What's New link off the main page is broken.)

[Ndreare]

Have you considered buying the armors as vehicles?

Your character has a collection of 8 vehicles each worth 300 points. He pays 75 which is in the active point limits of most super games I know.

Then buy up his combat driving.

[Christopher R Taylor]

A basic chassis with a variable power pool you plug in stuff into works for the modular approach

[Hugh Neilson]

Plenty of options.  Multiform works, but is best suited to wholesale change of abilities (the "Stealth Suit" has no offensive powers, but a suite of invisibilities, silent movement, etc.), and in this case still needs the "base chassis" of the character piloting the armor in every form (his skills and stats don't change). 

 

Building the armor as different vehicles works, and keeps the pilot constant, but again seems best suited for armor that varies markedly in capabilities (this one has way more defense, that one's all about stealth, this is for deep space missions, and this one is for typical Supers missions).

 

Multipower or VPP is the way to go for modular armor, in my view.  A VPP is just a Multipower with unlimited slots, so the choice is really dictated by how many slots you want available.  Limitations on when and how the slots are changed will impact either construct.  Let's consider, assuming 60 AP weapons:

 

 - Multipower will need a 240 point pool, since you will only change slots under limited circumstances, and you want four slots active at a time.  Let's assume the armor is built as Only In Alternate ID (-1/4), and we add Slots Change only At Base  (-1/2).  The pool gets a -1 1/4 limitation so it costs 137 points.  Each slot gets a -1/4 limitation (since limitations on changing the slots, IIRC, don't limit the slots), so 5 points each.

 

 - VPP will need a 192 point pool (60/1.25 = 48 x 4 slots active).  Control cost would be 60 AP x 1/2 = 30/1.75 (same limitations) = 17, so 209 points.  If you will have 14 or fewer slots (ie no more than 14 weapon choices), the Multipower will be cheaper.  15 or more slots and the VPP is the more cost-effective build.

 

I'm sure there are other visions of the two builds, and I didn't look too close at the rules or think it through too hard, but that's how I'd evaluate the possible "multiple suits" construction. 

[Mister E]

According to the (+5) equipment doubling rule spare weapons & gadgets must be exactly the same.

 

In contrast spare Vehicles Bases Computers & Followers only need to be built on the same number of pts & can otherwise be totally different.

[Hyper-Man]

Plenty of options.  Multiform works, but is best suited to wholesale change of abilities (the "Stealth Suit" has no offensive powers, but a suite of invisibilities, silent movement, etc.), and in this case still needs the "base chassis" of the character piloting the armor in every form (his skills and stats don't change). 

 

Building the armor as different vehicles works, and keeps the pilot constant, but again seems best suited for armor that varies markedly in capabilities (this one has way more defense, that one's all about stealth, this is for deep space missions, and this one is for typical Supers missions).

 

Multipower or VPP is the way to go for modular armor, in my view.  A VPP is just a Multipower with unlimited slots, so the choice is really dictated by how many slots you want available.  Limitations on when and how the slots are changed will impact either construct.  Let's consider, assuming 60 AP weapons:

 

 - Multipower will need a 240 point pool, since you will only change slots under limited circumstances, and you want four slots active at a time.  Let's assume the armor is built as Only In Alternate ID (-1/4), and we add Slots Change only At Base  (-1/2).  The pool gets a -1 1/4 limitation so it costs 137 points.  Each slot gets a -1/4 limitation (since limitations on changing the slots, IIRC, don't limit the slots), so 5 points each.

 

 - VPP will need a 192 point pool (60/1.25 = 48 x 4 slots active).  Control cost would be 60 AP x 1/2 = 30/1.75 (same limitations) = 17, so 209 points.  If you will have 14 or fewer slots (ie no more than 14 weapon choices), the Multipower will be cheaper.  15 or more slots and the VPP is the more cost-effective build.

 

I'm sure there are other visions of the two builds, and I didn't look too close at the rules or think it through too hard, but that's how I'd evaluate the possible "multiple suits" construction. 

 

I don't think a 240 Pool is actually necessary.  60 would suffice if final 4 abilities are mutually exclusive as if they were in a 4 slot Multipower.  In that case the whole idea would be very similar to how I built Batman's Utility Belt.  It basically works like Vancian Magic without the "Magic" or an equipment pool (a heroic level game concept) in a supers game.

 

http://www.herocentral.net/get/files/premium/Bruce+Wayne+6e+400.HTML

[Christopher]

What you try to do here is copy solo mode Ironman. Propably for a team game. There is a big danger in this course - it is propably impossible to do. You need to understand the difference between a Hero in Group Adventures and Solo Adventures:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/topic/87378-translating-characters-from-fiction-and-the-secret-of-having-fun-in-roleplaying/ (point 2)

 

I once tried to make a similar Iron Man alike. Wich made me aware of this adaptive equipment issue.

 

What I setteled on evntually was a single fixed Heroic ID wth small VPP:

14 Grey Angel Cantrips: Variable Power Pool, 10 base + 5 control cost, (15 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available Slightly Limited (-1/4)

This was for a 250 point 6E Character.

It gives just enough for Life Support or a bit specific extra defense. And odd gear like stuff like binoculars.

[Hugh Neilson]

I don't think a 240 Pool is actually necessary.  60 would suffice if final 4 abilities are mutually exclusive as if they were in a 4 slot Multipower.  In that case the whole idea would be very similar to how I built Batman's Utility Belt.  It basically works like Vancian Magic without the "Magic" or an equipment pool (a heroic level game concept) in a supers game.

If he can only change slots back at the base, the VPP needs to be able to support all four slots at once. I can see a 60 point (or 48 point - each slot will have the OIAID limitation, so he only needs 48 real points per slot) VPP (which now needs Cosmic on its control pool) with a custom limitation that he is limited to four slots from which to select, and can change his four slot selection only when he is at the base.

 

In my view, the 60 point pool cost (however constructed) should be reduced only for limitations common to all the powers (like OIAID), and not for limitations on changing the slot in use, or the choice of slots to use. Regardless of how difficult it is to change the slots, the power is more versatile than one which has no choice, so the cost should exceed the 48 point cost of, say, 12d6 Blast, OIAID which can never be anything but a Blast.

 

However, a pool cost based on one power in use at a time is also much more appropriate than one which pays for all four, if only one can be used at a time. If the pool cost is sufficient to cover four slots, he should be allowed to use all four at once, in a Multiple Power Attack. Enough pool to support only one would indicate, to me, that there are four modular slots, but only enough power to run one slot at a time.

 

An interesting variant would be a pool bigger than a single slot, allowing for a measure of mix & match (use flex MP slots if using a multipower in this arrangement, but I prefer the VPP). With enough points to allow 2 slots, you could Multiple Power Attack two slots at maximum power, four at half power or any other combination desired. Maybe you have enough pool cost for 15 DCs, and each slot is 12 DC's - you could fire a 12d6 Blast combined with a 3d6 Flash, for example.

[Hyper-Man]

I don't think MPA attacks are allowed using 2 slots from the same Power Framework.

 

Back to the VPP topic.

 

Start with the theme that a VPP can be thought of as a Multipower with an infinite number of slots.  Combine this with the OP concept that the character can only choose 4 specific slots (filling 4 weapon mounts on the suit).  Now a 60 point Pool VPP with Cosmic and a Pool Limitatation denoting that the specific selection of which 4 weapons are carried can only be changed at the character's base will allow the 4 slots that are actually picked to functionally operate as a 4 slot Multipower in the field*.

 

(ex: this is functionally equivalent to a heroic level equipment pool (Perk) where a character could choose to carry a M-16 with an underslung grenade launcher built as a multipower OR they could choose different weapons up to the limits of the 'equipment pool'.  They aren't directly paying for the weapons as in a supers game - they are just buying a Perk instead with all the real world limitations that comes with (the base only has THESE weapons available; you aren't cleared for the use of THAT tech, etc..).

 

*Assuming that they are all fed by the same power source and cannot be used simultaneously. And even IF a bigger Pool was created the an exception would need to be made against the rule disallowing the combination of slots from a single Power Framework into a MPA.

[Chris Goodwin]

According to the (+5) equipment doubling rule spare weapons & gadgets must be exactly the same.

 

In contrast spare Vehicles Bases Computers & Followers only need to be built on the same number of pts & can otherwise be totally different.

 

To do it as a Focus, build the basic armor with whatever abilities all the suits have in common.  Double that a few times.  

 

Then buy a Multipower with the extras.  This has the "Only Change In Hall Of Armors" Limitation on it.  

 

Season to taste.  Maybe add a small VPP for utility belt type stuff.  

[Hugh Neilson]

I don't think MPA attacks are allowed using 2 slots from the same Power Framework.

This appallingly stupid restriction from 5e was wisely, prudently and equitably eliminated in 6e.

 

Multiple Attacks

 

A character can make a Multiple Attack(6E2 73) with two or more slots in a single Power Framework, provided he has enough reserve/Pool points to allocate to the two or more slots used in the attack simultaneously. A character can use slots from two or more different Power Frameworks to perform a Multiple Attack, assuming he obeys all the rules for such attacks. For example, a character could combine his Flame Blast (Blast 8d6, bought as a slot in a Multipower) with his Firebolt (RKA 2d6, bought as a slot in a VPP) into a Multiple Attack. A character can make Multiple Attacks with a slot in a Power Framework and a power that’s not in any Framework.

Combined attacks are not specifically mentioned, but are discussed under the subheading of Multiple Attack.

 

Power Frameworks

 

A character can make a Multiple Attack with two or more slots in a single Power Framework, provided he has enough reserve/Pool points to allocate to the two or more slots used in the attack

simultaneously.

 

A character can use slots from two or more different Power Frameworks to perform a Multiple Attack, assuming he obeys all the rules for such attacks. For example, a character could combine his Flame Blast (Blast 8d6, bought as a slot in a Multipower) with his Firebolt (RKA 2d6, bought as a slot in a VPP) into a Multiple Attack.

 

A character can make Multiple Attacks with a slot in a Power Framework and a power that’s not in any Framework.

I can only assume that the shame from this unfair and stupid restriction in 5e was so stinging that repeating the lack of such restriction in each 6e volume was considered appropriate.

 

[No, I'm not opinionated at all on this issue ]

 

Back to the VPP topic.

 

Start with the theme that a VPP can be thought of as a Multipower with an infinite number of slots.  Combine this with the OP concept that the character can only choose 4 specific slots (filling 4 weapon mounts on the suit).  Now a 60 point Pool VPP with Cosmic and a Pool Limitatation denoting that the specific selection of which 4 weapons are carried can only be changed at the character's base will allow the 4 slots that are actually picked to functionally operate as a 4 slot Multipower in the field*.

Yup - the only question is whether to buy a Multipower and limit the slots to 4 chosen at the base, or use a VPP. I'd use the VPP, as I want to add new weapons as R&D develops them. I'd also let it be purchased as a MP now and converted to a VPP later, if it's cheaper as a MP at creation but adds enough slots over time to make VPP the more cost-effective choice in the future.

 

A Cosmic VPP is just a Multipower with unlimited slots.

 

* Assuming that they are all fed by the same power source and cannot be used simultaneously. And even IF a bigger Pool was created the an exception would need to be made against the rule disallowing the combination of slots from a single Power Framework into a MPA.

If using 6e, this is the default rule. If not, then the 6e rule clearly should be imported to the 5e ruleset to override this foolish and unreasonable arbitrary limitation. Problem solved

[Jhamin]

A basic chassis with a variable power pool you plug in stuff into works for the modular approach

 

I tend to go this way.  All of Iron Man's armors (for example) are bullet proof, have repulsors, can fly, are super strong, and have internal radios & heads up sytems (combat levels).  These are all powers that the base character can buy outright & then you leave the Variable Power Pool for the invisiblity on the stealth armor, extra Str & PD for the Hulkbuster armor, etc.

 

I wrote up an Animated version of Iron Man this way once & submitted it to Surbrook's stuff once.  It seemed to work out.

 

http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationswesternanimation/avengers_emh/iron_man.html

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Depending on how far along your character is (thematically), you'll want either an Multiform or a VPP.  As Jhamin among others points out, if your character has bunches and bunches of different armors, and each one has a big bunch of typical things (flight, defenses, blast, radio), then you build your baseline armor, and have the VPP restricted to OIF Armor, Change Only in Base, and if there's something extensive that needs to be done, perhaps an Extra Time (Takes Time to Change).  I personally prefer the Multiform, however, because it allows for a whole bunch of stuff you aren't typically going to get access to with the VPP.  Take Nutshell, for example.

 

Please.  Take Nutshell.  *drum/cymbals*  *crickets*  *coughs*

 

Sorry.  Anyhow.

 

Nutshell, aka Chester Sherwood Schwartzwald, was originally a normal British red squirrel, native to Hope Forest, Derbyshire.  However, during the investigation of the outside dining area beside a certain unidentified top secret facility, the inquisitive Sciurus vulgaris went inside through an open window.  A scrap of sandwich, left out, was eaten; more was sought, which induced what can only be described as a chemo-genetic accident.

The squirrel, its senses aswirl with sudden superhuman intelligence (40), escaped to the outside and began to try to determine its future.  First, information was required; libraries and universities were broken into, the rodent ravenous for information.  He acquired it, he hacked computers, he built personas and a financial empire.  He assembled inventions generations beyond what mankind possessed ... and patented them.  He was the battle-armor super-genius ... villian.

 

Yes, villian.  Nutshell (who also possessed immortality, otherwise bam, dead in 5 years, y'know?) was entirely up-front about his desire to take over the world.  However, as his quote says, "You fool of a villian!!  Do you not know that only by acquiring the mindless adulation and sycophancy of the faceless masses can you possibly hope to seize total and lasting domination over the world?!?  Your meganuclear orbital weapon is meaningless!!"  He was going to take over the world the Mickey Mouse / Coca-Cola / WalMart way - by making everyone love him and buy from him, and every step taken (including joining the hero team) was part of that plan.  He was going to be the smart Evil Overlord, and everyone would, as per Niccolo Machiavelli's advice, both love and fear him.

 

Because most people don't understand how you're supposed to use Multiform (to wit, you ARE in fact allowed to go over 'campaign points', so long as you make the excess up with disads/complications, or if the GM lets you, pay double cost for the overage), what you essentially need to build is your 'base form' - which is you - and then throw all the rest of the points into the Multiform.  This will give you at least x4 forms, and possibly many more, because without going over and paying double for that, there ain't a whole bunch you can do in order to have a good battlesuit in the armored-up versions that won't force you to spend a lot of extra forms, i.e. battlesuits.

 

Here's the kicker you can do with this, though: in one of those forms, you can have a bare-bones suit ... and a mecha.  Yes, you can do this if the GM lets you via the VPP ... but with the Multiform, it's a default ability ...