Ego vs Mental defense

[Epic Legand]

   I thought I was reasonably familiar with the game, we are playing 6th edition. A player asked me why they would want mental defense, vs just buying more ego. As I looked into it, it seams they are worth about the same, though one is subtracting from an attack, while the other offers a higher number for the attacker to achieve. I am sure there must be some advantage to mental defense, or else why offer it ? Ego would offer better rolls for breaking out of mental paralysis or initiative in psyic combat, but I cant seam to find the perk side of Mental defense.

[Steve Long]

This is a conversation topic, so I've moved it to the Discussion board.

[Scott Baker]

Having a higher ego increases DMCV and helps against mental powers that have effect levels based on multiples of EGO, it has no effect on straight attacks such as Mental Blast. Or any attack with AVAD Mental Defense.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Right, Ego will make some effects more difficult, but it doesn't do anything against a mental blast.

 

For example: Mind Control and Mental Blast both target DMCV by default, so ego does nothing for that.

With Mind Control your Ego total is what the effect is compared to, so every point of ego makes a difference as to how badly you can be affected.  Even 1-2 points can make a power lose one level of effect

 

For example: if you have 10 Ego, and Brain Boogaloo rolls a 20 on his Mind Control effect, you're at Ego+10 effect.  But if you'd spent 1 point for an 11 ego, then he only gets equal to Ego.  Similarly, each point of MD also reduces effect - 1 point of MD would have the same effect.

 

However, with Mental Blast, your ego is irrelevant to the effect.  Mental defense acts like PD against a physical attack: the roll of 20 goes straight at your stun without any Mental Defense.  Each point of Mental Defense lowers the effect by 1. 

 

For example, you have 30 Ego but no MD, a roll of 20 on Brain Boogaloo's mental blast does 20 straight to your stun.  But with 5 points of mental defense, he only gets 15 points through.

 

So MD actually is better than just buying up Ego, because it works for both attacks.  Plus you can buy resistant on MD, to protect from killing mental attacks.

[Steve]

Following up on what others have already said, unless you have EGO-based skills or abilities, you're probably a bit better off buying Mental Defense and some 2-point levels in EGO Rolls (which could be used for Breakout rolls and such) rather than buying straight EGO.

 

With 10 points of Mental Defense and two levels in EGO rolls, it's only four points more expensive than buying EGO straight up, plus you can ignore 10 points of Mental Blasts.

[Tasha]

Having a higher ego increases DMCV.

 

That's only true in 5e and earlier. In 6e OMCV and DMCV are totally independant of Ego.

[Epic Legand]

Thanks for the feedback, I now feel I have a better grasp.

[bigdamnhero]

I've also seen other attack powers built as mental powers that aren't "Mental Powers" per se, such as an AVAD Blast or HKA defined as working against MD. (In fact, just used that one last game...) A high EGO won't do much to help you there. 

 

Also, MD is often bought as a gadget or other Focus that protects your mind from attacks, but doesn't add to EGO Rolls; you could build that as EGO with Limited Power, but MD is cleaner. 

[Scott Baker]

That's only true in 5e and earlier. In 6e OMCV and DMCV are totally independant of Ego.

Totally true. Never post when you're sick.

[dsatow]

Side note: Ego is also sometimes used against PRE attacks by GMs.  See 6E2, p136.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Yes, I always allow people to use ego or presence, whichever is highest, to defend against presence attacks.

[Hugh Neilson]

Off the topic, but to me, there's a case for EGO being the only defense against PRE attacks. Being impressive doesn't make you less likely to be impressed (consider the old Growth, which added PRE - without the history of knowing you're impressive, does your own mindset immediately change?).

 

Gamewise, this gives EGO more to do and reduces the benefits of PRE, which I like.  INT, DEX and PRE then each do two things (skil rolls for all three; PER for INT, initiative for DEX; PRE attacks for PRE) and gives EGO both EGO rolls and PRE defense.

[dmjalund]

"You all look like ants! How can I be afraid of itty bitty ants?"

[Lucius]

"You all look like ants! How can I be afraid of itty bitty ants?"

Ask Leningen

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says no, don't bug Leningen about it.