How would you model....

[eepjr24]

I am thinking about a spell that causes you to want to remove whatever you are wearing (clothes, armor, etc) due to itching and discomfort. How would you model that? I can think of 3 possible paths, but before I muddy the waters I would like to hear what others think is best.

 

Thoughts?

 

- E

[Durzan Malakim]

I suggest a combination of Images vs. sensations (itchy) plus Mind Control (remove items in contact with your skin). This combination does require GM approval however since Mind Control normally requires a "character must have some way to communicate the order to his target" (6E1 page 253). It seems reasonable to me that a failed PER roll against the Image attack counts as a command to "remove any items in contact with your skin," but since this is a matter of opinion, you may want to further limit the power to prevent abuse.

[ghost-angel]

Mind Control -> Remove Your Clothes Because They Are Itchy And Uncomfortable

Images, Touch Group -> Make Clothes feel Itchy And Uncomfortable (removal entirely up to target though)

Transform -> Clothes into Super Itchy & Uncomfortable Clothes

Change Environment -> you could probably finable something into this one....

 

Off the top of my head.

[Mister E]

Your clothes look itchy.

 

Why don't you take them off?

[Beast]

Curse: may the fleas of 1000 camels infest your armpits and everywhere else: 

Drain ED 1d6,

Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4),

Expanded Effect (x2 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (all focused PD and ED; +1/2),

Constant (+1/2),

Uncontrolled (+1/2),

Delayed Return Rate (points return at the rate of 5 per Minute; +1)

(37 Active Points); Restrainable (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), IIF (-1/4), Incantations (-1/4)

 

a full coating of oil for 1 min will kill the fleas

[Anaximander]

Perhaps some kind of mind control that replaces Con with Ego for resistance purposes.

[eepjr24]

Interesting. Like I expected, folks came up with some I had not thought of and some I had. I love this system for that. My originals were:

 

1. Mind Control

2. Mental Illusions

3. Transform person to person with Complication: Phys Lim: All things covering the body itch, cannot abide being covered.

4. 1 pip RKA, NND (Naked, Fully sealed environment, PD Resistant Protection that costs endurance), Does Body

 

I had not considered a Drain, I don't think that would work for clothes since it was an PD/ED drain essentially.

 

Transforming the clothes is an interesting idea. I'll have to give that one some thought.

 

I think Mister E was being sarcastic, but I suppose we could interpret that as a large amount of PRE plus a presence attack to remove your clothes.

 

Touch images are a mess generally, but this might be a corner case where they could work. Since you are essentially overlaying the image on top of a person, there are no worries about things passing through it, etc. Nice one.

 

Keep them up if you come up with something different. =)

 

- E

[Mister E]

A penalty that goes away when I take my clothes off.

[Beast]

this is just forcing the player out of what ever armor they are wearing
it just not using Mind control
In combat most will be violently opposed to stripping down naked

Interesting. Like I expected, folks came up with some I had not thought of and some I had. I love this system for that. My originals were:

 

1. Mind Control

2. Mental Illusions

3. Transform person to person with Complication: Phys Lim: All things covering the body itch, cannot abide being covered.

4. 1 pip RKA, NND (Naked, Fully sealed environment, PD Resistant Protection that costs endurance), Does Body

 

I had not considered a Drain, I don't think that would work for clothes since it was an PD/ED drain essentially.

 

Transforming the clothes is an interesting idea. I'll have to give that one some thought.

 

I think Mister E was being sarcastic, but I suppose we could interpret that as a large amount of PRE plus a presence attack to remove your clothes.

 

Touch images are a mess generally, but this might be a corner case where they could work. Since you are essentially overlaying the image on top of a person, there are no worries about things passing through it, etc. Nice one.

 

Keep them up if you come up with something different. =)

 

- E

[eepjr24]

this is just forcing the player out of what ever armor they are wearing

it just not using Mind control

In combat most will be violently opposed to stripping down naked

 

Not sure what your point is here. That it would be an EGO+30 effect? I agree with that statement. That it would be expensive? Probably, but I am not looking for something cheap, just different ideas of how to model it. Perhaps you could clarify your meaning?

 

- E

[Beast]

this was modeled for heroic level game which tend to run in the 30 to 40 pt active range
at 27 pts it is right near the top of the low end
a 60 active mind control would be in the master villain power range

vs a 10 ego it would have a 50% chance of starting to work(it takes time to undress
I see that as a waste of power for a simple itching effect

my build will have the victim shedding def at about 2def per phase of the caster on average
 

[massey]

Instant Change, usable against others.  And since Instant Change is now just a Cosmetic Transform, that will work fine too.  The special effect is the clothes itch so bad that the person takes them off.  That's the easiest and cheapest way to do it.

[dmjalund]

If a Mind Control has only a single effect, just successfully hitting with the power is giving the command.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Major (or is it Minor?) Transformation attack: gives the target a physical disad: severe allergy to clothing. (Very Common, since it affects all their clothes, and Total, since it's severe enough to make them immediately disrobe.)

 

Probably kinda expensive in terms of character points.

[HeroGM]

Or you could do change environment to give them the temporary disadvantage. Especiall if it affects everyone in a large area

[eepjr24]

this was modeled for heroic level game which tend to run in the 30 to 40 pt active range

at 27 pts it is right near the top of the low end

a 60 active mind control would be in the master villain power range

vs a 10 ego it would have a 50% chance of starting to work(it takes time to undress

I see that as a waste of power for a simple itching effect

 

my build will have the victim shedding def at about 2def per phase of the caster on average

 

So your build was built for Heroic level, that is fine. There are other power levels and ways to build things. And your build above would not be particularly effective in wide variety of situations for a few reasons:

 

1. As written, it only affects PD and ED, not Resistant Protection (Armor / Force Field in 4e/5e). It would affect PD and ED bought to be resistant.

2. It has no effect on clothes or any type of worn defense that is not PD or ED. So if their clothing or armor provided Damage Negation, Damage Reduction or Absorption they would be unaffected.

3. Since PD and ED are defensive powers, you'll only get about 1.5 points on average per phase (3 every other phase) assuming it is not bought as resistant. If it is bought resistant, it is 1 point per phase on average. If it has other advantages, that goes even lower.

 

So really, it's an interesting concept for reducing PD and ED, but doesn't really do much for the original stated SFX. Might be better to use something like a PRE Drain combined with a PRE attack to accomplish it? 

[Beast]

It was built vs resistant def(sorry I as rushed

It was also bought w/ EXPANDED EFFECT x2 w/ PD and ED as the targets
I had forgotten about defense powers so it will on average drain 1 pt per phase

 

 

So your build was built for Heroic level, that is fine. There are other power levels and ways to build things. And your build above would not be particularly effective in wide variety of situations for a few reasons:

 

1. As written, it only affects PD and ED, not Resistant Protection (Armor / Force Field in 4e/5e). It would affect PD and ED bought to be resistant.

2. It has no effect on clothes or any type of worn defense that is not PD or ED. So if their clothing or armor provided Damage Negation, Damage Reduction or Absorption they would be unaffected.

3. Since PD and ED are defensive powers, you'll only get about 1.5 points on average per phase (3 every other phase) assuming it is not bought as resistant. If it is bought resistant, it is 1 point per phase on average. If it has other advantages, that goes even lower.

 

So really, it's an interesting concept for reducing PD and ED, but doesn't really do much for the original stated SFX. Might be better to use something like a PRE Drain combined with a PRE attack to accomplish it? 

 

 

So your build was built for Heroic level, that is fine. There are other power levels and ways to build things. And your build above would not be particularly effective in wide variety of situations for a few reasons:

 

1. As written, it only affects PD and ED, not Resistant Protection (Armor / Force Field in 4e/5e). It would affect PD and ED bought to be resistant.

2. It has no effect on clothes or any type of worn defense that is not PD or ED. So if their clothing or armor provided Damage Negation, Damage Reduction or Absorption they would be unaffected.

3. Since PD and ED are defensive powers, you'll only get about 1.5 points on average per phase (3 every other phase) assuming it is not bought as resistant. If it is bought resistant, it is 1 point per phase on average. If it has other advantages, that goes even lower.

 

So really, it's an interesting concept for reducing PD and ED, but doesn't really do much for the original stated SFX. Might be better to use something like a PRE Drain combined with a PRE attack to accomplish it? 

[Lucius]

 

Itching Power: (Total: 16 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) Dispel 1d6, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (All Or Nothing; +0), Clothing/Armor (+1/2), Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Expanded Effect (x4 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+1 1/2), Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/2) (16 Active Points) (Real Cost: 16)

 

 

Other possibilities include

 

Entangle based on EGO that can be escaped by disrobing

 

Transform, targeting the armor or clothes

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary sees three possible aspects: Losing phases as one spends actions to disrobe; losing benefits of clothing such as defense powers, protection from environmental effects like cold etc; and actual penalties for being unclad such as social censure, risk of exposure (of secret id, that is) and triggering psychological complications.....

[eepjr24]

Itching Power: (Total: 16 Active Cost, 16 Real Cost) Dispel 1d6, Attack Versus Alternate Defense (All Or Nothing; +0), Clothing/Armor (+1/2), Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Expanded Effect (x4 Characteristics or Powers simultaneously) (+1 1/2), Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/2) (16 Active Points) (Real Cost: 16)

 

 

Other possibilities include

 

Entangle based on EGO that can be escaped by disrobing

 

Transform, targeting the armor or clothes

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary sees three possible aspects: Losing phases as one spends actions to disrobe; losing benefits of clothing such as defense powers, protection from environmental effects like cold etc; and actual penalties for being unclad such as social censure, risk of exposure (of secret id, that is) and triggering psychological complications.....

Entangle is an interesting idea. That could be a nice build.

 

I don't understand what you are dispelling, though? You said x4, so maybe... Resistant Defenses, Damage Negation, Damage Reduction, Absorption?

 

I think I would probably go with this for dispel:

 

1d6 Dispel, Expanded Effect: All Defense Powers (+3 1/2), Variable Effect: all clothing and other worn items (+1/2), Constant (+1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), Cumulative (96 points; +1 1/2) (22 Active points)

 

Dispel is all or nothing by default, I think? And since Dispel is not an adjustment power, no double of active points for purposes of the power. 

 

It does not really cover the phases lost disrobing but it covers all the rest, since clothing would be considered defense for many environmental effects. If someone is just wearing clothing, the defense value would be somewhere in the 5 point range (LS: Heat, LS: Cold, with limitations perhaps?). Armor and the like would probably take many more phases, as it should.

 

- E

[Christopher]

I am thinking about a spell that causes you to want to remove whatever you are wearing (clothes, armor, etc) due to itching and discomfort. How would you model that? I can think of 3 possible paths, but before I muddy the waters I would like to hear what others think is best.

 

Thoughts?

 

- E

Incentivises you to take of the clothing/armor? Or forces you to take them off?

What would happen if the "clothing" happened to be a firefighters suit with mask or Hazmat suit you have to wear?

Could you though through it? How hard would it be?

 

Incentivising:

That boils down to one question: What happens if they do not take of thier clothing? Wich penalities? For how long?

There is no rules construct for "suffering from itchi clothes", the same way you suffer from heat or cold.

 

Killing Senses:

The closest equivalent I could think of right now is loosing your sense of Touch.  6E2 9 has rules for loosing Sense(groups) due to flashes:

"A lack of Normal Touch (whether permanent or as the result of a Sense-Affecting Power) generally imposes penalties of -3 (or more) on DEXBased Skills, OCV in HTH Combat (and even some Ranged combat, if the character has to, for example, shoot weapons), and any other activities requiring dexterous action."

With itchy clothing your sense if effectively disabeled. What little skin is not covered by clothing would still not give you proper feedback against the "noise" of all the itching.

So how about:

"Flash (Touch), does not work when not wearing clothing(-?)"

"Transform, (Takes touch sense; healable by taking of clothing)"

 

Mental Illusion: Mental Images, "your clothing feels itchi" could only have as much effect as the rules for Mental Images allows.

And 6E1 251 has rules for "Harmfull Mental Illusions". In effect you can apply a Damage over Time/Continous attack on the target.

Stun damage from "your clothes are burning" is about as real as Stun damage from "your clothes are itching".

 

Imitate Mental Illusion: Any power that does Damage over time with the obvious shutoff of "taking of clothing" would work*.

Might need to be a NND (No Sense of Touch) to get past conventional defenses.

*Remember it only needs to be clear to the target, not make any sense.

 

Forcing:

Mind Control: You want a specific action (take of clothing/armor) when the target does not.

The other character would resist appropirate for the danger of the situation or the need to be clothed - likely when alone in thier room, not likely while fighting a fire, in a firefight or on a stage.

[Beast]

this was just a basic  build
adding damage negation ,LS is easily done by  extending the expanded effect advantage
you could also add the limitation that it only affects focus based defenses

also do you have any idea how long it takes to remove heavy armor(your better off just scaring them away
a Pre drain will have the same halving effect when ever you go against a def
and your going to have to go against Ego as it may be used instead of Pre  to resist Pre attacks
the target also still gets break out rolls and Pre attacks only become weaker if done more than once to the same target

It was built vs resistant def(sorry I as rushed

It was also bought w/ EXPANDED EFFECT x2 w/ PD and ED as the targets
I had forgotten about defense powers so it will on average drain 1 pt per phase

 

 

So your build was built for Heroic level, that is fine. There are other power levels and ways to build things. And your build above would not be particularly effective in wide variety of situations for a few reasons:

 

1. As written, it only affects PD and ED, not Resistant Protection (Armor / Force Field in 4e/5e). It would affect PD and ED bought to be resistant.

2. It has no effect on clothes or any type of worn defense that is not PD or ED. So if their clothing or armor provided Damage Negation, Damage Reduction or Absorption they would be unaffected.

3. Since PD and ED are defensive powers, you'll only get about 1.5 points on average per phase (3 every other phase) assuming it is not bought as resistant. If it is bought resistant, it is 1 point per phase on average. If it has other advantages, that goes even lower.

 

So really, it's an interesting concept for reducing PD and ED, but doesn't really do much for the original stated SFX. Might be better to use something like a PRE Drain combined with a PRE attack to accomplish it? 

[dmjalund]

how about change environment that has a high penalty unless the user takes off their clothes?