Build Review and Aid: Being harder to track

[smoelf]

I'm looking for some assistance in build a power/talent that would make it harder to track a character. I have a build that I think might accomplish what I want to do, but am also looking for some ideas of how to do it differently. And I do apologize for the very roundabout way of actually asking the question, but it helps me to type out my process But first some fluff text to describe the power/talent:

 

Being a guardian of the forest Bantar is capable of moving almost unseen through the forest. If one pays close attention when at his side you might see the bushes and brambles giving way and closing behind him. The earth, moss, and twigs soften under his steps so not a footprint nor a broken twig can be found. You can only track him down, if he wants you to, unless your skills as a hunter supercede his.

 

Here is my process to the current build that I would like an opinion on. Looking through the books it seems that the standard skill Tracking is the skill that one might use to find the character with this power/talent. According to 6E1 it is possible to make it harder to track someone if they use their Tracking skill to hide their trail. It is an option, but I'm not sure if it is appropriate here. The power/talent here is more an effortless effect, where the forest itself contributes to hiding their trail, while it seems the Tracking skill requires a conscious effort to hide one's trail. If this power/talent was purchased by an NPC, this would not really be a problem as one could make such a Tracking roll when appropriate in relation to the PC's efforts, but I'm not sure it work well if a PC had that power/talent. It would either result in many and frequent rolls, just to be sure, or rolls with a retroactive effect when applicable, which could spoil a surprise. Then I found the Change Environment power, and thought it did exactly what I needed, as it enables penalties to skills rolls. Thus I ended up with the following power/talent:

 

Friend of the Forest: Change Environment (-5 to all Tracking Rolls, 15 points), Reduced Endurance (0 END, +½), Persistent (+¼), Area of Effect (1 m Radius, +¼) (30 Active Points); No Range (-½), Only versus checks to track this character (-¼), Only in forests (-¼). Total cost: 15 points.

 

I have a few comments and some questions regarding the build. Reduced Endurance seemed like a no-brainer, but I was a bit unsure of Persistent. 6E1 p174 says that the effects of Change Environment would disappear when the character stops paying endurance for it. I assume this means that if the power/talent is constant, then the effect disappears when the characters goes to sleep. This does not really make sense when considering the special effect, but I am not sure if there is a difference between persistent and constant if it is bought with Reduced Endurance (0 END).

 

Another issue is how it would interact with other characters in how it affects the environment. I have given it No Range and Area of Effect (1 m) as it only affects the area right around the character. But through this it might affect a character very far away as they try to track where they were four days ago. Should I instead buy it with some kind of Megascale to ensure that whenever a character is trying to track them it is with the range of effect of the power/talent? In a similar vein 6E1 also states that a Change Environment can be permanent if it has little to no combat effect. Would such a build be considered in that category?

 

Regarding the last two limitations I am more unsure of how to price them, I guess it would depend a lot on whether the character in an NPC spending the majority of the campaign alone in a forest, or if they are a PC travelling in groups often outside of forests. How would you value those limitations in either case?

 

Any other ideas of how to build such a power/talent

[sageaqua]

I'd build it as desolid to leave no tracks with suitable limitations such as can still be hurt, can't pass through objects etc. 

 

This might work for you.

Desoldifcation, reduced end: (0 END +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2), invisible power effects, SFX Only (Fully invisible +1/2) (100 active points), Does not protect against damage (-1), Only to protect against (limited type of attack[ natural opstacals) (-1), Cannot Pass through Solid Objects (-1/2), Activation roll 15-(-1/4) 27 points.

 

That should work for leaving no trace behind him.

 

The other half - Invisibility to sight group, no fringe, reduced end (0 END +1/2), Uncontrolled (+1/2) (60 active points), Only when not attacking (-1/2), Activation roll 15 -(-1/4) cost 34 points.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

Really, it is just more like a Skill vs Skill contest. Tracking vs Tracking. 

[massey]

I've seen Invisible Power Effects, used on Running.  That seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to do it.  Also Flight, only on surface, only to not leave tracks.

 

I can't see any reason for it to be more expensive than just full on Flight.

[Nolgroth]

Really, it is just more like a Skill vs Skill contest. Tracking vs Tracking. 

 

This a great way to represent a superior tracker that knows how to cover his tracks. Perhaps, with the aid of the forest spirits (or whatever), that would grant a significant bonus to the roll.

 

Hide Tracks:  +6 with Tracking (12 Active Points); Only to Hide Tracks (-1) Real Cost: 6

 

 

I've seen Invisible Power Effects, used on Running.  That seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to do it.  Also Flight, only on surface, only to not leave tracks.

 

I can't see any reason for it to be more expensive than just full on Flight.

 

This seems like a flat-out supernatural solution. I like the Invisible Power Effects option more than the Flight kludge. 

 

Hide Tracks:  Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) for up to 24 Active Points of Running (24 Active Points); Only to Hide Tracks (-1) Real Cost: 12

 

 

I made those values arbitrarily. You could easily increase or decrease the Skill Levels to Tracking in the first example, or the amount of Running in the second example. I simply chose those for demonstration purposes. You could even combine them to make it feel like an actively used skill for the second by requiring a skill roll. With the first power boosting the Tracking roll, I would reduce the value of the Requires a Roll limitation to -1/4 or maybe even 0. Following the Hero metarule about the relative value of Limitations.

[InfiniteKarma]

Gliding, limited to moving along the ground, is a special-case limitation for representing this kind of ability.

 

Given that you could argue things like disturbed branches, or scents, could also be used to track, you could also go with "Invisibility to detect tracks/tracking", and make it simple. There's precedent there with the Simulate Death talent that's based on "Invisibility to detect life signs/paramedics".

[massey]

This a great way to represent a superior tracker that knows how to cover his tracks. Perhaps, with the aid of the forest spirits (or whatever), that would grant a significant bonus to the roll.

 

Hide Tracks: +6 with Tracking (12 Active Points); Only to Hide Tracks (-1) Real Cost: 6

 

 

 

This seems like a flat-out supernatural solution. I like the Invisible Power Effects option more than the Flight kludge.

 

Hide Tracks: Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1) for up to 24 Active Points of Running (24 Active Points); Only to Hide Tracks (-1) Real Cost: 12

 

 

I made those values arbitrarily. You could easily increase or decrease the Skill Levels to Tracking in the first example, or the amount of Running in the second example. I simply chose those for demonstration purposes. You could even combine them to make it feel like an actively used skill for the second by requiring a skill roll. With the first power boosting the Tracking roll, I would reduce the value of the Requires a Roll limitation to -1/4 or maybe even 0. Following the Hero metarule about the relative value of Limitations.

The value of the required skill roll limitation is the whole reason you had to buy the skill in the first place. Are you reducing the cost of the skill bonuses to zero as well? They don't do anything except offset the limitation that you aren't giving points for.

[Greywind]

Stealth

[Lucius]

Okay for some reason the system is totally botching up this post.

 

I may try again later.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

It looked like palindromedary barf.

[Nolgroth]

The value of the required skill roll limitation is the whole reason you had to buy the skill in the first place. Are you reducing the cost of the skill bonuses to zero as well? They don't do anything except offset the limitation that you aren't giving points for.

 

I don't see Requires a (Skill) Roll anywhere in my build. Perhaps you are reading in your own intent?

[smoelf]

Thanks for the responses so far.

 

Really, it is just more like a Skill vs Skill contest. Tracking vs Tracking. 

 

That was also my first thought, but won't it require the tracked character actively trying to conceal their trail? It seems to me that there is a distinction between actively hiding your tracks (Tracking Skill) and the environment making it harder for someone to be tracked (Change Environment). Or am I just reading too much into the descriptions in the books?

 

I've seen Invisible Power Effects, used on Running.  That seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to do it.  Also Flight, only on surface, only to not leave tracks.

 

I can't see any reason for it to be more expensive than just full on Flight.

 

I really like this one, thanks.

[Lucius]

 

 

I'll try again, without using the quote /quote function, and see if this works.

 

First, you can buy Tracking Skill to a high roll, put a Trigger Advantage on it so it happens automatically without effort or thought, and a Limitation to only hide tracks. This is bought separate from the normal Tracking Skill the character no doubt has. If you don't want to be rolling for it all the time, assume a roll of 10. Or if you want rolls but don't want to "spoil a surprise" make the roll yourself instead of having the player do so, just as you presumably make Perception rolls and the like all the time for the player characters.

 

About your Change Environment build: it doesn't actually need Area Effect. Check out Page 178 under Limitations: No Range. Also, the Limitation "Only versus checks to track this character" should be the Limitation "Self Only."

 

As for worrying about the character being "too far away" if someone tries to track them four days later, don't. Measure range when a power is used. It doesn't matter that four days later the character is in the next wilderness over; the character was right there at the time the power was activated.

 

But the traditional Hero ways to do this kind of ability are Limited Flight, which has been mentioned, and Running with Invisible Power Effects, also mentioned. All I will add is that if you buy the Invisible Power Effects right, you foil not only Tracking Skill but things like Tracking Scent or other Tracking Senses. Also, instead of a penalty to the Skill, you render it basically impossible.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

You can't tell by the tracks which way a palindromedary went

[Nolgroth]

Stealth

 

I'm thinking Concealment might be the better skill to choose. If it were me running and the character had no real "power" to hide his tracks, I would use either Concealment or Tracking, with the other being a Complimentary skill. Heck, I might allow the player to choose which one was the primary and which one the complimentary. Still I like the elegance in simplicity option a lot.

[Hugh Neilson]

Lucius covers the mechanics of CE in great detail.

 

Practically, what is this ability really worth? 15 points seems like a lot to reduce the likelihood of being tracked. Think about what else could be purchased for the same 15 points! Limited Desolid for 27 points? Is this worth more than +1 SPD and +3 DCV?

 

A Naked Advantage on Running, or limited Flight, seems priced more reasonably. Bonuses to Tracking, only to cover the character's own tracks (which seems like a -2 limitation to me *) is probably the best approach to penalize a tracker rather than make tracking outright impossible.

 

* It does not improve your own odds of tracking anyone, nor can you bring anyone with you, since they still leave footprints, break branches, etc.

[massey]

I don't see Requires a (Skill) Roll anywhere in my build. Perhaps you are reading in your own intent?

 

 

 

I made those values arbitrarily. You could easily increase or decrease the Skill Levels to Tracking in the first example, or the amount of Running in the second example. I simply chose those for demonstration purposes. You could even combine them to make it feel like an actively used skill for the second by requiring a skill roll. With the first power boosting the Tracking roll, I would reduce the value of the Requires a Roll limitation to -1/4 or maybe even 0. Following the Hero metarule about the relative value of Limitations.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure where I got the crazy idea that you'd add in "requires a skill roll" and give no limitation for it.  My bad.

[JohnnyAppleseed098]

That was also my first thought, but won't it require the tracked character actively trying to conceal their trail? It seems to me that there is a distinction between actively hiding your tracks (Tracking Skill) and the environment making it harder for someone to be tracked (Change Environment). Or am I just reading too much into the descriptions in the books?

Actually, no. The Tracking skill is used for people who know how to cover tracks. The "actively trying to cover" is more SFX.

[Christopher]

Really, it is just more like a Skill vs Skill contest. Tracking vs Tracking. 

True to some degree.

But there are abilities that transcend skills ability to be faulty.

Shape Shift with Mimicry completely negates skill Perception Checks to see through it. All you might stil need is acting.

Invisibility completely negates Skill checks to counter stealth (with the exception of the Fringe rule).

 

I've seen Invisible Power Effects, used on Running.  That seems to be the easiest and cheapest way to do it.  Also Flight, only on surface, only to not leave tracks.

 

I can't see any reason for it to be more expensive than just full on Flight.

Flight, only along Sufrace does trigger Pressure sensors, so it will likely also leave tracks.

 

Regardint the OP:

Basically you are asking how to do the "Trackless Step" of the D&D 3.0+ Druid in Hero.

 

 

First we need to define what tracking even is in most games:

1. A skill

2. A adder for certain senses (tracking via Scent).

Note that depending on the GM, tracking might operate totally differently from that.

 

In 5E there was a version of "Gliding, only to not leave tracks". But that was a bit hacky and Gliding is now folded into Flight.

 

Invisibility to Touch might work, either as pure power or IPE advantage on normal movement (like running).

By RAW you can not use IPE/Invisibility on touch to become Intangible (that is what Desolidification is for), but since it is only about not leaving tracks it might be allowed. Not leaving a Scent trail might be another thing altogether however.

 

Invisibility to Tracking:

There are precedence cases of Invisibility in odd cases. Like a invisibility that can overcome Danger Sense. Or Invisibility to "Detect Life Signs" (Feing death; as mentioned above), wich would usually be done with a Skill used like Perception (First Aid or Medicine).

 

Invisibility any Tracking Sense:

Normally you buy invisibility to certain sense groups. However there are rules for buying it against a certain sense.

Like "Invisibility, IR perception". That variant would cover every possible build of IR Perception - Sight, Hearing Smell, Touch, Radio and Mental Group (just in case somebody considers putting IR perception into one of those groups).

I am not quite sure off the top of my head what happens if the tracking sense is put into the Unusual Group (wich means not assigned to any existing sense group).

[Hugh Neilson]

Invisibility any Tracking Sense:

Normally you buy invisibility to certain sense groups. However there are rules for buying it against a certain sense.

Like "Invisibility, IR perception". That variant would cover every possible build of IR Perception - Sight, Hearing Smell, Touch, Radio and Mental Group (just in case somebody considers putting IR perception into one of those groups).

I am not quite sure off the top of my head what happens if the tracking sense is put into the Unusual Group (wich means not assigned to any existing sense group).

I'm not sure if there is an official rule or, if so, what it would be, but given the narrowness of the ability, I would be inclined to give the character the benefit of the doubt and allow invisibility to Unusual tracking senses as well.

[Christopher]

I'm not sure if there is an official rule or, if so, what it would be, but given the narrowness of the ability, I would be inclined to give the character the benefit of the doubt and allow invisibility to Unusual tracking senses as well.

Finally had some time to dig out the rules.

 

The Unusual/Idependant Sense group has the following rules surrounding it:

"A character may defne a Detect he buys as

belonging to none of the standard Sense Groups

— in effect, it becomes a Sense Group of its own,

making it difcult to affect with Sense-Affecting

Powers. On the other hand, “independent” Senses

usually cost a lot of Character Points, since

they gain no beneft from having a Simulated

Sense Group and thus ofen need a lot of

Sense Modifers." 6E1 207

 

"Te Unusual Sense Group includes the

following Senses: Active Sonar, Clairsentience,

Detect, High Range Radio Perception, Infrared

Perception, Radar, Radio Perception/Transmission, Spatial Awareness, Sensory Talents, Ultraviolet Perception, Ultrasonic Perception.

Characters cannot buy Sense-Affecting Powers

that affect the “Unusual Sense Group.” Te

Unusual “Group” isn’t really a group; it’s simply a

convenient term to describe all Senses that don’t

automatically belong to a specifc group." 6E2 209

 

"At the GM’s option, a character can buy a

Sense-Affecting Power to affect all versions of a

specifc Sense, regardless of what Sense Group it

belongs to. For example, a Heat Blast might Flash

all types of Infrared Perception, regardless of

whether the Infrared Perception is assigned to the

Sight Group, Touch Group, or some other group.

Te character pays for such a power as if the

power affected a Targeting Sense Group.

Sometimes a character wants to buy a SenseAffecting Power to affect one specifc Unusual

Sense. Unless some more specifc rule states otherwise, the cost for a Sense-Affecting Power bought

to affect a single Sense that belongs to the Unusual

Sense Group and is not defned as belonging to

some other Sense Group (such as most instances

of Danger Sense and Combat Sense) uses the cost

for a “Targeting Sense Group." 6E1 159

 

I really need to write that down for all the new ones, it does come up often.

[Christopher R Taylor]

I'd probably build it with invisibility, and a limitation.  The CE build works in that it would (with linger) allow a character to lay down a path that was difficult to use tracking on, and then over time it becomes impossible to track anyway, but it feels odd to me.

[bigdamnhero]

Invisibility vs Tracking seem like overkill to me, so I think I'd go with IPE for Running. You wouldn't necessarily even need to buy it for the Character's full Running, since for the most part we're talking overland movement not tactical running: 3 MPH works out to 18m per Turn, but I'd probably just handwave it at the base 12m of Running. And if the character is running full-out, then that might make them trackable. I don't think you need Fully Invisible for the IPE, since tracks are normally Inobvious at best. "Only to hide tracks"...maybe worth -1/2? I'm not sure how often the visibility of Running really comes up in play aside from Tracking. "Only in forests" feels like about -1/2 to me, depending on your campaign. So that would give us:

 

Leave No Trace: Invisible Power Effects (Invisible to Sight & Smell; +1/2) for up to 12 Active Points of Running, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (9 Active Points); Conditional Power Only In Forests (-1/2), Limited Power Only to hide tracks (-1/2) [4 RP]

 

4 Points feels about right to me cost-wise for what you're getting - a nice flavor piece that will come up now and then, but isn't exactly a game-changer.

 

Sidebar: a lot of woodsman/ranger types take Environmental Movement - no penalties in dense woods. So I would give the tracking character a penalty based on that.

 

Friend of the Forest: Change Environment (-5 to all Tracking Rolls, 15 points), Reduced Endurance (0 END, +½), Persistent (+¼), Area of Effect (1 m Radius, +¼) (30 Active Points); No Range (-½), Only versus checks to track this character (-¼), Only in forests (-¼). Total cost: 15 points.

If you did go with CE for this, I would agree you don't need AoE for it unless you also want it to apply to his teammates.

 

I don't think you need Persistent either - this is not really a Constant Power, it just has "lingering" effects. [6e1 p127] Persistent would only be needed if you wanted the Power to work if the character is somehow moving while unconscious, like if he's being dragged through the woods or does a lot of sleepwalking or something.

 

OTOH, if you define the CE as working against Tracking Rolls, I don't think I'd let you take a -1/4 for "only vs Tracking Rolls".

[Christopher R Taylor]

Invisible Power Effects on running works unless you jump ever, so probably good to have that, too.  Still pretty cheap.  That is probably a better construction than invisibility and considerably cheaper.

 

I don't think you need Persistent either - this is not really a Constant Power, it just has "lingering" effects. [6e1 p127] Persistent would only be needed if you wanted the Power to work if the character is somehow moving while unconscious, like if he's being dragged through the woods or does a lot of sleepwalking or something

 

Yeah just buy lingering for a week or so, that's long enough for natural passage of time to eliminate the tracks anyway.

[massey]

Is it more expensive than just buying Teleport? If it is, then it's wrong.

[Christopher]

Is it more expensive than just buying Teleport? If it is, then it's wrong.

Teleport still leaves tracks every place you stop at.

 

Are you seriously asking if buying IPE for Running is more expensive then Teleport?

Even Invisibility (Tracking) would be hard pressed to come up to any decent sized teleport.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Well that and its conceptually mistaken to teleport when you're clearly passing through the area.