modeling "itch"

[Rebar]

My wife thought it would be a great power to make your enemy itch anywhere on their body.

 

How would you model it?

 

What would it do? You'd need to make an ego roll or forfeit your phase to scratch? If you made the roll it might still reduce your INT, DEX, STR?

 

Flash versus Ego?

[Cantriped]

Change Environment to provoke an EGO Roll at -1 (or more).

 

The rules regarding using Change Environment in this way are annoyingly vague; they clearly state that when subjecting a target to a penalty to a skill or characteristic roll you can force to make one immediately, but completely omit what happens if the target fails said roll. So I typically use description of that type of characteristic roll, or the effects of a Characteristic being reduced to 0 as the basis for the penalties of failing a characteristic roll provoked by Change Environment.

 

In this case, You are provoking an EGO Roll to resist the temptation to scratch an itch. I would say scratching an itch is a Half Phase Action, because cinema and literature often has characters manage to complete another task (albeit poorly) while scratching themselves. Every phase the target is under the effect of the power and fails their EGO roll, they lost a Half Phase to scratching the itch. If you want to more accurately model the distracting quality of the itch, you can also include penalties to OCV, DCV, and Agility Based Skill rolls (which they suffer regardless of the result of their EGO Roll).

[Sean Waters]

Change Environment to provoke an EGO Roll at -1 (or more).

 

The rules regarding using Change Environment in this way are annoyingly vague; they clearly state that when subjecting a target to a penalty to a skill or characteristic roll you can force to make one immediately, but completely omit what happens if the target fails said roll. So I typically use description of that type of characteristic roll, or the effects of a Characteristic being reduced to 0 as the basis for the penalties of failing a characteristic roll provoked by Change Environment.

 

In this case, You are provoking an EGO Roll to resist the temptation to scratch an itch. I would say scratching an itch is a Half Phase Action, because cinema and literature often has characters manage to complete another task (albeit poorly) while scratching themselves. Every phase the target is under the effect of the power and fails their EGO roll, they lost a Half Phase to scratching the itch. If you want to more accurately model the distracting quality of the itch, you can also include penalties to OCV, DCV, and Agility Based Skill rolls (which they suffer regardless of the result of their EGO Roll).

 

Annoyingly vague.

 

Yes.

[Rebar]

Is CE the de facto way to penalize an opponent's skill roll?

 

Every time I want to model a power to do this, I riffle through the powers list and always stop on penalty skill levels, and it's never what I expect it to be.

[Steve]

Perhaps a Touch-basis Images?

[Rebar]

Perhaps a Touch-basis Images?

Well yeah but that's consequence-free.

 

What's the combat effect of not scratching an itch, or losing your willpower battle and stopping to scratch it?

[Nolgroth]

Change Environment to provoke an EGO Roll at -1 (or more).

 

The rules regarding using Change Environment in this way are annoyingly vague; they clearly state that when subjecting a target to a penalty to a skill or characteristic roll you can force to make one immediately, but completely omit what happens if the target fails said roll. So I typically use description of that type of characteristic roll, or the effects of a Characteristic being reduced to 0 as the basis for the penalties of failing a characteristic roll provoked by Change Environment.

 

In this case, You are provoking an EGO Roll to resist the temptation to scratch an itch. I would say scratching an itch is a Half Phase Action, because cinema and literature often has characters manage to complete another task (albeit poorly) while scratching themselves. Every phase the target is under the effect of the power and fails their EGO roll, they lost a Half Phase to scratching the itch. If you want to more accurately model the distracting quality of the itch, you can also include penalties to OCV, DCV, and Agility Based Skill rolls (which they suffer regardless of the result of their EGO Roll).

 

Exactly as I would have done it.

[Nolgroth]

Is CE the de facto way to penalize an opponent's skill roll?

 

Every time I want to model a power to do this, I riffle through the powers list and always stop on penalty skill levels, and it's never what I expect it to be.

 

Pretty much. I suppose you could do some sort of drain vs <skill> but that seems wonky and, being that I am not reading the rules all that often these days, I'm not sure that it is RAW legit. 

[megaplayboy]

Mind Control based on CON, Single Command: Itch yourself(different levels would indicate a greater degree of impairment).

[Sean Waters]

Since we have decoupled characteristics, many characteristics only have an effect as a characteristic roll.  Should we not be using an adjustment power to do this?  Why do we need CE for this?  Why would we?  CE is much better than an adjustment power because adjustment powers specifically say that the penalties they impose go off last: you can link a mind control and a MDCV drain.  Of course that is also a defensive characteristic so you halve the effect.

 

Also I don't think you can affect combat values with CE; at least I can not see that in the list of things you can do with it.  I mean, you can do it: you could theoretically do almost anything with it: fail a roll and there is no clear definition of the scope of the effect that can have.  We know that it can make you fall over as that is a specific example.

 

Not only that but CE lasts for a long while - use another more specific power and you need to spend more for the power to linger.

 

Can you do it this way?  Sure.  CE is a pretty broad church though, with little real definition.

[Rebar]

Since we have decoupled characteristics...

 

I'm guessin' "we" are using 6e rules?  

[Christopher R Taylor]

I did it with change environment, using a penalty to some rolls like dex and magic skill; stuff that takes focus and precision.  Its basically a distraction and a mild one, you could put a limitation on it that if someone takes a half phase to scratch it goes away.

[Sean Waters]

I'm guessin' "we" are using 6e rules?  

 

We are, although most of us remember the good old days well enough to be confusing about them if you specify a previous edition

[Cantriped]

Also I don't think you can affect combat values with CE; at least I can not see that in the list of things you can do with it.

Combat Value penalties as a Combat Effect are another grey area in Change Environment... Change Environment already codifies additional "Range" or "Targeting" modifiers (or any other codified OCV penalty which can be avoided by PSLs) as being worth 3 points. Your OCV and DCV are technically "Characteristics" just like your DEX is. Therefore I use the 4-point "-1 Characteristic roll and​ all Skill Rolls based on the same Characteristic" Combat Effect as the basis for the value of penalties to OCV and DCV as a Combat Effect.

If I were writing a supplement which included new Combat Effects for Change Environment: I would codify combat value penalties as CE Combat Effects; -1 OCV or DCV would be worth 4 (or maybe 5) points, and -1 OMCV or DMCV would be worth 3 points.

 

Is CE the de facto way to penalize an opponent's skill roll?

Yes (as far as I know). Change Environment is certainly the simplest way to impose a penalty to a Skill or Characteristic roll.

 

I'm guessin' "we" are using 6e rules?  

These are the "HERO System 6th Edition forums"; unless you note otherwise in your post, people are generally going to assume your question pertains to 6th edition. Personally I use Champions Complete & Fantasy Hero Complete almost exclusively as my rules sources, which is technically 6th edition... but only technically. As such I usually cite that they are my source so as to avoid confusion.

[massey]

12D6 Killing Attack

[Ockham's Spoon]

You could also model it with a Fully Transparent Entangle based on EGO (the Mental Paralysis option), the sfx being the target can do nothing but scratch themselves until they can use their EGO to overcome the effect.  If the power is more chemical than mental (itching powder) you could base it on CON instead of EGO, possibly with a limitation "Target can suspend the Entangle effects each Phase they make an EGO roll".

[Christopher R Taylor]

the sfx being the target can do nothing but scratch themselves until they can use their EGO to overcome the effect.

 

That's one nasty itch

[Mister E]

"All You Feel Is Itchy":

 

Flash Touch.

 

The penalties for lacking Touch are known.

[Rebar]

It occurred to me, modeling it as a presence attack (somehow) could work too.

 

Break your concentration.

[Lucius]

Your OCV and DCV are technically "Characteristics" just like your DEX is. Therefore I use the 4-point "-1 Characteristic roll and​ all Skill Rolls based on the same Characteristic" Combat Effect as the basis for the value of penalties to OCV and DCV as a Combat Effect.

Now that's interesting! That would explain why there is no specific OCV or DCV reducing effect, if we were supposed to use the -1 to Characteristic Roll feature for that purpose.

 

I don't think that's the intended reading, but maybe I should read the power description over with this in mind....

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Scratching a palindromedary

[Steve]

Steve Long actually addressed this in his answers to rules questions, but I don't remember the post title. You can lower OCV and DCV with Change Environment at a cost of five points per point reduced.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Doesn't Hero Designer 6 have that option?  I lost my hard drive and copy of the program so I can't check.  Hopefully I'll be able to afford to replace it soon.  Could have sworn I saved it off somewhere but I cannot find the copy.

[E Nymton]

Doesn't Hero Designer 6 have that option? I lost my hard drive and copy of the program so I can't check. Hopefully I'll be able to afford to replace it soon. Could have sworn I saved it off somewhere but I cannot find the copy.

Do you mean replace the hard drive or Hero Designer? Because you should be able to re-download the software from the client area of the website.

[Hadmar von Wieser]

Just for the fun of it: A curse variant with more long-time effect:
 

Severe Transform 4d6 (person without that Disadvantage to person with Psychological Complication indicating compulsive disorder or mental disturbance, or with it at a lesser level of effect; heals back by being subjected to spells or phenomena that cause the madness), Based On EGO Combat Value: vs. MENTAL DEFENSE, no range penalty (+1), Works Against EGO Not BODY (+¼), Cumulative (+½) (??? Active Points); Concentration, constant: Half DCV (-½), Extra Time: 1 Turn (-1), Incantations, Continuous (Constant) (-½), Limited Target (humans suffering mental impairment; -½), No Range (-½)

 

and the effect would be something like:

Has to scratch his itch, loosing 1/2 phase every phase (Psych. Complication: very common, strong, EGO Roll to resist)

(Hereby connecting to Cantripeds model with provoking an EGO Roll, which I like.)

[Hadmar von Wieser]

And then of course there IS the build with Images vs. Touch.

If you create visual illusions, you can make your victim "see" a car approaching - forcing him to jump out of the way or react in a similar way (or show impressive INT and EGO to resist that urge).
So you logically are able to do the same to another sense. You just BELIEVE there is that itch down there because your neurons are telling your brain so. But try to resist that impression ...