Spence

2h 55m

I believe there was a movie based on that concept. Some prisoner brought to an jungle island where a gamer controlled his actions so he could fight others like him.

That...could work!
I was thinking...Tigra? She killed in Cats...right?...right?

It had a third problem that was pretty large and one that was shared by several games/settings that never took off. 
 
It attempted to have it world be too unique.  Games that go out of their way to be too unique requires players to STUDY the setting in order have enough information to do anything. 
 
All I really remember of Empire of the Petal Throne was too much weirdness and too little explanation.  We went on to other games. 
 
Tolkeins Rohirrom (sp?) can be described loosely as plains dwelling horsemen with a culture that resembles Viking/Norse/Celtic and no ships. 
 
100% accurate? No. 
Enough so that a new player can create a character? Yes.
 
To play an RPG a player must have enough information to be able to create a character that fits in a setting. 
 
 
 

Jessica Jones Season 1 Episode 1: Netflix is deleting its Marvel shows at the end of the month so I figured I'd see what this show was all about.  That was a mistake because episode 1 was amazing and there is no way I can finish three seasons in two weeks.

Hero has tied itself to "create anything you want, for any game you want - it's all here in this (ese) single (two) enormous volume(s)" for a long time.  It seems like a great concept. But it has not sold. It is clearly not what the market wants. D&D and Pathfinder, with their "here's a few options, and here's some template characters with even those few choices at L1 made for you, now start playing - we'll publish buckets of new options you can buy later" have proven that.
 
Now, back in the day, we bought 64 - 80 page books and filled in the blanks on our own. I will suggest those days are also done.  But we don't need massive tomes of rules and options right out of the gate.  We need something playable right out of the gate.
 
Many years ago, Hero and D&D both concluded that adventures don't sell.  D&D created Dungeon Magazines to sell fan-produced content and fill that niche.  But Paizo proved that the market for adventures came back.  But not the little modules of yesteryear that you plug into your existing game - full-blown campaigns, even almost-independent RPGs, in a series.  Hero never got over "adventures don't sell".
 
 
Hero could set itself apart and still sell.   Publish that "on rails game".  Players happy with that experience can stay on the rails. Do you want to customize your game?  Then buy the system books and you can customize your game.  D&D has tried "race creation"/"character class creation" books, but without the core system behind their design (HINT: there isn't one, just a few basic guidelines and a lot of gut feel, which is how we get broken options) they didn't work out so well.   Hero has that core system, but it does not need to be front and centre to publish a game.
 
Give players a dozen or so template Supers, with a few choices to be made, and some more they can add with experience.   Give them some examples with all choices made. 
 
Let the game begin!  With an intro scenario and setting that, ideally lead onto an Adventure Path series.  Hark back to the old 2e Hero model that every scenario also provides some new rules or options that can be adopted on a broader scale, perhaps.
 
Then publish splatbooks and more scenarios based.  And publish the full system for those desiring to customize or even design their own game.
 
 
100%.  Now, let's take this one step further.  At 1e to 3ed, Hero published independent, standalone games.  The rules were similar, but not identical.  Hero sold.  Of course, so did a lot of other RPGs.
 
The hobby contracted.   Hero published 4e, all the rules in one place, consistent across genres.  But it was published with the Champions game tucked away in the back (BBB) and other games reliant on the same rules were published.  It was a hybrid model between "system" and "games".  It sold, but the hobby then really contracted, and they had issues with publishers, etc.
 
Then we got 5e/6e.  Hero doubled down on the "here is the system, build your own games" model. That was, in hindsight, a losing gamble. Standalone games continue to sell.  Hero System, placing system first, genre second and game never, did not sell. SOLUTION: Double down again on a 6e that has even more "system" and still no "game".
 
This doesn't cry out for a 7e. It cries out for games built with 6e rules.  A Supers game with a set list of power constructs and an Adventure Path out of the gate.  Want more?  Buy this game and show us we should publish more.  Or dive deep and get the system rules to custom-build to your heart's content. A Fantasy game with a defined setting and magic system and an Adventure Path out of the gate. Want more?  We'll publish it if people buy it. Want a different spell/race/ability/magic system/setting/?  Either we publish a game that appeals, or you can build your own with the full system rules.
 
The "system first" experiment was bold and had merit.  It failed. It is long past time to accept that and move on.
 
 
This highlights that different genres need different approaches, hence one book games.  The Supers setting can be New York City, London or Paris, or your home town.  You don't need a new setting.  We can introduce trappings of the setting in scenarios and splatbooks, if the demand is out there.  We need the ability to build Supers as diverse as the source material provides.
 
Fantasy needs a Fantasy setting driving its magic systems. It doesn't need to be "every fantasy setting", it needs to pick one.  Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings are great franchises.  They are not compatible.  Pick a setting, pick magic systems, set the dials and let's play THAT game!
 
 
This comes down to "what is a complete game?"  The D&D setting is not all that developed in any core rules I ever read.  It branches out into various published settings, whether directly published or gradually discovered (and designed) over the course of published adventures.  Looking WAY back to the D&D Blue Book, it was a "complete game" IMO.  What did it have?  A few races (human, dwarf, elf, halfling) and classes (fighter, magic user, cleric and thief, choices constrained based on race), enough choices and growth potential to make it to third level, a small (not even mapped) town and a tower outside town where the players could undertake their first exploration and adventure.
 
Imagine fleshing that out to a modern-size game book instead of a 64 - 80 page stapled booklet.  That would allow for a few more choices, add in skills and feats, a mapped-out, populated town and a more fleshed out adventure.
 
Want more?
 
Splatbooks of new races, classes, feats, higher-level options, etc. are easily envisioned.   Adventure paths and setting books will take you beyond that one small town and its haunted tower.
 
Later, when you have a taste of the game and its base mechanics.
 
Comparable for Supers, we need more focus on longer-term villains, and perhaps other supporting cast, but we don't need the same depth of setting explanation (I don't know what a Glaive-Guisarme looks like, but you don't need to explain what an iPad is).  And we can start with a small starting adventure in Campaign City, then grow the city, residents and villains behind the scenes over an adventure path.
 
I will suggest the game is "complete in one book" if, using just that book, we can have characters created and be running an adventure with only the resources provided.  If we have to create the magic system, or the setting basics needed to start, or the first adventure or two, it is not "complete".

Wow, this thread exploded.
 
So a lot of repeated dead horse beating
 
But a few items, well beaten but none the less true.
 
In no particular order...
 
1) In Play Character Sheets vice Full Build Character Sheets.  This is still a must.  You simply do not need all the annotation on the character sheet in play.  It is simply a wall of numbers and arcane text for the new player.
 
2) Actual Campaigns and Adventures.  To work a campaign has to contain all of the key information required to play.  That means anything not contained in the core rulebook MUST be in the Campaign/Adventure.  If a campaign requires the purchase of yet another book in order to run it, people will pass.  A "One-Sheet" is a different animal.  The "Plot-Point" format is perfect. A supers campaign is not like a fantasy campaign (like D&D/PF) or a horror campaign (CoC).  You do not have to meet Dr Destroyer, Mechanon or Galactis in every campaign.  A character can complete multiple campaigns before they are powerful enough, and that is OK.
 
3) Build criteria, as in point values and caps.  For a campaign or adventure this is determined by the campaign or adventure.  It is not something left to the purchaser to figure out.  Make a decision and mark it as such. Players can always ignore it.  But a player, especially a new GM needs to know so they can plan.
 
4) Play Cards.  I have started calling play sheets this to avoid confusion with Play Character Sheets.  A Play Card has all the information needed to play the specific character on one sheet.   I  am currently tinkering on one to be laminated so a player can make quick notes. 
 
5) From the beginning Hero has always been easy to play.  Character creation, while not difficult once you realize how it works, us completely different and almost counter intuitive to new people.  But I completely disagree that combat drags out more than other systems.  Most of the issues come from familiarity and paying attention.  If a player is actually paying attention they can immediately tell you their action.  It is why I ban devices at the table when I run.  If you want an example of a mind bogglingly complex game that is Pathfinder with its 2 million class variants and 52 volumes of stuff.  I have yet to see a PF game were every action wasn't accompanied by the player and GM flipping pages and pages and pages to verify what they were doing.  Yes, yes...I  know I your game it never happens
 
6) Campaign Setting. Hero doesn't have one.  They have all of the ingredients, arguably too many ingredients.  But nothing organized into a format that a GM can pick up, prep and play. 

Okay, so let's look at some rough history.
 
Paizo began, publishing Adventures for D&D 3.5.  But decided to go off on their own, and use the D20 license to publish their own system, we now know as Pathfinder. The product was a very Publishing adventures was supposed to be a losing proposition, but they made enough money to put out a magazine.  These magazines would put out Adventures that were linked to the Next issue of the magazine, and after a year, they would publish the adventures in a hardbacked book for $50, and start the next year's adventures in the magazine.   This has resulted in a very lush game world (Golarion) for Pathfinder, and a lot of material.  I do not know how well Second Edition is working out for them, but I would assume that since the stats in both editions are similar, if not the same, then the current published material should work. 
 
Now it has become evident, that the quality of computers has increased in capability since the early 2000s, pushing more work and productivity onto the rank and file worker, and sucking up vast amounts of time at home with ever more capable games.  So Marc W. Miller's  lament, that people don't have time for imagination seems apt.  IF we remember, both Traveller, and Hero were conceived as generic systems for running what ever you wanted to, but in Traveller's case, the player base became dependent upon published material, either modules, or magazine articles. Like Paizo, some of those magazine articles became collected into books.  Today you can see the fruits of that productivity in https://travellermap.com/, where the planets from  all the published Traveller material can be accessed on a single large, scalable, continuous map of all the Traveller sectors and subsectors.
 
Hero had a magazine for a while, but it went defunct with one of the sales, and did not continue.  Very little of that material was collected into separate books and adventures, but I also9 think Hero was a bit too early in the cycle to change the assumption that it was a system for home brew.  However there are a lot of questions on the Hero Discord about the original Champions Superhero group, and Millenium City, that there is interest in the published materials.  What was once true, that Adventures do not sell, is no longer the case, and that I would suggest something like the Paizo model be taken up, but in PDF form.  Adventures published in chucks, and then gathered at the end of a scheduled time period into a whole.  People don't have3 the time to Homebrew any more, and those that do, could help out by writing it down and publishing a PDF through Hero.  Somethi9ng like Champions Begins is a great start, but there should be a money making product for the company that helps the Novices along, after CB.  These are just my suggestions, but I would like to hear other ideas.
 

I was laughing my ass off.  They were obviously an expendable distraction and none of them were expected to survive. 
 
It was like a British comedy along the line of Black Adder or Mr. Bean.  Over the top stupidity somehow surviving.
 
The big starfish sealed the deal.  Stupid enough to be hilarious. 
 
No.   I liked SS2.  It wasn't high cinema, but it was entertaining.

When I was a part of a regular Champions game many moons ago, all the PC's were part of a super-team with the completely original name of The Champions 
 
Each player had a "stable" of PC's (only able to play one in a session) and we rotated GM's.  We had a pretty sweet headquarters with each PC having their own quarters/lab/what have you and the PC's kicking in points.   More than one session took place in the base and by the time I left the game the base map had become impressive. 
 
Wish it had happened in the personal computer age and it had been possible to get a copy  

1st off the Hero Boards have always been fairly civil and friendly, but it really became my favorite place for discussions when I discovered the ignore function.  There are not very many toxic individuals here and they are eliminated easily.  For me anyone that feels the need to inject snide political comments in their
non-NGD posts goes straight to toxic land.  I don't really spend any time on the NGD so I rally don't care about that.  But taking a dump in the RPG forums is out.
 
2nd.  While I do agree in general with most of your comments here.  There is one major concept I completely disagree with.
Hero System 6th Edition, Champions Complete, Fantasy Hero Complete, Hero System 5th Edition Revised and so on are NOT role playing games. 
 
Spence: Yes Igor, please raise the drawbridge and bar the gates....
Igor: But we should flee!
Spence: It is too late Igor, I can already see the torches and pitchforks...
 
Then what are they, you may ask?
 
It is simple, they are a system that a gamer can use to build a role playing game. 
 
A role playing game can be picked up and played.  Hero, in pretty much all its incarnations cannot.  Instead it can be used by a gamer to put together something that then can be used to be played. 
 
I am currently in the middle of prepping a Fantasy Hero game. 
 
I am STILL in the middle of prepping a Fantasy Hero game.
 
But I was able to discover, buy, read, design scenarios and run them for actual playable RPG's in just a few days. 
 
Even most Hero supplements are not actually RPG's.  The Champions universe has a lots of stuff, but lacks a coherent playable setting of campaign. 
I fully understand that the primary overwhelming ideology was the belief that potential customers would suffer massive catastrophic death if anyone even hinted at a pre-designed campaign or anything that could even distantly be construed as establishing a concise character creation guide.  
 
So while Hero is my favorite RPG related system hands down.  
It is not an actual RPG that can actually be played "out of the box". 
 
No I do not have a solution, but I do not have to have one to see the problem. Just like I do not have to be a Chef to identify the cause of food poisoning.
 
 
 
 
 

1st off the Hero Boards have always been fairly civil and friendly, but it really became my favorite place for discussions when I discovered the ignore function.  There are not very many toxic individuals here and they are eliminated easily.  For me anyone that feels the need to inject snide political comments in their
non-NGD posts goes straight to toxic land.  I don't really spend any time on the NGD so I rally don't care about that.  But taking a dump in the RPG forums is out.
 
2nd.  While I do agree in general with most of your comments here.  There is one major concept I completely disagree with.
Hero System 6th Edition, Champions Complete, Fantasy Hero Complete, Hero System 5th Edition Revised and so on are NOT role playing games. 
 
Spence: Yes Igor, please raise the drawbridge and bar the gates....
Igor: But we should flee!
Spence: It is too late Igor, I can already see the torches and pitchforks...
 
Then what are they, you may ask?
 
It is simple, they are a system that a gamer can use to build a role playing game. 
 
A role playing game can be picked up and played.  Hero, in pretty much all its incarnations cannot.  Instead it can be used by a gamer to put together something that then can be used to be played. 
 
I am currently in the middle of prepping a Fantasy Hero game. 
 
I am STILL in the middle of prepping a Fantasy Hero game.
 
But I was able to discover, buy, read, design scenarios and run them for actual playable RPG's in just a few days. 
 
Even most Hero supplements are not actually RPG's.  The Champions universe has a lots of stuff, but lacks a coherent playable setting of campaign. 
I fully understand that the primary overwhelming ideology was the belief that potential customers would suffer massive catastrophic death if anyone even hinted at a pre-designed campaign or anything that could even distantly be construed as establishing a concise character creation guide.  
 
So while Hero is my favorite RPG related system hands down.  
It is not an actual RPG that can actually be played "out of the box". 
 
No I do not have a solution, but I do not have to have one to see the problem. Just like I do not have to be a Chef to identify the cause of food poisoning.
 
 
 
 
 

1st off the Hero Boards have always been fairly civil and friendly, but it really became my favorite place for discussions when I discovered the ignore function.  There are not very many toxic individuals here and they are eliminated easily.  For me anyone that feels the need to inject snide political comments in their
non-NGD posts goes straight to toxic land.  I don't really spend any time on the NGD so I rally don't care about that.  But taking a dump in the RPG forums is out.
 
2nd.  While I do agree in general with most of your comments here.  There is one major concept I completely disagree with.
Hero System 6th Edition, Champions Complete, Fantasy Hero Complete, Hero System 5th Edition Revised and so on are NOT role playing games. 
 
Spence: Yes Igor, please raise the drawbridge and bar the gates....
Igor: But we should flee!
Spence: It is too late Igor, I can already see the torches and pitchforks...
 
Then what are they, you may ask?
 
It is simple, they are a system that a gamer can use to build a role playing game. 
 
A role playing game can be picked up and played.  Hero, in pretty much all its incarnations cannot.  Instead it can be used by a gamer to put together something that then can be used to be played. 
 
I am currently in the middle of prepping a Fantasy Hero game. 
 
I am STILL in the middle of prepping a Fantasy Hero game.
 
But I was able to discover, buy, read, design scenarios and run them for actual playable RPG's in just a few days. 
 
Even most Hero supplements are not actually RPG's.  The Champions universe has a lots of stuff, but lacks a coherent playable setting of campaign. 
I fully understand that the primary overwhelming ideology was the belief that potential customers would suffer massive catastrophic death if anyone even hinted at a pre-designed campaign or anything that could even distantly be construed as establishing a concise character creation guide.  
 
So while Hero is my favorite RPG related system hands down.  
It is not an actual RPG that can actually be played "out of the box". 
 
No I do not have a solution, but I do not have to have one to see the problem. Just like I do not have to be a Chef to identify the cause of food poisoning.
 
 
 
 
 

1st off the Hero Boards have always been fairly civil and friendly, but it really became my favorite place for discussions when I discovered the ignore function.  There are not very many toxic individuals here and they are eliminated easily.  For me anyone that feels the need to inject snide political comments in their
non-NGD posts goes straight to toxic land.  I don't really spend any time on the NGD so I rally don't care about that.  But taking a dump in the RPG forums is out.
 
2nd.  While I do agree in general with most of your comments here.  There is one major concept I completely disagree with.
Hero System 6th Edition, Champions Complete, Fantasy Hero Complete, Hero System 5th Edition Revised and so on are NOT role playing games. 
 
Spence: Yes Igor, please raise the drawbridge and bar the gates....
Igor: But we should flee!
Spence: It is too late Igor, I can already see the torches and pitchforks...
 
Then what are they, you may ask?
 
It is simple, they are a system that a gamer can use to build a role playing game. 
 
A role playing game can be picked up and played.  Hero, in pretty much all its incarnations cannot.  Instead it can be used by a gamer to put together something that then can be used to be played. 
 
I am currently in the middle of prepping a Fantasy Hero game. 
 
I am STILL in the middle of prepping a Fantasy Hero game.
 
But I was able to discover, buy, read, design scenarios and run them for actual playable RPG's in just a few days. 
 
Even most Hero supplements are not actually RPG's.  The Champions universe has a lots of stuff, but lacks a coherent playable setting of campaign. 
I fully understand that the primary overwhelming ideology was the belief that potential customers would suffer massive catastrophic death if anyone even hinted at a pre-designed campaign or anything that could even distantly be construed as establishing a concise character creation guide.  
 
So while Hero is my favorite RPG related system hands down.  
It is not an actual RPG that can actually be played "out of the box". 
 
No I do not have a solution, but I do not have to have one to see the problem. Just like I do not have to be a Chef to identify the cause of food poisoning.
 
 
 
 
 

There are rules for building them, to be sure.  I have ignored them for years, and will continue to do so until some time after I am dead (I intend to haunt my books a bit before moving on).
 
As other have noted, if it is a normal everyday sort of thing, then you dont pay points for it.
 
So lets get to your "hacking computer."   I would start (and get lambasted for not following the letter of the rules, and then counter with I am following the spirit of the rules!    ) with skill levels as powers, buying levels only the skill bonuses I think puts it ahead of a "normal, everyday computer."  All comouters have eidetic memory and lightning calculator, for example.
 
so...   Security Systems plus 5 (or whatever seems right)
computer programing plus 5
Concealment (to cover your tracks; this one I would probably buy the whole skill, since any Concealment the character already has is likely not specifically Cyber-concealment.  If it is, then just buy some bonuses.)
Perhaps- and while it could be justified by a GM, I wouod be hard pressed to require it) some kind of computer-to-computer telepathy to represent forcibly removing data.  Again, I wouldn't, but there are GMs who believe that "if you can shoehorn it into the concept, then you absolutely must buy it."  In this case, however, I think programming (to break into systems and files) and concealment (to know where to look for the hidden gold) would cover it all quite nicely.
 
Take the total costs, add an appropriate focus limitation (if you can be deprived of the computer) and call it a day.
 
I might go so far as to borrow from the actual computer rules and divide by whatever the current discount is (one for five?  One for ten?) Before applying the Focus Limitation.
 
 
Done.  Computer.  Essentially, the light-up box is special effects for the skilks it facilitates.
 
 

I bought Champions New Millennium (1e) and both the supplements to it. Back in the day you could also DL the Fuzion rules for free from R.Tal's website. I should also have a Fan created PDF of the whole Champions powerset Fuzion style. I also own Hero Creator which included the Fuzion template.

They had flaws, they had figured characteristics that didn't work well with the base system. IMHO it would have been better if it used the 6e style of buying secondary characteristics. It was easy to run, and my mostly newbie (to Hero or Fuzion) players got it really quickly.

I have the CNM that stripped all Fuzion out of the book. I ran CNM using Hero 5-6. It was nice to have a game city that was on the west coast. Written by people who live here in the bay area. CNM is a big loveletter to the SF Bay Area. Unfortunately, it's very outdated now.
Nah, you need the original CNM, Alliances, and Bay city. to get a full set of the rules. CNM also included truncated Mekton rules for creating vehicles. It also included Life Path for Champions which was VERY useful.

As sourcebooks they were IMHO the most accessible set of game world books that has ever been created for any Champions Edition. Characters(Villains) that I thought were boring in Champions 1-4 were interesting in CNM.

Edge case, not an edge case, "I want to give it a shot;"  "I just like it better"-   every single one of these is a valid reason to make absolutely any change you want, to any game, period.
 
And I will totally support amyone doing absolutely anything (except writing an even longer set of official rules.    ) simply because they prefer to do it that way.
 
I know you have come in and out of this board, but surely at some point you have seen Christopher Taylor and me disagree vehemently about the importance or value of making a particular change or constructing a particular build.
 
So we have disagreed?  So what?  I will never not one-hundred percent support his decision to make those changes or build a thing the way he wants it built. 
 
You want to make a change to a mechanic?  Go for it!  It hasn't been too-terribly-many days ago that I posted a home brew mechanic of my own for skill v skill resolution.  If I may repeat myself, at the time I posted it I specifically said that I did not post it because I thought it was something everyone should adopt, and I genuinely did not care if _anyone_ adopted it.  Still don't.  Sure, I hope anyone that does try it finds it worth the effort of having tried, but that's a given: I don't want to think I caused someone to lose some of the pleasure of how they play. 
 
When I speak negatively on the topic of switching to roll high, I am not speaking about the doing itself-  I think I even offered an interpretation between two supporters and a suggestion on dealing with edge case "skill level over 18" situations right in this thread.
 
What I speak against is the idea that switching one single mechanic so that the goal of a 3d6 roll is akin to that of a d20 roll will somehow make the HERO System overall more palatable to D and D players.
 
If APG 3 demonstrates official rules for leveling up and calculating large damage as something like "75 plus 1d6," we might be edging into "familiar to D and D" country, but so long as STUN and Body and Recovery and the tracking of END remain in the system, the similarity isn't even superficial.
 
Dude, if you want to change the to-hit mechanic so that you roll an actual d20, go for it!  I will one-hundred-percent support you.  Just keep in mind that doing so will make "to hit" the only part of the game that is remotely like D and D. 
 
 

Again, we agree.
 
I play 2e.  If I remember correctly, you play 5e, or 5er, I think?
 
Actually, I know _lots_ of people who play 2e (and a couple that play 5 un-e ).  Everyone I have ever taught to play plays 2e      Over the years, I have given away _easily_ thirty copies of 2e (which is why I am always on the prowl for copies at or under the 20 dollar mark), though I suppose younger people would be happy with a PDF (it's not my favorite).   I gave my own son a nigh-pristine 4e.  he has opened it, looked at the pictures, read some of the "new stuff," and that's about it.  He plays 2e, too.
 
I have plugged every new edition since 4e (I missed 3e completely, and only managed to acquire it maybe ten years or so ago), like a fan-- This is the latest and greatest version!  I have even pulled a few things from 4e and backward-ized them into 2e.  A few people picked up 4e on that recommendation.  One picked up 5e (I don't remember if it was revised or not); one picked up Sidekick (not revised), and _several_ picked up Sidekick revised.  Absolutely no one I have shown it to has picked up 6e.  You can tell their first impressions by how far their eyes bug out.  I had one guy pick up Champions Complete, but in his own words, it was "too dense."  
 
At any rate, I, too, believe that this board is a-typical of who the fans are or what they want.  I am routinely disappointed that the author of the new rules sets doesn't see it that way.   
 
I know I will stay until the bitter end, because I _did_ stay until the bitter end.  For everything in the works, compared to other games on the market, HERO is functionally dead.  The printed books are rare now, and most of the new material is through a creative license to let players make content with the agreement that it is formatted just so and doesn't include--- I don't even remember.  Setting books.  You can make setting books.  Character books, as long as the characters are new.
 
And even if we decide to argue that HERO isn't dead (and technically-speaking, it isn't), there hasn't been any support for 2e since the publication of Mugshots 2 in 1992  (yes; that was a 2e compatible book that had been delayed nearly seven years by the time it was published).  It seems fair to say that 2e is dead, if nothing else, but I'm still plugging away! 
 
 

This what I don't understand. 
Most of the gamers I know don't play D&D anyway.
 
We mostly play:
Call of Cthulhu (roll high)
Trail of Cthulhu (roll high)
Nights Black Agents (roll high)
Fear Itself (roll high)
Star Trek Adventures (roll low)
Conan (roll low)
Actung! Cthulhu (roll low)
 
As yet no one seems to fall apart from any mind boggling confusion.
The actual issue we get from D&D retreads is their tendency to be murderhobo's and want to resolve everything by killing it and wanting loot. 
 
Most of the Champions superHero games get derailed because everyone wants to be a murderhobo (Deadpool) or the grim dark vigilante (Dark Knight/Batman, the killer version) instead of playing a superhero.
 
But grade school math has never be an issue.
 
 

You're here.  Therefore you are.

This what I don't understand. 
Most of the gamers I know don't play D&D anyway.
 
We mostly play:
Call of Cthulhu (roll high)
Trail of Cthulhu (roll high)
Nights Black Agents (roll high)
Fear Itself (roll high)
Star Trek Adventures (roll low)
Conan (roll low)
Actung! Cthulhu (roll low)
 
As yet no one seems to fall apart from any mind boggling confusion.
The actual issue we get from D&D retreads is their tendency to be murderhobo's and want to resolve everything by killing it and wanting loot. 
 
Most of the Champions superHero games get derailed because everyone wants to be a murderhobo (Deadpool) or the grim dark vigilante (Dark Knight/Batman, the killer version) instead of playing a superhero.
 
But grade school math has never be an issue.
 
 

Sir, we are attempting to seduce d and d players.  It would behoove you to call them by their class names:
 
Deadrogue and Batpallidin.
 

 
 

This what I don't understand. 
Most of the gamers I know don't play D&D anyway.
 
We mostly play:
Call of Cthulhu (roll high)
Trail of Cthulhu (roll high)
Nights Black Agents (roll high)
Fear Itself (roll high)
Star Trek Adventures (roll low)
Conan (roll low)
Actung! Cthulhu (roll low)
 
As yet no one seems to fall apart from any mind boggling confusion.
The actual issue we get from D&D retreads is their tendency to be murderhobo's and want to resolve everything by killing it and wanting loot. 
 
Most of the Champions superHero games get derailed because everyone wants to be a murderhobo (Deadpool) or the grim dark vigilante (Dark Knight/Batman, the killer version) instead of playing a superhero.
 
But grade school math has never be an issue.