Panpiper

It's not so much an inconvenience, but it is certainly not as useful as having an extra potential attack move either. I'm asking more in the context of a game in which speed has 'not' been limited, though currently no character other than enemies have more than speed 6.

Could one get away with buying a free abort action, usable once per turn only? Basically buying an extra level of speed but putting the limitation on it of only being usable to abort to a defensive action? How much would you say that limitation would be worth?

Yep, that is how the game is apparently played at my table. The GM and I are the only ones who ever bother to know anything. The others don't even write down such 'details' as how much XP they have earned, how much gold they have, what items they are carrying, etc.. And these are not children. But beggars cannot be choosers I suppose. The chance of filling a gaming table with like minded gamers when one is in their 60's is vanishingly remote these days. We take what we can get.

"Taking a full 100 points in powers changes that to 'Wizard' and is worth a whopping -2 limitation." That is not 'active' points, that is character points (same thing as XP). Being a Wizard requires a large investment. Full blown Wizards would be rare in the game world. I'd be a bit disappointed if we didn't have one as a player though. Every troupe of adventurers needs a Gandalf. I should probably append as well a caution to any and all. While I would have no rule stating someone 'must' spend character points in skills, knowledges and the like, it likely will have a deleterious impact in the XP growth of your character if you neglect that side of things too much. PbP is HIGHLY weighted towards role playing and I would be heavily abstracting any combat with player tactics and results simply narrated. XP rewards would be massively skewed towards the quality of the role play interaction rather than beating up bad guys. Skills and such will likely play a far greater role in one's ability to not just progress, but also have fun. Real world has distracted me lately, so this is going slower than I anticipated originally.

A few years ago I finished playing (as a player) in a five year long campaign of 5th Ed Super Fantasy. The universe was being destroyed by a multiverse collision, and our quest was to find a way to preserve the continuity of sentience. The campaign ended when we succeeded. In both my and the GM's 40 year history of playing, that was the only instance of a game resolving to it's final conclusion with success. I still play with the same group, but sadly we are now playing D&D, because even after five years of playing, none of the other players still had the first clue how to play Hero System. Over the last few years, I have learned they don't have the first clue how to play D&D either apparently. I am doomed. My starting character in that Super Fantasy game attached, in case anyone is curious. Vestige.pdf

Most of my posting to this forum happened a decade ago. Doesn't matter though, I have forgotten most of what I once knew about Hero.

I have a vague recollection of writing something like that once, at least coming up with a multipower to define special martial arts maneuvers. Wouldn't it be cute if I chanced to be the author.

What is CBR?

I like having pregens, not because I would necessarily want to play one, occasional exceptions not withstanding, but because it gives me a FAR better idea as to relative power balance to aim for when building a character myself, than does a set of abstract guidelines. That's in my case at least. As always though, I expect a GM to want to tweak any character I submit and do my darnedest not to make too much fuss about their decisions.

Bingo! Thank you. 'That' is what would make it worth the extra limitation.

Hero Designer allows us to take both complex gestures and requires both hands, both of which add an additional -1/4 limitation. If you take gestures and flag both complex gestures and requires both hands, it gives you a -3/4 limitation.

In Hero Designer when adding limitations to powers, when you select gestures the program allows us to select 'complex' with those gestures for an additional -1/4 limitation bonus. I have no idea what changes between complex gestures and regular gestures to make it worth more of a limitation. Does anyone have a clue? It is not in the main rule books. Anyone know where this is defined?

Something to consider... A rule I have given to myself in a couple of games run by GMs who were themselves new, running new players who invariably had, to be generous, less than optimum characters... New GMs have no idea just how effective an experienced Hero player can make a character. However without cheesy exploits, there is still a power limit defined by available points. My trick in those cases was to give myself the rule, communicated of course to the GM so he knew what I was doing, that I could spend half my character points on combat, in any way I chose (excepting cheese), and the other half had to be spent on non-combat utility and RP. If everyone held to such a rule, I suspect you might have a fairly balanced group while still allowing players to build their own.

There is no defeating your argument. If you are the GM, you get to define the terms of your game. It is up to everyone else solely whether they want to play or not. For most new players, this is likely to not just be the easier choice, but will result in a more effective character. I have frequently seen newbies show up to a game with a character they have built themselves with such glaring flaws in their construction as to be functionally useless. A character you build will not likely suffer from such faults. The downside of course is that many players are drawn to Hero System precisely because they enjoy the process of building characters, and this approach deprives them of much of that pleasure. That can be mitigated to a degree by allowing players some freedom with how they spend experience points. Also perhaps while building, leave a few points free that the player can allocate as they choose before the first game, so they can feel some personalization for the design you hand them. I can well understand your motive, and it is not wrong. I have been frequently tempted to do something similar on those rare occasions I have GMed. Players have a natural tendency to power creep, to push as close as they can to maximum effectiveness. If everyone does this to the exact same degree, there is no problem for balance with the game, the GM just tailors encounters to the power level the players have defined for themselves. The downside is that it is never equal. One or more players will emphasize combat to the max and be quite a bit more powerful than someone else who emphasized role playing, which can skew both balance and enjoyment. The role player will feel slighted in combat and the powerful one will have so little to do outside of combat that they will enjoy nothing else. I would again return to my suggestion made before. Build the characters yourself based upon description, with some discussion, but leave something like ten points unspent. Let the player spend those ten points however they want. The power player will buy up their strength and a couple of levels with their favorite weapon (or similar) and the role player will add a few skills and/or skill levels. Things will not be completely out of whack and the players will feel more ownership of the resulting characters.

The games I am currently playing are: https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/225402/heroes-unlimited and https://www.rpgcrossing.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18102 I find there to be very little mechanical difference between 4th edition and 5th edition Hero. Hero Designer can be set to create characters in 5th edition all of which will work perfectly in 4th. Personally I would much rather not jump into yet another version,

Yea, that's a good bit 'more' than what I meant myself. 😉 My backgrounds often do tell a bit of a story, but they rarely extend more than a couple of pages. For instance... Posted character can now be found on this thread; Ref: Hecate

I do not doubt or deny that there are a great many who do care about what race or sex or sexual persuasion people are on screen. I do assert that that kind of identitarian tribalism is fundamentally racist. Those who scream the loudest about it are themselves the most guilty. Perhaps that is why they scream. They see in everyone else that which they know of themselves.

I'm playing in a weekly game (4th edition Champions) that recently started using Roll20. I am also involved in a Play by Post game (6th edition Teen Supers), that is infuriatingly slow. That may look like I am full up. However I am also retired and spend my days in front of a computer with little to do but surf the web or play computer games, and of late, the computer games are lackluster. I would love to get involved with more Hero, as that is by FAR my favorite game system. I am perfectly capable of building characters and playing with 6th edition, but I prefer the earlier versions personally. I've been known to GM, but frankly I suck at it, simply not putting in the time and imagination necessary to do it well. As a player I do reasonably well, as my favorite thing to do is to create characters and flesh them out. I am wont to write rather detailed backgrounds, but little if any of it requires GM followup unless they feel inspired by it. It's mostly for flavor and understanding my character. I have a personal preference for fantasy, but it is not a strong preference. I am available pretty much any time other than Tuesday and Thursday evenings EST. I am Canadian living in Montreal.

Well, technically, as long as there are women around, there could be procreation regardless. Two of my best friends are a lesbian couple. They wanted a kid, and asked me to help. Their being lesbians was not a hindrance to procreation. But yea, I am equally non politically correct with how virtue signalling 'woke' people are trying to be. The idea that people need people of their own race or sexual persuasion in order to identify with them is IMO, a pretty racist idea itself. I am a white male. I have absolutely no issue with identifying with a female protagonist, a black protagonist, or any manner of sexual persuasion, because my own 'identity' has nothing to do with such tribalism. I am a human being and a unique individual, as is everyone else, as are the hero protagonists in movies, etc.. I identify with them on that level. No racism or sexism involved.

My favorite RPG of all time was 4th Edition Fantasy Hero. Just saying.

I watched Stargirl last night and enjoyed it. No telling how long that might last of course. It's usually the writing that turns me off of television shows, the propensity of their protagonists to be idiots for the sake of 'drama'. There wasn't too much of that, but the night is young. The opening battle was excellent.

I wrote this as something to help a group of players new to the Hero System just starting a 4th edition Champions game. Would anyone care to give this a read through and critique with any suggestions for important details I might have missed or gotten wrong? I would rather keep it short so as to ensure player will actually read it, but not so short that it is missing crucial info. General Advice When Creating Champions/Hero System Characters There are several factors you want to pay strong attention to when you create a character in Hero System (Champions, etc.). All of them are important. Ignoring any of them will leave your character weak or vulnerable in a way you will rapidly find not fun. Of course having a cool character concept, background, etc., is important too, but I am going to focus here more on the mechanics of the system, how to balance characteristics, powers, etc.. The ideal character will have a reliable means of helping to take down bad guys, or some other way of meaningfully helping the rest of the party do so. They should also not be overly vulnerable to attacks from bad guys, lest they be quickly downed. A downed character is neither helpful nor fun. A character will greatly benefit from at least some additional movement ability, even if that's just a few inches of extra running. Finally it's really nice to have a few useful skills one can use outside of combat, ideally skills that fit with your cool character concept. How much, how big Hero System is a game with thresholds, meaning you need to do enough damage to an opponent that it actually gets through their defenses with enough stun (or whatever effect) for it to actually be worth the use of your action phase. The gold standard for super hero level Champions is a 12d6 attack. This does enough stun to reliably get a decent amount over an enemies defenses. Even an extremely tough enemy will feel a 12d6 attack. Much less than that starts to be weak, unless it targets defenses that are themselves weak or has a special effect that the target is vulnerable to. Mind attacks can be powerful with as little as 5 or 6 dice of effect, as could a 'no normal defense' attack like say a gas attack (defense is breathing gear or not needing to breathe). One can get away with an energy blast that is a dice or two lower in many cases because opponents often have lower ED than they do PD defense. Moreover with a range attack, you have more choice of targets so can often pick a more vulnerable target. That said, I would still try to have such a ranged energy attack be 12d6, because then your character would be a true force to be reckoned with. How to Win In a fight, what you really want to do is to stun an opponent. You stun an opponent by having more damage get through their defense than their constitution stat. If that happens, their DCV drops and they lose their next turn to recovering from stun. Usually team mates are able to hit the stunned character and put them down for the count, if they take advantage of the opportunity. (Always take advantage of such an opportunity.) The flip side of this of course is that you want to avoid the same thing happening to your character. If your character gets hit with a 12d6 attack, that will do an average of 42 stun. If you have a defense of 20 and a constitution also of 20, you are stunned and likely the target now of a few more incoming shots from other bad guys. You are going to go down fast. So you want to avoid being stunned by such an attack. There are essentially two ways to do this. The first and most obvious way to avoid being stunned by an average 12d6 attack is to have sufficiently high constitution and/or defenses that what gets through does not exceed your constitution. The other way is to not get hit at all. Not getting hit relies on having a high DCV, which means either an unusually high dexterity stat, or a few 'combat skill levels' devoted to defense. Usually more dex is the cost effective way to do this. To note is that ranged characters can often get away with having a slightly lower DCV, simply because many attacks against them will necessarily be at range, meaning the attacker is likely to suffer range penalties to their attack. When you build a character, decide which of these two approaches you will take towards not being too easy to take down, and then invest in it sufficiently to do the job. All characters regardless of how hard they are to hit should have AT LEAST 12-15 PD/ED to avoid having their character literally killed by typical attacks that none the less get through. Reducing Costs You can trim a good few points off of some things by taking limitations on them. Don't go overboard with this though, because those limitations can and will come back to haunt you at inopportune moments. Expect supervillains to do as much research as you might. They could figure out your vulnerabilities and weaknesses and exploit them. Moreover, limitations have diminishing returns. You can save a lot of points by having an appropriately thematic -1/4 limitation on one or more a powers, but a -1/2 limitation won't give you twice the point savings. Another way to save points is to think about elemental controls and multipowers. An elemental control is great for when you have a few powers that are all united by a strong theme that you need to keep active or in use most if not all the time. A multipower is useful for when you have several abilities, also united by a theme or special effect, but that you would normally use only one at a time. For the mechanics of building such things, consult the rule books, use Hero Designer, or send me an Email describing what you are thinking of, and I'll help you build it. Attached Example Character I've created a sample character by way of example, Stormy Johnson. There is a bit of everything I mentioned in this character. Note that while this character is clearly a bit of a knockoff of Johnny Storm of the Fantastic Four, he is nowhere near as capable as the comic version. That is because we are playing 'starting' heroes, not heroes who have had decades of accumulated experience points. 😉 The PDF attached will open a basic character sheet. Note that the only point where Stormy is actually weak is in the limitations placed on his flame powers. This is deliberate, as it gives our GM an easy way to contrive interesting situations for Stormy to have to resolve. That said, as long as he plays to his strengths and works through such challenges, he is more than capable of holding his own. His energy blast is strong and reliable, his defenses are excellent, he will not be stunned easily. His movement ability is top notch, likely good enough to maintain any preferred range. He has a few combat skill levels that can make his energy blast genuinely effective, and in a pinch be used defensively as well. Especially at range, he will not be particularly easy to hit either with a decent dex. His speed is also excellent allowing him six moves/attacks per turn. Combined with his flight he can really move. Finally he has a few thematic skills to use out of combat that compliment his character. Of note is that I spent almost as much time coming up with appropriate and thematic disadvantages for him as I did spending points. 125 points of disadvantages is a LOT to come up with. That said, the effort you make to come up with them will really force you to create personality and backstory you likely would not have otherwise. I had zero backstory in mind when I built Stormy. However by the time I finished those disadvantages, his character and backstory was very obviously clearly defined, without having written a single word in actual backstory text. (As this is just an example character, I forgoed actually writing a backstory text.) As always I remain available if anyone has questions or wants help with their character. All of this may appear overwhelming, and while I assure you it is fairly straight forward once you grok the basic concepts, it is also quite easy for someone else such as myself to create characters based on someone else's conception, so do not be shy about asking for such help if you don't want to have to do it all yourself. Stormy Johnson.pdf

Thank you. There was a time, long ago perhaps if my faulty memory is correct, that a Hero Designer licence expired after a couple of years. I am pretty sure I recall purchasing it twice way back so as to update. I guess I just assumed that remained the case. Very happy to learn otherwise. Hero Designer is SUCH a wonderfully useful program, I could not possibly recommend it more strongly for anyone creating characters in Hero.

My Hero Designer dates from 2015. Have there been any improvements to Hero Designer since then that are significant enough to warrant me purchasing it again, so as to download the latest version?

We played our first game the other night and we had a grand old time. Roll20 worked just fine for us. The game continues next week, and I can hardly wait. Such a pleasure to revisit my favorite game in my favorite edition (I've also resurrected my favorite character, reincarnated from the 80's).