Hugh Neilson

1d6 Continuous AoE Stun Drain, 0 END, No Range, 1 Fuel Charge (how long can the candles burn continuously before they run out?), recovers immediately if candles snuffed.  Held by a 2 SPD individual, everyone within the radius who is asleep takes an average of 7 STUN per turn.  Light it up, wait a minute and they are not waking up while you rob the place.  The STUN comes back, and they are as asleep as they were before, when the candles are snuffed.

How fortunate that, in the real world (you feel Thanos' motivations are unrealistic, right?), people NEVER rally behind a really stupid solution to a very real, scary and complex problems. 
 
Or does that happen on occasion? 
 
Hey, let's build a wall to keep illegal immigrants from slipping in over the Rio Grande!
 
You know what would REALLY help low income earners?  Trickle down economics!
 
Hey, let's outlaw alcohol - that will resolve all the abuse problems, and would never boost organized crime!
 
Laissez-faire - the Invisible Hand of the Free Market will ensure economic equity!
 
This is a kid-friendly board, I hope, so we will not address some brilliant ideas for solving the problem of teen pregnancy!
 
And, of course, those promoting really stupid solutions are always 100% honest about their motives, both to themselves and to the outside world, right?
 
 
Viewed in light of my comments above, I see another socio-political statement one could intuit.
 
Or we could assume that the writers wanted to sell  movie tickets, and a "villain" with really noble intentions, and a solid and rational plan to achieve them, isn't the best draw for action movies to become a summer blockbuster.\
 
What was Shakespeare really trying to say?  "My rent is due and my family wants to eat" is a strong possibility!
 
 
I've never been sure where the line was drawn.  I don't recall half of the trees and underbrush vanishing.
 
hmmm...looks like the Politics and MCU threads had a one-night stand!

I am largely with Jhamin on this subject. I also feel that 6e is the current release, the only one that will have new products and the one that will be best supported on virtual table tops. So those are other reasons in the +6e column for me. For instance, I am working on a character importer for Roll20, and I am doing it for 6e because that is the latest release.
 
- E

Long story short: the mechanics are 90% the same as 4th.

From a Hero system perspective:
The costs for several powers have changed
The details of how several powers work have changed
A couple powers were altered to be subsets of other powers (Transfer is now a Drain and an Aid bought together instead of a separate power for example)
Figured characteristics have been removed (buying more con no longer gives you more stun, you buy each separately).
5th edition allowed characters to throw multiple attacks on one attack action.  Apparently this was *always* intended to be in Hero since 1st, but wording was ambiguous.  Now it isn't, and 6th carries on in this.  It ended up not being as big a deal as was feared, but it's a thing.
Characters are no longer required to have as many disadvantages
There are new powers, new advantages, new ways of doing things, new stuff
 
The original 6E grew to two books of just rules with extensive examples and options.  For some folks this got to be too much.
The most recent version of the rules is in Champions Complete, which dials back the wordiness quite a bit and fits Hero and Champions back into one book again.
Champions Complete and 6E book 1 and 2 are basically the same rules, Champions Complete is just more concise.

From a Champions Perspective (if you are playing supers)
Starting characters get more points, the feeling was this does a better job of simulating modern comics
Campaign limits/suggestions make characters hit harder and take hits a little less well.  This isnt a change in the rules but a change in the recommended builds.  It makes fights go quicker
*Lots* of stuff in the "Champions Universe" has changed.  When 5th came out the universe was reshaped to only include characters that Hero actually owned and took another crack at lots of characters.  6th ed mostly kept what 5th had put into place.

Overall:
If you already have all your old books and just want to play with those, go ahead. 
If you want to be able to use the more modern books, I'd go ahead & pick up the 6E rules.

How fortunate that, in the real world (you feel Thanos' motivations are unrealistic, right?), people NEVER rally behind a really stupid solution to a very real, scary and complex problems. 
 
Or does that happen on occasion? 
 
Hey, let's build a wall to keep illegal immigrants from slipping in over the Rio Grande!
 
You know what would REALLY help low income earners?  Trickle down economics!
 
Hey, let's outlaw alcohol - that will resolve all the abuse problems, and would never boost organized crime!
 
Laissez-faire - the Invisible Hand of the Free Market will ensure economic equity!
 
This is a kid-friendly board, I hope, so we will not address some brilliant ideas for solving the problem of teen pregnancy!
 
And, of course, those promoting really stupid solutions are always 100% honest about their motives, both to themselves and to the outside world, right?
 
 
Viewed in light of my comments above, I see another socio-political statement one could intuit.
 
Or we could assume that the writers wanted to sell  movie tickets, and a "villain" with really noble intentions, and a solid and rational plan to achieve them, isn't the best draw for action movies to become a summer blockbuster.\
 
What was Shakespeare really trying to say?  "My rent is due and my family wants to eat" is a strong possibility!
 
 
I've never been sure where the line was drawn.  I don't recall half of the trees and underbrush vanishing.
 
hmmm...looks like the Politics and MCU threads had a one-night stand!

How fortunate that, in the real world (you feel Thanos' motivations are unrealistic, right?), people NEVER rally behind a really stupid solution to a very real, scary and complex problems. 
 
Or does that happen on occasion? 
 
Hey, let's build a wall to keep illegal immigrants from slipping in over the Rio Grande!
 
You know what would REALLY help low income earners?  Trickle down economics!
 
Hey, let's outlaw alcohol - that will resolve all the abuse problems, and would never boost organized crime!
 
Laissez-faire - the Invisible Hand of the Free Market will ensure economic equity!
 
This is a kid-friendly board, I hope, so we will not address some brilliant ideas for solving the problem of teen pregnancy!
 
And, of course, those promoting really stupid solutions are always 100% honest about their motives, both to themselves and to the outside world, right?
 
 
Viewed in light of my comments above, I see another socio-political statement one could intuit.
 
Or we could assume that the writers wanted to sell  movie tickets, and a "villain" with really noble intentions, and a solid and rational plan to achieve them, isn't the best draw for action movies to become a summer blockbuster.\
 
What was Shakespeare really trying to say?  "My rent is due and my family wants to eat" is a strong possibility!
 
 
I've never been sure where the line was drawn.  I don't recall half of the trees and underbrush vanishing.
 
hmmm...looks like the Politics and MCU threads had a one-night stand!

Couple more thoughts. Lonewolf I took your quoted words perhaps more negatively than you implied so just to be clear, if that is the case then the following is t directed at you but to those whom would accept the quote in the very negative that I read into.
 
With the “GM” responsibility remark is there any wonder why then the is bloat of Rules? If it is truly solely the GM’s responsibility then the average GM would like to know more how various Powers interact as so to keep balance and stop abuse. We have a varied Power and Flexible base which means that it is harder to cover all instances but if that is required then either there needs to be MORE RULES, especially edge cases or MORE NOs which will affect on how creative a character could be built.  Really part of allowing a player to build his own character is the trust that the player won’t abuse the rules. If a player wants to play the “well I know it’s abusive but I’ll see if I can sneak it in trick” then for fairness to other players the GM would either ban the player from the game or just say “here’s a list of 4 pre approved characters, choose one if you want to play.” I rather play to have fun. I have enough of disciplining my own kids, I don’t need to do that with players.

6E1 page 320: Like Area Of Effect (Radius), an Area Of Effect (Cone) is three-dimensional.

I will suggest one problem is that many checks and balances rely on the people.  If a significant portion of the population would support Party X even if they ran on a platform that they will require all citizens to report to the capitol every Tuesday to have large rock dropped on their heads, then "the people" have abdicated their role in the process, and the process fails.  If the population is engaged and informed, the process becomes functional.
 
I wonder why so few governments support an educational process which develops critical thinking skills over parroting back a canned curriculum.

I'm not sure why it would reduce DCV either, but this feels like "aiming for a specific vulnerable part of the target".  Actually, I prefer the reduced OCV for a "Swing wildly for the fences" haymaker.  less likely to connect with that horribly wild swing, but if it DOES connect...it REALLY connects.

In would say "statting it out in game terms" can include "this will have no significant in-game effect, whether positive or negative, and therefore is a zero-point ability".

As is typically the case, I don't have much idea what you are meaning to do.  I can only read what you said.  You said your big issue was that allowing this kind of all-out attack with a bow is not realistic and you would not allow it.  That left open the questions of whether you acknowledged that:
 
 - this is a deliberate choice to depart from the rules as written, not an "interpretation of the rules" call;
 - your "realism" is cinematic; and
 - your "realism" even accords with reality (I didn't address that one as I am not an archery expert, although it seems reasonable that over-extending the bow to get more power would have negative consequences like reduced accuracy and/or limiting reaction speed so losing some DCV).  You also said "I only allow haymaker for melee weapons or fists", and I noted that I do not see how we assess real-world realism of projecting flame, sucking out a target's soul or overriding their neurons with a potent burst of pure mental energy.
 
TL;DR - you seem to have difficulty differentiating between objective realism (e.g. "violence causes long-lasting effects, a reality not consistent with repeatedly being knocked out by blunt force trauma causing no long-lasting in-game effects) and your own subjective interpretation of realism ("there is no possible valid in-game special effect for an all-out attack with a ranged weapon enhancing damage at the cost of evading counterattacks").
 
Oh, just to spare another poster on the thread some time, I know you told me so...in fact, I thought of that very exchange as I typed my initial comments further up.

So, among the best post on the thread, and its author disclaims the knowledge to be a good contributor.
 
Welcome to the Anti-Internet.

OK, first for Duke:  As Light Illusions evolved into Images over the editions, the d6s compared to INT times # went away.  Unlike mental powers, it did not evolve into INT + #.  Images in later editions are adjudicated with PER rolls, with more complex images providing a bonus, and the ability to purchase penalties, as well as the various sense groups.  So Images to Sight, Hearing, Smell and Touch (the slime feels slimy - it still can't attack or hold an object up) costs 25 points, and might also add 15 points for a -5 penalty to PER rolls to notice some flaw in the image, then slap a +1/2 AoE on the whole thing to make it bigger than its base 1 cubic meter.  There's a 60 AP Images power.
 
Spending 60 points on Images and getting +90 PRE that Costs END out of the deal seems inappropriate at best.  I think Lonewolf's suggestion to use PRE modifiers instead is far better.  So how might I apply these?
 
 
Automatic if the character wants it.  Images is a Power, so that comes free like it does with Blast or Flight.
 
 
All seem applicable.  I think I would base the soliloquy on the same bases as a normal PRE attack.  The Image may even lack sound, but "My friend here may think otherwise" could be a soliloquy.  Same for setting and surprise.
 
Perhaps, given the PER roll penalties go in two's, we allow +1d6 for Violent Action automatically, and you can have an extra +1d6 for each 2 points they fail the PER roll by, capped at +3d6 in total.  Or maybe we just allow the level of violence in the action, assessed normally, but you can add a +2 PER roll bonus for each added 1d6 of PRE attack you want on top of what you have already earned.  Making it more impressive makes it easier to spot a flaw.
 
You bought +xd6 PRE attacks linked to Images as well?  That will be a VERY impressive image!

In would say "statting it out in game terms" can include "this will have no significant in-game effect, whether positive or negative, and therefore is a zero-point ability".

As someone completely outside comic book fandom who gets semi-regular exposure to comic book fans (about a third of my players are comic book fans, and they leave comics around regularly, particularly when it's something "you just _must_ read"), I am going to state with honesty and without malice that there are no comic book authors to which these statements do not apply.
 
 

Used as basic guidelines, this makes sense.  But tacking on "oh, you can trade off a reduction here for a bonus there" is moving from Guideline to Rule Structure. 
 
The entirety has to be taken in the context of how you present it to the players, of course.  But if I'm a rookie player, and you tell me it's OK to trade off, say, OCV for defenses, I am taking you at your word.  The result may be Invulnerable Guy with a big AoE attack, offset by low CVs, and I may not even know (as a rookie player) that this is unbalanced.  A player coming from a d20 background might think a glass cannon is as viable here as a Wizard with lousy AC and hit points is in D&D, and build a character that's demolished by a single hit, not realizing how likely that single hit is under the Hero rules.
 
I think one key addition I would make (whether intended as a basic guideline or a hard and fast rule) would be to limit the tradeoffs.  You can increase any of these by lowering the cap on others, but you can't increase attacks by more than (say) 3 DC, or defenses by more than 15 total PD and ED, or CVs by more than 3.  I'd add SPD to that - maybe baseline is 5 SPD, but you can drop to 4 and raise another cap, or go to 6 or 7 by lowering another cap by 10 or 20 "CLM" respectively.  That creates some boundaries with scope for some variability.
 
Adding in a suggestion that you likely need at least x DCs to hit effectively.  Unlike D&D, where that 1d6 attack still plinks a few hp through with its 3.5 average roll, even when small compared to a more combat-ready character's 1d10 + 16, average 21.5, if the standard in a Hero game is 6d6, average of 21, that 1d6 will be worthless.  You should have at least x OCV (to hit an average opponent on an 8-).  A spread of +5 to hit in D&D isn't much compared to a 5 point spread in Hero.  And my AC 12 Wizard in d20 works a lot better than having 3 PD and ED, none resistant, will in Hero.
 
With a reasonable group of players, guidelines can be pretty vague for experienced Hero players, but not as much for gamers with no Hero experience.  With this level of detail, I'm assuming "a standard 12 DC Supers game" would be meaningless to the players.

As far as I’m concerned, if a player wants to use Haymaker for a Bow and say the sfx effect is careful aim, I’m fine with it. Sfx is separate from mechanics, no? And it is cinematically appropriate too in my mind.

You have failed this Internet!

It's probably easier to multiply STR by the advantage.  +1/4 advantage means +4 DC costs 25 points, so you need +25 STR/4 =6.25, so:
 
Add 1d6 = 6 STR
Add 2d6 = 12 STR
Add 3d6 = 19 STR
Add 4d6 = 25 STR
 
I find this tougher for adding DCs like Martial maneuvers, where you need 1,2,3,5 DC to add +4d6, so:
 
Add 1d6 = 1 DC
Add 2d6 = 2 DC
Add 3d6 = 4 DC
Add 4d6 = 5 DC
 
What if it's a +1/2 advantage?  Well
 
Add 1d6 = 7 STR or 1 DC
Add 2d6 = 15 STR or 3 DC
Add 3d6 = 22 STR or 4 DC
Add 4d6 = 30 STR or 6 DC
 
If I am running a character who uses advantaged weaponry, I'd list out the increases.  For a group, charts for the various advantages, and just listing the weapons in each chart, might simplify things.
 
FAQ:
 
Q: WAAH - there are dead points when I need extra STR/an extra DC does nothing.
A:  Suck it up, buttercup - d20 has "dead levels" where certain abilities don't advance and sweet spots where rounding makes +1 more advantageous too.

Especially with Hero branching out to try new things, I really think we need a "game powered by Hero" which takes the above into account.
 
Let's assume Fantasy because that is where the market starts.  What does the game need?
 
It needs to explain the stats.  Maybe not all of them.  Maybe we actually build some as combined stats.  Maybe STR comes bundled with some STUN and some PD and CON comes bundled with some END, REC and ED.  Perhaps everyone gets 10 BOD and 3 SPD by default.  Those need not be the choices, but choices are needed.
 
It needs to provide some races, cultures, archetypes, vocations and/or backgrounds.  62 (above) seems like a lot.  Let's say 4 human cultures and 6 non-human races (you select one of the 10 choices), 12 vocations (segregated into 4 archetypes such as "Warrior", "Mage", "Devoted" and "Rogue" (you pick one) and 15 Backgrounds (pick 1).  If we got to 12 backgrounds and were out of great ideas, stop.  if we had two more great Cultures, add them.  But the number of choices must be manageable.
 
Now, let's make each Race/Culture cost 50 points, each Vocation costs 100 and each Background costs 25.  That's your 175 starting points.  DONE.  Within each, we might have choices (e.g. select 5 skills from this list; select 3 Prayers from the Orisons list and 2 from the Miracles, Minor list).  
 
Now we need to describe the skills, those mechanics taken up in the abilities gained through Vocations and the game play rules.  That's our Rules section.  Too many rules to fit the page count?  Cut something, and take all abilities related to it away. 
 
Now, let's pick a setting.  Maybe this will be a Turakian Age game, or perhaps we start from scratch.  Pick a location in the broader world and provide enough detail to make it a "home base".  MAYBE provide some broader info on the bigger world, but that's space permitting.  We can have a full world book, or new region books, later.  They can even have new races, cultures, vocations and/or backgrounds.  Provide some monsters and some short starting adventures.  Provide an xp system, but all they can do with xp is increase stats, buy new or improved skills or buy new picks from their race, vocation or background.  Don't even offer the option of buying from other cultures, backgrounds or vocations.
 
Get the adventure rolling, and map out a broader "adventure path" surrounding it.  If it sells, we can make Book 2 - more adventure, and some more character options for more powerful characters.  We left room for Miracles well past Minor, and should do so in all "vocation powers" structures.  They want to custom-design abilities and powers and new gear and new monsters and and and and?  Buy the Hero System.  Unlike most games, you can look under the hood and customize the game using the same toolbox the designers worked from.  Want more pre-designed stuff?  If you keep buying the books, we'll keep making the books!
 
But make and sell a game.  Not a "here is the huge system and an enormous list of options for what you can do to build a game within it".  A game already built from that huge system, pre-selecting the options for the gamers.  Is that for sure what they want, and it will fly off the shelves?  Nothing is for sure.  Is it similar to other gaming products, some of which pull in a lot more sales than Hero has in the recent past?  I hope so because that was the idea.

Actually, I think a far better product than "Psionic Hero" would be an actual "Game Powered by Hero" Heroic Level psychic game.
 
Maybe it's a "psychics among us" game - these powers exist, but are well-hidden and people work hard to keep it that way.  Maybe it's "noble psionics protecting the mindblind from psionics who would exploit them", or maybe it's various devious groups, each after their own advantage, and their own advantage alone.  Maybe it's modern world, or future-earth, or cold war earth, or scattered across a futuristic galaxy.
 
But pick one.  One theme.  One setting.  One way psionic powers work.  Whether normal weapons are typically also used or whether they are not.  Whether psionic powers can generate a force field making targets bulletproof or whether a gun is just as fatal to the most powerful psychic as to an ordinary guy on the street.
 
And write up that specific game that people can read through, pick some stats, gear and psionic powers and build characters they are ready to play at 2 PM next Saturday.
 
Not a Book of Infinitie Options you could use to build that game, or a slightly different game, or a completely different game, or a thousand and one different games.  One. Game.  that can be played right from the book.

Actually, I think a far better product than "Psionic Hero" would be an actual "Game Powered by Hero" Heroic Level psychic game.
 
Maybe it's a "psychics among us" game - these powers exist, but are well-hidden and people work hard to keep it that way.  Maybe it's "noble psionics protecting the mindblind from psionics who would exploit them", or maybe it's various devious groups, each after their own advantage, and their own advantage alone.  Maybe it's modern world, or future-earth, or cold war earth, or scattered across a futuristic galaxy.
 
But pick one.  One theme.  One setting.  One way psionic powers work.  Whether normal weapons are typically also used or whether they are not.  Whether psionic powers can generate a force field making targets bulletproof or whether a gun is just as fatal to the most powerful psychic as to an ordinary guy on the street.
 
And write up that specific game that people can read through, pick some stats, gear and psionic powers and build characters they are ready to play at 2 PM next Saturday.
 
Not a Book of Infinitie Options you could use to build that game, or a slightly different game, or a completely different game, or a thousand and one different games.  One. Game.  that can be played right from the book.

Actually, I think a far better product than "Psionic Hero" would be an actual "Game Powered by Hero" Heroic Level psychic game.
 
Maybe it's a "psychics among us" game - these powers exist, but are well-hidden and people work hard to keep it that way.  Maybe it's "noble psionics protecting the mindblind from psionics who would exploit them", or maybe it's various devious groups, each after their own advantage, and their own advantage alone.  Maybe it's modern world, or future-earth, or cold war earth, or scattered across a futuristic galaxy.
 
But pick one.  One theme.  One setting.  One way psionic powers work.  Whether normal weapons are typically also used or whether they are not.  Whether psionic powers can generate a force field making targets bulletproof or whether a gun is just as fatal to the most powerful psychic as to an ordinary guy on the street.
 
And write up that specific game that people can read through, pick some stats, gear and psionic powers and build characters they are ready to play at 2 PM next Saturday.
 
Not a Book of Infinitie Options you could use to build that game, or a slightly different game, or a completely different game, or a thousand and one different games.  One. Game.  that can be played right from the book.

Actually, I think a far better product than "Psionic Hero" would be an actual "Game Powered by Hero" Heroic Level psychic game.
 
Maybe it's a "psychics among us" game - these powers exist, but are well-hidden and people work hard to keep it that way.  Maybe it's "noble psionics protecting the mindblind from psionics who would exploit them", or maybe it's various devious groups, each after their own advantage, and their own advantage alone.  Maybe it's modern world, or future-earth, or cold war earth, or scattered across a futuristic galaxy.
 
But pick one.  One theme.  One setting.  One way psionic powers work.  Whether normal weapons are typically also used or whether they are not.  Whether psionic powers can generate a force field making targets bulletproof or whether a gun is just as fatal to the most powerful psychic as to an ordinary guy on the street.
 
And write up that specific game that people can read through, pick some stats, gear and psionic powers and build characters they are ready to play at 2 PM next Saturday.
 
Not a Book of Infinitie Options you could use to build that game, or a slightly different game, or a completely different game, or a thousand and one different games.  One. Game.  that can be played right from the book.