Killer Shrike

Ya, I've considered variations on this idea in the past. A few considerations:
 
My great concern for schemes such as this is that I think it will slow down combat resolution by adding an additional decision making step to each segment. Players are not always the most decisive people, but even if you have players who make snap decisions it could also cause an escalation round...in what order do characters decide...can a player / GM change their bid in response to someone else raising their effective DEX? You'd probably want to resolve each character in _reverse_ DEX order such that the lowest DEX has to commit to rushing before asking the next higher DEX, with no takebacks. I could talk about the game theory of such a rushing mini-game at length, but generally speaking my goal as the GM is to speed up the mechanical aspect of combat so as to leave more room for roleplaying and narrative, not slow it down further.
 
If you are going to allow rushing as you describe it, then for symmetry you should probably allow for the opposite...going down in the DEX order to get a bonus. We have something similar for skills as it is. If it makes sense to take a -1 penalty to get +2 DEX, does it also make sense to take -2 DEX for a +1 bonus? If that makes sense, what kind of bonus should I get for rolling over into my next phase? That starts to fall apart conceptually pretty quickly. 
 
Same idea in reverse, if I can take a penalty to raise my DEX in my phase, why can't I take a penalty to "rush" my action into the segment before my phase? 
 
 

It is a mechanic that encourages "Alpha Strikes" which are usually unhealthy in the long term. It synergizes with AoE's as they are substantially less impacted by taking a OCV penalty. It adds variance to combat calculus, making it more difficult as the GM to gauge likely outcomes and balance encounters. And so on.
 
But, you know, nothing preventing you from trying it out.

Ya, I've considered variations on this idea in the past. A few considerations:
 
My great concern for schemes such as this is that I think it will slow down combat resolution by adding an additional decision making step to each segment. Players are not always the most decisive people, but even if you have players who make snap decisions it could also cause an escalation round...in what order do characters decide...can a player / GM change their bid in response to someone else raising their effective DEX? You'd probably want to resolve each character in _reverse_ DEX order such that the lowest DEX has to commit to rushing before asking the next higher DEX, with no takebacks. I could talk about the game theory of such a rushing mini-game at length, but generally speaking my goal as the GM is to speed up the mechanical aspect of combat so as to leave more room for roleplaying and narrative, not slow it down further.
 
If you are going to allow rushing as you describe it, then for symmetry you should probably allow for the opposite...going down in the DEX order to get a bonus. We have something similar for skills as it is. If it makes sense to take a -1 penalty to get +2 DEX, does it also make sense to take -2 DEX for a +1 bonus? If that makes sense, what kind of bonus should I get for rolling over into my next phase? That starts to fall apart conceptually pretty quickly. 
 
Same idea in reverse, if I can take a penalty to raise my DEX in my phase, why can't I take a penalty to "rush" my action into the segment before my phase? 
 
 

Just to clarify, the fantasy content on my site is not _just_ conversions. In fact, the conversion content is a small fraction of the material. And, even within the area of conversions, there is more than one way to "convert" from one game system to another, including a full reboot...which I talked about in this document:
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/SystemConversionStyles.aspx
 
The "Reboot conversion", which sounds like the approach you are taking, says this:
 
Reboot Conversion Another approach to conversion is to basically leave the old system behind and just use the mechanics of the new game system as is, reinterpreting characters in the new system and simply ignoring anything from the old game that doesn't match up. The setting and background information from the old game is retained, but the mechanics are junked or at best used as inspiration for expressing ideas in the new systems terms. PROS This method offers a lot of advantages. It is by far the simplest means of conversion since you really aren't bothering to do an actual conversion. This means it is also the quickest way to convert. Since you're not tweaking around with the new system's mechanics you are also unlikely to run into major rules issues. CONS However, there are some downsides to this method as well. There will be some (or even many) elements of the original game that simply do not translate into the new system without some conversion effort, and thus are left behind. This can have a huge effect on the general "feel" of the setting going forward. In some cases this all works out, with the setting mutating in a fashion that is agreeable to the GM and players, but in others it can cause the people involved to lose interest in the game as the elements that they liked about the original setting are lost. Similarly, the archetypes that were rooted in the old game's mechanics may find themselves eclipsed by new archetypes that stem from the mechanics of the new game, which can also take the setting in new directions. Players whose liking of the old game was largely based upon a fondness for a particular sort of character will definitely be disgruntled if their favored character type fades away or turns out to be disadvantaged in the new system. HOW CAN YOU USE THIS SITE TO DO THIS KIND OF CONVERSION? If this style of conversion is your preference, good news! Much of the content in the conversion resources will still be useful to you since they merely demonstrate how to use the HERO System to model concepts from the original game. But, more significantly all of the generic High Fantasy HERO content provided by the site is immediately useful to you as a buffet line / cafeteria style resource for you to cherry pick from.  
So, to be clear, it isn't a big deal to me either way if you are uninterested in using the material, but if you are passing on it due to an incorrect preconception of what the material is then you might be excluding some resources that could help you.
 
 
I provided some content for "campaign paradigms" for fantasy...the root document is here:
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/campaignParadigms.aspx
 
One of the types I covered was "Super Fantasy", aka "Capes & Plate". The main takeaway is mechanically it's the same as running a Champions game, the only difference is setting and SFX.
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/Paradigms/SuperFantasy.aspx
 
 
I wrote up a document for GM's coming from a class & level type of game into the Hero System on differences in how to present opposition to characters in a points based game. It's here:
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/Conversion3eOpposition.aspx
 
The main takeaway I have for you is to stop thinking about "appropriate opposition" or similar "level based encounter" meta considerations. Instead, populate the scenario with things that make sense per internal consistency, and pay attention to action economy, relative combat values, total DC in attacks, and average defenses. 
 
Having said that, Hero System combats tend to take a while. The combat system is very granular and tactically oriented. If you are running 2.5 hour long sessions and expect to have four "encounters" or lets say story beats to put a little distance away from D&D semantics...including at least one combat, then you are going to be challenged to use the Hero System. 
 
You could speed that up by just keeping opposing forces defenses a bit subpar and various GMing techniques, but all in all be aware that a decent Hero System combat between four PC's and evenly matched opponents can easily take 2.5 hours or more all by itself.
 
 
Depends on how "heroic" vs "realistic" you go. If you go whole hog, with all or many of the lethality and injury options toggled on, then yeah the PC's will be in constant danger of getting killed or maimed. If you stick to straight heroic with maybe Hit Locations and Encumbrance turned on, then the PC's are not particularly fragile but can unexpectedly die to a head or vitals shot. Personally, I prefer to run the Hero System at the "cinematic" heroic level, particularly under 6e rules. I'm currently running a face to face heroic urban fantasy campaign, discussed in the open on this forum under the "clubs" section. You can check out the PC's and a lot of the enemies they have faced thus far here if you are interested. Though it is set in a modern setting, it is an urban fantasy and is only superficially different from a fantasy game...imagine swords and bows and chainmail instead of guns and kevlar and its the same thing.

https://www.herogames.com/forums/forum/89-topics/
 

Just to clarify, the fantasy content on my site is not _just_ conversions. In fact, the conversion content is a small fraction of the material. And, even within the area of conversions, there is more than one way to "convert" from one game system to another, including a full reboot...which I talked about in this document:
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/SystemConversionStyles.aspx
 
The "Reboot conversion", which sounds like the approach you are taking, says this:
 
Reboot Conversion Another approach to conversion is to basically leave the old system behind and just use the mechanics of the new game system as is, reinterpreting characters in the new system and simply ignoring anything from the old game that doesn't match up. The setting and background information from the old game is retained, but the mechanics are junked or at best used as inspiration for expressing ideas in the new systems terms. PROS This method offers a lot of advantages. It is by far the simplest means of conversion since you really aren't bothering to do an actual conversion. This means it is also the quickest way to convert. Since you're not tweaking around with the new system's mechanics you are also unlikely to run into major rules issues. CONS However, there are some downsides to this method as well. There will be some (or even many) elements of the original game that simply do not translate into the new system without some conversion effort, and thus are left behind. This can have a huge effect on the general "feel" of the setting going forward. In some cases this all works out, with the setting mutating in a fashion that is agreeable to the GM and players, but in others it can cause the people involved to lose interest in the game as the elements that they liked about the original setting are lost. Similarly, the archetypes that were rooted in the old game's mechanics may find themselves eclipsed by new archetypes that stem from the mechanics of the new game, which can also take the setting in new directions. Players whose liking of the old game was largely based upon a fondness for a particular sort of character will definitely be disgruntled if their favored character type fades away or turns out to be disadvantaged in the new system. HOW CAN YOU USE THIS SITE TO DO THIS KIND OF CONVERSION? If this style of conversion is your preference, good news! Much of the content in the conversion resources will still be useful to you since they merely demonstrate how to use the HERO System to model concepts from the original game. But, more significantly all of the generic High Fantasy HERO content provided by the site is immediately useful to you as a buffet line / cafeteria style resource for you to cherry pick from.  
So, to be clear, it isn't a big deal to me either way if you are uninterested in using the material, but if you are passing on it due to an incorrect preconception of what the material is then you might be excluding some resources that could help you.
 
 
I provided some content for "campaign paradigms" for fantasy...the root document is here:
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/campaignParadigms.aspx
 
One of the types I covered was "Super Fantasy", aka "Capes & Plate". The main takeaway is mechanically it's the same as running a Champions game, the only difference is setting and SFX.
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/Paradigms/SuperFantasy.aspx
 
 
I wrote up a document for GM's coming from a class & level type of game into the Hero System on differences in how to present opposition to characters in a points based game. It's here:
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/Conversion3eOpposition.aspx
 
The main takeaway I have for you is to stop thinking about "appropriate opposition" or similar "level based encounter" meta considerations. Instead, populate the scenario with things that make sense per internal consistency, and pay attention to action economy, relative combat values, total DC in attacks, and average defenses. 
 
Having said that, Hero System combats tend to take a while. The combat system is very granular and tactically oriented. If you are running 2.5 hour long sessions and expect to have four "encounters" or lets say story beats to put a little distance away from D&D semantics...including at least one combat, then you are going to be challenged to use the Hero System. 
 
You could speed that up by just keeping opposing forces defenses a bit subpar and various GMing techniques, but all in all be aware that a decent Hero System combat between four PC's and evenly matched opponents can easily take 2.5 hours or more all by itself.
 
 
Depends on how "heroic" vs "realistic" you go. If you go whole hog, with all or many of the lethality and injury options toggled on, then yeah the PC's will be in constant danger of getting killed or maimed. If you stick to straight heroic with maybe Hit Locations and Encumbrance turned on, then the PC's are not particularly fragile but can unexpectedly die to a head or vitals shot. Personally, I prefer to run the Hero System at the "cinematic" heroic level, particularly under 6e rules. I'm currently running a face to face heroic urban fantasy campaign, discussed in the open on this forum under the "clubs" section. You can check out the PC's and a lot of the enemies they have faced thus far here if you are interested. Though it is set in a modern setting, it is an urban fantasy and is only superficially different from a fantasy game...imagine swords and bows and chainmail instead of guns and kevlar and its the same thing.

https://www.herogames.com/forums/forum/89-topics/
 

Just to clarify, the fantasy content on my site is not _just_ conversions. In fact, the conversion content is a small fraction of the material. And, even within the area of conversions, there is more than one way to "convert" from one game system to another, including a full reboot...which I talked about in this document:
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/SystemConversionStyles.aspx
 
The "Reboot conversion", which sounds like the approach you are taking, says this:
 
Reboot Conversion Another approach to conversion is to basically leave the old system behind and just use the mechanics of the new game system as is, reinterpreting characters in the new system and simply ignoring anything from the old game that doesn't match up. The setting and background information from the old game is retained, but the mechanics are junked or at best used as inspiration for expressing ideas in the new systems terms. PROS This method offers a lot of advantages. It is by far the simplest means of conversion since you really aren't bothering to do an actual conversion. This means it is also the quickest way to convert. Since you're not tweaking around with the new system's mechanics you are also unlikely to run into major rules issues. CONS However, there are some downsides to this method as well. There will be some (or even many) elements of the original game that simply do not translate into the new system without some conversion effort, and thus are left behind. This can have a huge effect on the general "feel" of the setting going forward. In some cases this all works out, with the setting mutating in a fashion that is agreeable to the GM and players, but in others it can cause the people involved to lose interest in the game as the elements that they liked about the original setting are lost. Similarly, the archetypes that were rooted in the old game's mechanics may find themselves eclipsed by new archetypes that stem from the mechanics of the new game, which can also take the setting in new directions. Players whose liking of the old game was largely based upon a fondness for a particular sort of character will definitely be disgruntled if their favored character type fades away or turns out to be disadvantaged in the new system. HOW CAN YOU USE THIS SITE TO DO THIS KIND OF CONVERSION? If this style of conversion is your preference, good news! Much of the content in the conversion resources will still be useful to you since they merely demonstrate how to use the HERO System to model concepts from the original game. But, more significantly all of the generic High Fantasy HERO content provided by the site is immediately useful to you as a buffet line / cafeteria style resource for you to cherry pick from.  
So, to be clear, it isn't a big deal to me either way if you are uninterested in using the material, but if you are passing on it due to an incorrect preconception of what the material is then you might be excluding some resources that could help you.
 
 
I provided some content for "campaign paradigms" for fantasy...the root document is here:
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/campaignParadigms.aspx
 
One of the types I covered was "Super Fantasy", aka "Capes & Plate". The main takeaway is mechanically it's the same as running a Champions game, the only difference is setting and SFX.
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/HighFantasyHERO/Paradigms/SuperFantasy.aspx
 
 
I wrote up a document for GM's coming from a class & level type of game into the Hero System on differences in how to present opposition to characters in a points based game. It's here:
 
http://www.killershrike.com/FantasyHERO/Conversion3e/Conversion3eOpposition.aspx
 
The main takeaway I have for you is to stop thinking about "appropriate opposition" or similar "level based encounter" meta considerations. Instead, populate the scenario with things that make sense per internal consistency, and pay attention to action economy, relative combat values, total DC in attacks, and average defenses. 
 
Having said that, Hero System combats tend to take a while. The combat system is very granular and tactically oriented. If you are running 2.5 hour long sessions and expect to have four "encounters" or lets say story beats to put a little distance away from D&D semantics...including at least one combat, then you are going to be challenged to use the Hero System. 
 
You could speed that up by just keeping opposing forces defenses a bit subpar and various GMing techniques, but all in all be aware that a decent Hero System combat between four PC's and evenly matched opponents can easily take 2.5 hours or more all by itself.
 
 
Depends on how "heroic" vs "realistic" you go. If you go whole hog, with all or many of the lethality and injury options toggled on, then yeah the PC's will be in constant danger of getting killed or maimed. If you stick to straight heroic with maybe Hit Locations and Encumbrance turned on, then the PC's are not particularly fragile but can unexpectedly die to a head or vitals shot. Personally, I prefer to run the Hero System at the "cinematic" heroic level, particularly under 6e rules. I'm currently running a face to face heroic urban fantasy campaign, discussed in the open on this forum under the "clubs" section. You can check out the PC's and a lot of the enemies they have faced thus far here if you are interested. Though it is set in a modern setting, it is an urban fantasy and is only superficially different from a fantasy game...imagine swords and bows and chainmail instead of guns and kevlar and its the same thing.

https://www.herogames.com/forums/forum/89-topics/
 

I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas. See you in January,

No game today then. See you all early next year. Wish you the best.

No, it was rather desultory and ignominious. Drew burned through all of his extreme luck keeping Jack (who started the session with only 3 BODY remaining) alive, and without any remaining to modify the bad guys rolls he got hit and staggered. Without his Combat Luck to save him Drew was then easily ripped apart before he could recover by the trio of tentacled nascent shoggoths played by Steve, Scything, and King Red. Looks like Unconventional Solutions needs a new ops chief.
 
In death, members of Unconventional Solutions have a name...his name was Drew "Reckless seems like a sensible Complication to me" Altman.

 
Later in the evening Killroy had a classic Jason Bourne / Jack Bauer-esque solo adventure, successfully (and rather easily) reclaiming from a drug gang's crack house a mystery loot box of unmentionables stolen from the Societatis ex Monstrum Interfectorum. He even resisted to urge to look in the box, which he had been forbidden from doing by his handler. Having established his trustworthiness and reliability, Killroy has been accepted as a member of the Societatis...secretly of course. Killroy never even pulled a gun; he roughed up and intimidated his way through the gang members. It was pretty epic.

More's the pity. Personally I'd invite him in and try to cajole him into running a session for us.

Why are you buying off the penalty rather than simply buying levels with grab?  To save points?  Seems to me that the cost of being good with grabs is what it would cost you to buy levels with grab...

{shrug} If you aren't concerned about the potential opportunity for game imbalance, let people buy PSL's vs Multiple Attack penalties. Worst case scenario, if the character ends up being too good at killing off multiple targets and is sucking the challenge out of encounters, just add more goons to soak up their attacks. 

Up front, Doc Democracy is correct.
 
I find it convenient to think about PSL's in this way: they can be applied to external situational penalties, not intrinsic penalties. 6e says this on the subject (v1 p84):
A character cannot use OPSLs to increase OCV generally, to increase the damage an attack does, or to increase DCV. He can only use them to reduce or counteract a specific type of negative OCV modifier. A character cannot buy “generic” OPSLs that apply to more than one negative OCV modifier; he must specify which penalty a OPSL applies against when he buys it. Nor can he buy OPSLs to counteract the standard OCV penalty imposed by a Combat Maneuver (such as the -3 OCV for a Grab By), or to counteract the Unfamiliar Weapon penalty (6E2 51). And that checks out against the provided examples...range, hit loc, and throwing penalties are all ambient external modifiers that apply across the board to all characters and attacks by default. On the other hand the -3 OCV penalty for Grab By is intrinsic to the Maneuver, and the Unfamiliar Weapon penalty is intrinsic to the character themselves. 
 
Multiple Attack might initially seem weird because the Maneuver's OCV penalty is variable, dependent on the total number of attacks and thus it might seem more like a situational penalty than something intrinsic. However Multiple Attack is technically a Maneuver and while its OCV penalty is variable in the abstract, once it has been calculated for a specific usage it is no different than the -3 OCV for Grab By. For a similar case of a Maneuver with a variable penalty, see Move Thru.
 
---
 
The distinction between what PSL's can and cannot be applied to does seem arbitrary and unnecessary to me in principle, however from an accounting perspective it does make sense that it should never be possible to buy PSL's to offset a penalty for less cost than paying for an ability that would allow you to not take the penalty in the first place. 
 
The reality is, PSL's could be eliminated entirely from the system, and could be replaced as a limitation taken on Skill levels and Combat Skill Levels..."Only to Offset Penalties". The value of that lim is debatable, but I'll just swag a -1/2 as a placeholder. 
 
 
 
 

{shrug} If you aren't concerned about the potential opportunity for game imbalance, let people buy PSL's vs Multiple Attack penalties. Worst case scenario, if the character ends up being too good at killing off multiple targets and is sucking the challenge out of encounters, just add more goons to soak up their attacks. 

He died as he lived...questionably.

Julian and Julietta
 
A brother and sister Vampire duo of a `bloodline` typified by incredible superhuman strength and durability but also suffering from monstrous looking features when their superhuman abilities are in use. Though far more potent than the average vampire, they are both simple soldiers by intellect and inclination, operating as effective heavies for the area's master vampire.
 
 

I have trust issues with Star Wars now
 

So...I'm not an expert by any means but I do happen to have some actual experience in this area. I grew up in southern Florida on the water, learned to swim before I could walk, and spent a lot of time swimming in my youth. While in the Marines, I easily passed swim qual one (which is the top standard qual level) with no effort at all and was invited to an advanced course. So, take this with a grain of salt, but this is what I remember...
 
It isn't the lack of oxygen that is your initial problem, it's carbon dioxide build up. Most people with a sedentary life style have a surprisingly low tolerance for it and will suffer from this before running out of oxygen. So, if an average non-athletic person with "meh" cardio gets in the water and tries to hold their breath even without swimming...just go under and hold...they might have trouble holding their breath for even a full minute. There is also a psychological aspect...people who haven't made a habit of pushing their body to its limits often think they are capable of less than they are...so our example average breath holder might come up for air before they strictly speaking need to because holding your breath is both uncomfortable and because they are worried they are going to drown...which would tend to push the time lower.
 
But personally I would expect a healthy athletic person with good cardio...a runner, jogger, athlete, etc...to last between a minute and a half to two minutes while swimming underwater, and I would expect an active swimmer who has made a practice of extending their ability to stay under to last longer. 
 
YMMV

No, it was rather desultory and ignominious. Drew burned through all of his extreme luck keeping Jack (who started the session with only 3 BODY remaining) alive, and without any remaining to modify the bad guys rolls he got hit and staggered. Without his Combat Luck to save him Drew was then easily ripped apart before he could recover by the trio of tentacled nascent shoggoths played by Steve, Scything, and King Red. Looks like Unconventional Solutions needs a new ops chief.
 
In death, members of Unconventional Solutions have a name...his name was Drew "Reckless seems like a sensible Complication to me" Altman.

 
Later in the evening Killroy had a classic Jason Bourne / Jack Bauer-esque solo adventure, successfully (and rather easily) reclaiming from a drug gang's crack house a mystery loot box of unmentionables stolen from the Societatis ex Monstrum Interfectorum. He even resisted to urge to look in the box, which he had been forbidden from doing by his handler. Having established his trustworthiness and reliability, Killroy has been accepted as a member of the Societatis...secretly of course. Killroy never even pulled a gun; he roughed up and intimidated his way through the gang members. It was pretty epic.

No, it was rather desultory and ignominious. Drew burned through all of his extreme luck keeping Jack (who started the session with only 3 BODY remaining) alive, and without any remaining to modify the bad guys rolls he got hit and staggered. Without his Combat Luck to save him Drew was then easily ripped apart before he could recover by the trio of tentacled nascent shoggoths played by Steve, Scything, and King Red. Looks like Unconventional Solutions needs a new ops chief.
 
In death, members of Unconventional Solutions have a name...his name was Drew "Reckless seems like a sensible Complication to me" Altman.

 
Later in the evening Killroy had a classic Jason Bourne / Jack Bauer-esque solo adventure, successfully (and rather easily) reclaiming from a drug gang's crack house a mystery loot box of unmentionables stolen from the Societatis ex Monstrum Interfectorum. He even resisted to urge to look in the box, which he had been forbidden from doing by his handler. Having established his trustworthiness and reliability, Killroy has been accepted as a member of the Societatis...secretly of course. Killroy never even pulled a gun; he roughed up and intimidated his way through the gang members. It was pretty epic.

Ok, I'm planning to run the session at 5pm tomorrow 11/16 @ At Ease Games. I'm going to do a push on the main encounter until Murgy is present, so instead we are going to focus on A) Jack & Drew's daring duo escape, B ) Killroy's mysterious Big Solo Adventure, and C) I still have 33 hours to figure out something fun for Beretta and Joey back in Quantico and a plausible reason for Murgy to be unavailable. 
 
Given that the party managed to get split 3 ways, I'll be handing out some NPC sheets to players to play for certain scenes to keep you engaged...for instance during Jack & Drew's escape, the rest of you will have some bad guys to play to complicate their escape, etc. 
 
The goal is simple: even though this will technically be a filler episode due to real life scheduling conflicts, we are going to endeavor to make it so packed with interesting character focusing bits and hijinks that it does not feel like a filler episode. 

One common House Rule I've seen is reducing max STUN by BOD damage.  That means Guppy's STUN caps at 8 instead of 20.  I don't find it any more realistic that 1 BOD of 10 is hale and hearty, but 0 means no recoveries, or some other massive binary (either the whole penalty applies or none does) is imposed.
 
 
Remember that the first "level" of negative STUN is "heavily Stunned" - he's not unconscious and may  not even fall over - he's reeling much like a character Stunned but not KOd would.  If it's not unheroic to slug a Stunned opponent, we're OK here as well - and the target is half DCV and takes double STUN.

I'm okay with running NPCs if there's not really anything for Beretta to do other than recover in a hospital bed, since I get experience even if I'm not playing my main character.
 
I'll do my best to hinder Jack & Drew with shooting skills worthy of a graduate of the illustrious Imperial Stormtrooper Marksmanship Academy.  

Ok, I'm planning to run the session at 5pm tomorrow 11/16 @ At Ease Games. I'm going to do a push on the main encounter until Murgy is present, so instead we are going to focus on A) Jack & Drew's daring duo escape, B ) Killroy's mysterious Big Solo Adventure, and C) I still have 33 hours to figure out something fun for Beretta and Joey back in Quantico and a plausible reason for Murgy to be unavailable. 
 
Given that the party managed to get split 3 ways, I'll be handing out some NPC sheets to players to play for certain scenes to keep you engaged...for instance during Jack & Drew's escape, the rest of you will have some bad guys to play to complicate their escape, etc. 
 
The goal is simple: even though this will technically be a filler episode due to real life scheduling conflicts, we are going to endeavor to make it so packed with interesting character focusing bits and hijinks that it does not feel like a filler episode. 

So...I'm not an expert by any means but I do happen to have some actual experience in this area. I grew up in southern Florida on the water, learned to swim before I could walk, and spent a lot of time swimming in my youth. While in the Marines, I easily passed swim qual one (which is the top standard qual level) with no effort at all and was invited to an advanced course. So, take this with a grain of salt, but this is what I remember...
 
It isn't the lack of oxygen that is your initial problem, it's carbon dioxide build up. Most people with a sedentary life style have a surprisingly low tolerance for it and will suffer from this before running out of oxygen. So, if an average non-athletic person with "meh" cardio gets in the water and tries to hold their breath even without swimming...just go under and hold...they might have trouble holding their breath for even a full minute. There is also a psychological aspect...people who haven't made a habit of pushing their body to its limits often think they are capable of less than they are...so our example average breath holder might come up for air before they strictly speaking need to because holding your breath is both uncomfortable and because they are worried they are going to drown...which would tend to push the time lower.
 
But personally I would expect a healthy athletic person with good cardio...a runner, jogger, athlete, etc...to last between a minute and a half to two minutes while swimming underwater, and I would expect an active swimmer who has made a practice of extending their ability to stay under to last longer. 
 
YMMV