massey

Mike Patton
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Patton
 

 
https://consequenceofsound.net/2014/05/turns-out-mike-patton-and-not-axl-rose-is-the-greatest-singer-of-all-time

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/02/president-trump-being-taken-to-walter-reed-military-medical-center-as-a-precautionary-measure.html
 
Trump is being taken to Walter Reed Medical Center, not that there's anything wrong with him.
 
I expect his press spokesperson to announce, "Trump is the healthiest person ever who is still president."

I want better candidates to vote for. Same as I did in 2016.

All that debate did was confirm to me that while I felt my choices in 2016 were godawful - they were not as bad as my choices in 2020.
 
It's unbelievable how bad that debate was.
 
At one point in the debate I was wishing Trump would just shut up and stop interrupting so much that I mentioned it to my wife.
 
Me:  He's interrupting WAY too much.  Like - this is hard to watch.
Wife:  Joe Biden looks weak.
Me:  That doesn't bother you?!
Wife:  I like that he's taking it to him.
 
Somehow, impossibly, my three-decades-of-voting-Democrat wife is now more conservative than I am. 
I am probably going to join my fellow Vote Giant Meteor 2020 friends and vote Libertarian again.

Well to be fair for Clinton it was merely Tuesday too.

When eight hundred years old you are, look as good, you will not.

But I want to see the suit automatically deploy the step stool every time there is a shot with Cruise and woman in the same pic.

So you watched a movie featuring multiple dimensions in multiple dimensions? 

Watched Doctor Strange again last night.  I'd forgotten how mindblowing the effects were, and I almost wish I'd seen it in 3D in the theater.
 
Such a well written story too.

There is a tribe of Hero gamers who are worried that somebody might get something in the game without paying for it.  These poor lost souls will try to require every possible point expenditure that they can think of.  If they can think of a power that might possibly be related to the one you already have, they will want to see it on the character sheet as well.  This mentality seemed to hit its peak in the Steve Long 5th edition character books.  Unfortunately, all it does is limit the characters that people actually choose to play, by making cooler concepts too expensive to be competitive.
 
The purpose of the Shapeshift power is to let you assume a variety of different forms.  A character with Shapeshift and appropriate levels of Growth can look like a regular guy, a small asian woman, a big dog, a motorcycle, a leather recliner, an elephant, a big monster, etc.  Is your Growth power this versatile?  Probably not.  Do you always change into the same big monster every time you use your power?  Probably so.  If that's the case, in my opinion, you don't need Shapeshift.

There's no balancing mechanism possible to make a bad player equal to a good player.  Nor should there be.  I used to play D&D with a guy named Matt.  Nice guy, but basically a bump on a log.  Matt knew how to roll a D20, but couldn't figure out what Armor Class he hit.  We had been playing together for years.  Matt just liked to be in the group, killing monsters and having fun.  He was never late, and showed up every single game session.  Don't ask Matt to come up with a plan though.  He knew when it was his turn to attack, and he knew what damage dice to roll.  Anything beyond "I hit it with my sword" was a mystery to him though.  Fortunately Matt had some great stats and he seemed to roll really well.  But really there's no way to make a player like Matt as effective as someone who really understands the game and thinks in imaginative ways.  And you wouldn't want to play a game that had such a mechanism.  As nice as Matt was, he was a 100% reactive player.  He never made any suggestions or came up with any ideas.  The simplest of riddles would be an impenetrable enigma to Matt.
 
There's nothing wrong with creative use of powers.  And yes, it's true that the Matts of the world are not going to be as effective as those who push the boundaries of what they can do.  But that's a sacrifice you make for having people of varying skill levels in the game.

There's no balancing mechanism possible to make a bad player equal to a good player.  Nor should there be.  I used to play D&D with a guy named Matt.  Nice guy, but basically a bump on a log.  Matt knew how to roll a D20, but couldn't figure out what Armor Class he hit.  We had been playing together for years.  Matt just liked to be in the group, killing monsters and having fun.  He was never late, and showed up every single game session.  Don't ask Matt to come up with a plan though.  He knew when it was his turn to attack, and he knew what damage dice to roll.  Anything beyond "I hit it with my sword" was a mystery to him though.  Fortunately Matt had some great stats and he seemed to roll really well.  But really there's no way to make a player like Matt as effective as someone who really understands the game and thinks in imaginative ways.  And you wouldn't want to play a game that had such a mechanism.  As nice as Matt was, he was a 100% reactive player.  He never made any suggestions or came up with any ideas.  The simplest of riddles would be an impenetrable enigma to Matt.
 
There's nothing wrong with creative use of powers.  And yes, it's true that the Matts of the world are not going to be as effective as those who push the boundaries of what they can do.  But that's a sacrifice you make for having people of varying skill levels in the game.

I attribute that more to the challenge of using a fixed, formulaic model to convert characters from very different game systems.  I generally prefer to grasp the system, understand that the character in question does pretty low damage, kind of average damage or super-high damage; is easy or hard to hit; is easy or hard to KO; moves really fast or really slow; etc., then translate that into the character I need for my Hero game.
 
A lot of V&V characters do 1d6 or 1d8 damage, or have no significant defenses, or have normal human accuracy and Speed.  That works fine in V&V.  Moving them to Hero with a 3 DC attack, defenses of 5/5 non-resistant or OCV and DCV of 4, and SPD 2 does not work so fine in Hero.  Nor does statting them out with OCV/DCV 37, SPD 15, defenses of 75/75 or 48d6 damage

Oh yes; yes.  I believe he will. 
 
 
 
 
I agree, but have to point out (not to you, obviously, but for the sake of conversation) that there needs to be a concession to playability and "fitting in" with the rest of the characters.  By concept, you stellar core should be completely indestructible.  Now obviously, with enough points, we can achieve a very reasonably facsimile of that.  It is equally obvious, though, that we shouldn't.    I mean, Every combat is going to become "Quick!  Hide behind Star Man!"  or "Why do the bad guys just keep running away from us?"    Wonderful for crime prevention, I suppose, but not a lot of fun (after the amusement novelty wears off, I mean).
 
I went through this for a couple of _decades_: my very first character was a brick, and really enjoyed the role-playing aspect of the game.  Accordingly, the rest of the group kept saying "No!  You have to play Power!  We _love_ that character!"  So even while campaigns changed and everyone else made new characters periodically, I kept getting roped into playing the same brick.  There are only so many places a brick will spend points, logically.  Twenty years-- and let's remember that this was way back-- college years at first, and single men after-- when we could play three nights a week, and run weekend-long marathons.  By the time I _finally_ convinced the GM to let me just kill off the character and start fresh,-- well, I won't bother with what his stats were at the time, but really:  "indestructible"  and "irresistible" were both accurate adjectives.   And truthfully?  I _hated_ it.  During the first campaign, he was fun.  Even the second and third, he was fun, and there was the novelty of the GM letting me run a character that totally outclassed the rest of the party.  Eventually, I was just window dressing:  I wouldn't _do_ anything because it mean no one else would get to do anything (why roll your security systems to trick the keypad when a STR 245 will _probably_ open the door without any real issue).  And no one bothered with worrying about defenses, because they'd just hide behind Martin Power.
 
It wasn't until I finally got to make a new character that everyone understood that it wasn't that one particular character they were in love with:  it was that I could _commit_ to the character via roleplaying, and _become_ a fully-realized character.  _That's_ what they were in love with.....
 

 
 
 
 
I _completely_ agree with you!
 
However, we first have to be honest enough with ourselves to acknowledge something.
 
Something related to this, actually:
 
 
 
And us.
 
This board.
 
Other Players.
 
Other GMs.
 
You know: Us.
 
We derive a lot of fun out of statting things up in the system-- characters, cars, gypsum wallboard, 1/8" thick single-strength plate glass-- you name it; someone at some point has sat down and statted it up.
 
People drop by (here or in person, at your table, at a convention, wherever you might have this conversation:
 
So how do I build X?
 
How many times do you see "you should," "you have to," "you forgot about," etc, etc in those suggestions?
 
Yes; you see a lot of "well you _could_" and "have you tried," but how much "you need to" do you see, followed up by multiple sources of agreement?  How many times have you seen Advantages and Limitations expressed as something that you "need" X or Y in order to model your special effect?
 
What would help, I think, is that we stop pushing them as _necessary_, and instead, after the questioner has his answer-- say "you could probably combine Energy Blast and extra movement into a single attack using Linked or Triggered so that they go off as one"-- and let that person then decide if this power actually _does_ routinely (like every or almost every use) have any special effectiveness of drawbacks _as he sees it working in his head_.
 
If it does, then suggest to him _NOT_ that "you need this" or "that" or you "can't model what you want."  Frankly, if I tell my GM I don't want my power to work under a midnight moon, he'll stick with that whether I take that as a Limitation or not. 
 
We should instead suggest that Limitations are cost-saving mechanics he can apply to a power that he already sees as being limited.   Just because I decide my power is "laser beams" doesn't mean that they will lose drastic amounts of efficiency when I go SCUBA diving.  If I _want_ the power to work that way-- if I have already decided that the power will work that way-- then suggest that there are cost-saving bonuses available to someone who has decided to voluntarily limit the efficiency of his power.  We need to _stop_ saying "Well, lasers don't work nearly as well two hundred feet underwater, so you're going to have to take a limitation to model a proper laser."  We need instead to ask "do you see this power having any drawbacks or can you imagine and circumstances under which it might be less efficient, or even unavailable?"  The work from there.
 
Same thing with Advantages: we should ask "do you see this power being more effective that someone else with the same base power?  How so?"  If that "advantage" is something relatively minor and derived from his special effect, state quite clearly (and as pridefully as possible):  "Oh, that's something you should just be able to do;  the distinction between mechanics and special effects is the strength-- the cornerstone upon which the system was built!"  For example:
 
"Well, he shoot fire, so I thought "hey, he should be able to light cigarettes and lanterns, and maybe dry out his clothes if they get wet or warm up his teammates if they get frozen...?"
 
Instead of saying "No; stop; you're wrong.  I count at _least_ three minor Transformations _and_ a Life Support (versus cold): Usable by Others.  You will have to build and buy those separately--"
 
The response should be more along the lines of "check with your GM, but those all sound pretty minor-- little "spotlight on me" moments that either won't come up a lot or will have very little impact on the game.  Check and see if he thinks you should actually have to pay to give yourself cancer or provide yourself with foul-smelling feeble light.  These are more like side effects of your special effect."
 
if the answer is "well, I want him to shoot like a _column_ of fire!  Like be able to fill up the entire hallway with his flames!"
 
Then we can respond with something like "Okay; that's cool.  You might want to look at Area of Effect as an Advantage to your standard power.  There are options there that will let you do just that."
 
I know the standard answer to my stance on this (I bring this up every few years) some variation of "we don't do that!  We only tell them what they need to make the power they are asking for!"  Sure.  I absolutely accept that we all believe that; really I do.  But when you start telling him what he "needs" based on his special effect before he even decides what advantages and limitations he wants the power to have--- well, that's influential.  People don't ask folks questions when they believe those people have a lesser grasp of the subject than they do.  Even if none of us claims expertise, the fact is these questions are asked because the questioner _considers_ us to be more knowledgeable, better versed, -- _experts_, at least in comparison to them.  (for the record, this is why I _always_ start any answer to a 6e question with "I'm not as familiar with 6e as most folks here" or words to that effect:  I am _not_ as familiar with it, and don't want anyone thinking my suggestions come from a place of intimate knowledge).
 
When we say "need to," "have to," "must," and "should" to someone who considers our opinions better grounded than his own...,    Well, that's _powerful_.  It sticks, and ultimately it influences the way the questioner will view the process _forever_. 
 
So the overbuilding thing?  _We_ started it, ultimately.  Not on purpose (I don't believe), but by letting our exuberance (damn!  I really thought there was an "H" in that!) overwhelm our caution: we get so excited to provide help or provide answers that we don't pay enough attention to _how_ we package that help and express those answers.
 
Even the examples we point to can have influence on a new player.
 
 
CAUTION!  I AM GOING TO _REFERENCE_ A DISCUSSION HERE.  PLEASE, I _IMPLORE_ ANYONE STILL READING, DO _NOT_ MISTAKE THIS WITH AN ATTEMPT TO _REVIST_ THAT DISCUSSION!    From the very blackest parts of my heart, THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING!
 
I believe you were here for the last big blowout discussion of Shape Shift.  You remember my stance on it, I'm sure (let's not revisit it), and I even posted a published write-up-- to my knowledge, the first ever published write up-- of a shape shifting character, written up by one of the co-creators of the game.  It did not influence my stance, but it _did_ reinforce it: when one of the authors does it the same way you do it, you tend to feel like you fell into a sweet understanding of the rules. 
 
Several years later, a different author of a later edition-- thereby, "one of the authors of the game" created an actual shape shifting power.  I can't remember if he published an example of a character other than the example in the text (not a complete character, though    ), but I _promise_ it would look radically different from the one I put up.
 
So which do you show to someone who asks "I'd like to see an example of how to do this"?
 
Remember that what he sees will affect how he does it from that point on-- possibly even more than anything we could say: after all, _this_ example was created by "the guy who wrote the rules."
 
(Sure, we can revert to "well, which edition are you playing," but even then: there is no reason that _both_ methods can't work in any edition, _except_ for that which has influenced how you think about creating something.)
 
 
Anyway, already _way_ longer than I had meant to be, but this problem, above all others, is something I feel does not get enough attention nor enough thought:
 
The problem-- the creeping increase in rules and "must" and "can't"---  it's us.  We are the creators of the problem we are wrestling with.
 
If only we had listened to Pogo all those years ago.....
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
The above I presented as something of an analysis.
 
This I present _entirely_ as opinion:
 
I don't like Power Skill.
 
I protested it before it came out, and I don't use it to this day. 
 
(okay, those are facts, but the opinion is coming, I _swear_ it is!  )
 
I personally feel that Power Skill makes the SFX problem worse:
 
For one, it reinforces  (since it's free now, it's not quite the reinforcement it once was, but the absence of it entirely would solve the problem it presents.  Hunh.  I guess that's actually true with _anything_ that presents a problem, so let's just forget some accidental tritisms, if you will...    ) the idea that there _must_ be a mechanic.
 
The idea that there _must_ be a mechanic reinforces the idea that there _must_ be a cost.  Mechanics cost, right?
 
It _denies_ that even if your special effect absolutely _demands_ a certain thing, there's no chance it will actually happen unless you have the right mechanic.   If my special effect is spraying glue onto my opponents, there is absolutely no chance that I will be able to glue a poster to a wall if didn't buy (or, in the free edition, write on my character sheet) this one mechanic.  
 
I feel that Power Skill reinforces the placing of mechanics _over_ special effects as opposed to complementary to them simply be introducing a mechanic to see if your special effect can be used to do something that just makes sense to _everyone_ at the table:
 
Okay, even though the criminals have boarded the chopper, the boat full of drugs is still sitting out there, waiting to be picked up.  The diesel continues to spill from the holes Tommy Gunn put in the fuel tanks.
"Oh!  I want to destroy the boat so they can't get the drugs!"
From here?
"I want to shoot my fireballs at the spilled diesel to light it on fire!"
Roll to hit
"I hit!"
"I haven't told you--"
"Natural 3, Dude.  I _hit_"
"Okay; you hit it.  Roll your Power Skill."
"What_?"
"Dude, that's an Energy Blast you're using, not a match."
"It's a fireball!  It is literally a large ball composed entirely of fire!  Fire ignites diesel!"
"Well, that doesn't mean that you know how to make your fire land in just the right place to cause ignition, or that you can make the _right kind_ of fire--"
"Wha-- Are you _serious_, Tony?  The right kind of _fire_ to ignite a diesel slick?!"
"Well, it _is_ an energy blast, and setting something on fire would _usually_ require a T-Form, which you don't have--"
"Yeah.  Look, I've got work in the morning.  I think we're good.  I'm gonna scoot on out now...."
"It's only fifteen points per die!"
"Good night, Tony!"
 
 
Sure; I confess it's a super-simple, overly-obvious example.
 
But some of the discussion of SFX versus mechanics on this very board lead me to think it's not a-typical, either.
 
 
In much the same way that we are all, ultimately, responsible for loss of clarity on SFX, I think Power Skill shares some responsibility, too.
 
 
 

Massey pretty much nailed it with his comments on the problems of "Oh good Lord; under some obscure circumstance, you might dig a bit of utility out of that once or twice!  No; not until you buy that, too, because it might someday happen."  That seems to get worse every time HERO fans get together. 
 
Vlad pointed out how they can interact with the mechanics of the game.
 
I would like to offer that they are randomizers of a sort.  They make a power more or less effective in certain situations.  (Yes; this is that "potential utility; you'd better by that, too" stuff, in spite of the fact that this very potential is a baked-in and very interesting point of the game).
 
Some examples:   3d6 RKA
 
"Man, my Six Guns of Justice just aren't making a dent in this steel wall!  The water is going to rise until we drown in here!"
"Wait!  Let's see if my Plasma Blasts could possibly melt a hole large enough to wriggle through (presumably after the water cools it a bit.    )"
 
 
Flight:  Oh no!  I have run out of Endurance Fuel for my rocket backpack!  I sure wish the ground wasn't such a long way away....
My wings.... So tired....   I can't keep flapping....   What's it going to take to glide a circular pattern to the ground?
  GM:  Uhm...  tell you what, make an EGO roll for strength of will every Phase.  If you make it, you can burn two STUN pips in place of your END to just glide down in a circle-- no acrobatics or going somewhere else; just to get safely to the ground.  At this altitude, I think you should get there in...  let's say three Phases....
But what about me and my rocket pack?
Don't sweat it.  You'll be burning lots of Stun as soon as you find the dirt.
 
Resistant Defense:
 
Okay, as you stand there looking off the side of the ship, the merfolk beckon to you.  "Down here!  This is where that strange craft came to rest on the ocean floor!  Come quickly!"  You begin to struggle into your SCUBA gear, checking each other's equipment.  Suddenly, from the deck above you, gunshots!  Okay, Sam, Adventure Man has...  eighteen points of Resistant Defense?
    Right!  He uses his Secret ID's wealth to ensure that all of his Adventure Man gear and clothing-- like this diving suit and the Tuxedo he was wearing a few minutes ago-- are all manufactured from a secret blend of supple composites--
   Okay, I get it.  Cool!  So unless you get hit in the face, you should be okay.  Carl, you also have Resistant Defense, right?
Sure do!  Twenty points worth!
   I didn't see armor on Brute's character sheet-
I'm a lead golem, remember?
Uhmm....  Why are you on this mission, exactly?
 
Conversely:
 
I'm sorry, Sam; Adventure Man's polymer Arrow shirt and khaki jodhpurs aren't much good against the potent radiation leaking from the meteorite.  Even as you feel the warmth touch your skin, you start to feel...  woozy--
"Quick, Adventure Man!  Get behind me!  I'm made of living lead!"
 
 
I will put my traditional plate mail up against your fancy high-tech gadgetry any day, Sir!
I think you'll find my hermetically-sealed computer-controlled powered armor far superior.
My armor will repel an evil-doer's sling stone as easily as does yours, Good Sir!
They are not using stones.  Those are bags of fleas.....
 
 
"I'm nearly done for...  We're taking such a beating...  Who _are_ these guys?!"
I don't know.  Maybe, maybe we can rest here...  just for a minute...
"Wait!  Look!  In that mirror!  I can see one of them....   he's just down that corridor, with his back turned...."
What?!  Sweet!  I want to try to zap him with my laser eyes by bouncing it off his image in the mirror--
"No; wait!  You're laser eyes are only 8D6 normal damage!   Let's try bouncing my AK47 off his reflection in that mirror!  Full auto, Baby....."
 
 
That sort of thing.
 
That's what SFX do.  Weirdly, there is an impressively large portion of the fandom thinks you should pay extra for that once-in-a-great-while _potential_ utility  (I say potential, because even when it's there, the character has to actually think of it).  Compounding that weirdness is that most of these guys fall into a larger chunk of the fandom that thinks lost points are the greatest crime since spilling Cheeze Wiz into a character binder.  And yet.....
"No!  If you want to defend Adventure Man from the radiation of the meteor, you need to buy "Armor, only versus Radiation (or whatever the NND might happen to call for as a defense), Usable by others!  Otherwise, the radiation goes right through you and you both die!"  Okay, fine.  I'll pony up the seven points.
 
 
AND THEY ARE _GONE_!  They are _LOST_!  They will never, ever be used again; they are just trapped there on "Armor, only versus Radiation, Usable by Others.......
 
But this kind of lost forever seems to be okay, with the justification:  You might run into another radiation-based macguffin.  Maybe.  It could happen.  You never know...
 
I'm the freakin' GM; of _course_ I know!  I am the guy who actually decides what they will run into again!   At least, with respect to the characters of my players, and I'm not a jack hole enough to make them pay for the ability to temporarily shelter someone during a retreat by keeping his lead body between the source of the radiation and another character.  Frankly, since the 80s, none of my players have ever had to pay a single point because some aspect of their SFX _might_ be useful once or twice, maybe someday.
 
If you want to look at it from a mechanical point of view, then consider it this way:
 
the SFX are the bloom on flowers.
 
 
Here are four characters:
 
Flight 15"
Energy Blast 12d6
 
 
Flight 15"
Energy Blast 12d6
 
Flight 15"
Energy Blast 12d6
 
Flight 15"
Energy Blast 12d6
 
 
 
 
 
Here are those same characters with Special Effects:
 
Accitiper:
large feathered wings sprout from his back, and he can strike at a distance with his claw-themed Shredarangs.
 
Doc Rocket:
After recovering from his nasty fall, his jet backpack now needs no fuel, and runs on a tiny fusion plant of his own creation.  It generates so much power that he taps that energy to plug in various devices, such as his famous Irradiator Ray Gun
 
WindWalker:
Heir to the shamanic secrets of his great-grandfather, wind walker literally strides across the sky.  His medicine bag is perpetually filled with charms and herbal mixtures that deliver varied and devastating results upon the wicked
 
Flux:
Using her ability to shift her body's physical form into any of a thousand kids of energy, she zigs and zags through the sky like an iridescent pinball, pausing only long enough unleash electromagnetic fury on her opponents.
 
 
 
 
That's the other thing that special effects do. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Holy rabbit holes, Batman!
 
What?
 
These rabbits. They dig holes. All over the yard.
 
Massey kind of nailed this, actually, and you have caught onto the gist of it; a power, in a very real sense, “is” its special effect. When we talk about reason from effect, this is precisely what we mean. If it gives your ego a boost, and I hope it does, when I built my dragon transformer, I did it in the exact same way you did. Bought a bunch of growth, flight, and he can shoot lasers from his mouth (I based him on the “race” of Bahamut from FF VII). When those powers activate as a suite, he turned into a dragon. I bought Striking Appearance: Dragon (OIAID, -1/4) to help his PRE attacks, but that was it. Because Shapeshift would be a waste of points, he’s not a shape shifter. He turns into a dragon. He could have been Godzilla, the Hulk, an orange dude in blue underwear made outta rocks (...the underwear, super chafing). 
 
Your second question is “fire blast?” Correct. You purchase EB and define the special effect at that time. Per 6E1:
 
The special effects of a Power define how it 
works, what it looks like, and any other inci-
dental effects associated with it. Sometimes a 
Power receives minor benefits and drawbacks 
because of its special effects. These minor modi-
fiers don’t change the cost of the Power, but if 
the special effect provides a major benefit, you 
have to pay Character Points for that to buy an 
Advantage (6E1, Chapter Six)
 
So your blast is “fire.” It behaves like fire at no additional cost. Your blast is magic, but the setting says “all magic attacks are inherently armor piercing,” so by saying “this is magic” you also must, per the campaign, purchase Armor Piercing. The excellent 5th Edition Ultimate Energy Projector is both a treasure trove of options and a positive nightmare if you approach with the “poor lost souls” mentality. 

Okay! I think I understand the basic sorta... fundamental weirdness now.

If I want my SFX to do something reliably, I should expect to pay for it. If Big Monster wants a scaly HIde, some spooky Claws, and a loud as all get out Roar, I should snag Resistant Protection, KHA, and a Flash attack.

If I then want to use those claws to carve a message into the ground for people who pass, well, that should be fine without requiring a Transform. Maybe Power Skill if so chosen. If others want to try to track the character via.... I guess scale shedding, I don't need to purchase a negative for Tracking Checks based on shedding. Both of those things make sense given the character, but aren't something I generally am thinking of when I consider the character.
 
Or in other words, Pay for what I expect, ask if it makes sense.

There is a tribe of Hero gamers who are worried that somebody might get something in the game without paying for it.  These poor lost souls will try to require every possible point expenditure that they can think of.  If they can think of a power that might possibly be related to the one you already have, they will want to see it on the character sheet as well.  This mentality seemed to hit its peak in the Steve Long 5th edition character books.  Unfortunately, all it does is limit the characters that people actually choose to play, by making cooler concepts too expensive to be competitive.
 
The purpose of the Shapeshift power is to let you assume a variety of different forms.  A character with Shapeshift and appropriate levels of Growth can look like a regular guy, a small asian woman, a big dog, a motorcycle, a leather recliner, an elephant, a big monster, etc.  Is your Growth power this versatile?  Probably not.  Do you always change into the same big monster every time you use your power?  Probably so.  If that's the case, in my opinion, you don't need Shapeshift.

Jim with Shapeshifting which alters his form: people who see him think to themselves, "Gee, I wonder who this is?"
 
Jim with a power whose special effect alters his shape: people who see him think to themselves, "Gee, Jim is using his superpower today."
 
Jim while wearing a domino mask and using  a power whose special effect alters his shape: people who see him think to themselves, "Gee, who is that masked man?"
 
 

There is a tribe of Hero gamers who are worried that somebody might get something in the game without paying for it.  These poor lost souls will try to require every possible point expenditure that they can think of.  If they can think of a power that might possibly be related to the one you already have, they will want to see it on the character sheet as well.  This mentality seemed to hit its peak in the Steve Long 5th edition character books.  Unfortunately, all it does is limit the characters that people actually choose to play, by making cooler concepts too expensive to be competitive.
 
The purpose of the Shapeshift power is to let you assume a variety of different forms.  A character with Shapeshift and appropriate levels of Growth can look like a regular guy, a small asian woman, a big dog, a motorcycle, a leather recliner, an elephant, a big monster, etc.  Is your Growth power this versatile?  Probably not.  Do you always change into the same big monster every time you use your power?  Probably so.  If that's the case, in my opinion, you don't need Shapeshift.

There is a tribe of Hero gamers who are worried that somebody might get something in the game without paying for it.  These poor lost souls will try to require every possible point expenditure that they can think of.  If they can think of a power that might possibly be related to the one you already have, they will want to see it on the character sheet as well.  This mentality seemed to hit its peak in the Steve Long 5th edition character books.  Unfortunately, all it does is limit the characters that people actually choose to play, by making cooler concepts too expensive to be competitive.
 
The purpose of the Shapeshift power is to let you assume a variety of different forms.  A character with Shapeshift and appropriate levels of Growth can look like a regular guy, a small asian woman, a big dog, a motorcycle, a leather recliner, an elephant, a big monster, etc.  Is your Growth power this versatile?  Probably not.  Do you always change into the same big monster every time you use your power?  Probably so.  If that's the case, in my opinion, you don't need Shapeshift.

I understand it's not the answer you are looking for, but STR is the answer. 
 
How many people can Superman carry?  As many as he can hold, maybe one in each hand and two piggyback. 
 
 
How many people can Giganto carry?  Six fit in the palm of his hand, no problem. 
 
It's a matter of STR and size.  STR because-- well, being able to move staggering weight is why you buy that.  It is limited by how much you can physically grab or hold.   A Trnsformer is pretty big; plenty big enough to cayy at least one person, and the biggee they are, the more they can carry.  Really the only difference between them and a giant human character is that a giant human isn't inclined to carry someone in his lung.   
 
If that's not enough for the feel that you want, then look at how you are designing his "car powers."   the answer may lie there:
 
Are you doing a multiform?  Are you building it as a vehicle?  What are your campaign rules for building vehicles?  How do you determine how many people can fit in a car with your vehicle rules?  What makes the car firm of a giant robot different from any other car in your campaign?  Do those differences affect how people are carried? 
 
I think looking at it that way will help you find an answer that works for you.  While it's nigh-anathema to say on this board, not everything needs a special costs-extra build. 
 

I'd just suggest using a 1D6 Transform to copy it onto some sort of physical device.  We all know how DVD players work.

I did a fight scene breakdown for Captain America a while back, using the scene from Winter Soldier in the elevator.  He ended up having something like a 40 Str and an 8 Speed.