Jhamin

This is key.  I know that adventures don't sell quite as well; About 1 "Taming Tascora" module has sold for every 10 Western Hero books.  I get that.  But without the support stuff like characters and adventures and campaign settings you don't have a game.  GMs need something they can PLAY immediately, not just the setting and the rules.  There's been 2-3 Champions adventures put out on Drive Thru and they are great stuff, but only one official adventure from Hero Games.  We need more: like ten times that many more.  We need to flood the store with adventures so people have lots of options and stuff to DO with Hero games.
 
In putting out my Jolrhos Fantasy Hero setting I've been trying to space out one adventure in between each big book, to build up a body of things a GM can do.  We need more of that.  I mean... until I put out the Lost Castle there were absolute no adventures put out for Fantasy Hero since fourth edition, and even then only one book of adventures.   That's ridiculous for a game company.

[So as not to further derail the RIP Meatloaf topic]
 
Hello, all you Hero old-timers! 😁 😘
 
SCUBA Hero here.  I've not been on the forums much, but want to start spending more time here again.
 
I am still with my long-term gaming group of mumble mumble years.  I've switched jobs and travel quite a bit, so I sometimes cannot attend the sessions, but I do when I can and enjoy it muchly.  The current campaign is golden age; I am playing a speedster named DoubleTime! (the exclamation point is in his name).  I've had a lot of fun running him.
 
Lots of names here I still recognize, and new friends to meet.  So say 'hi' here if you'd like and look for me around on the forums.

It's a meh issue for me. 
Hero is not an RPG. 
It is a system to build a custom RPG.
Every single incarnation from 1st through 6th has had "broken" or "incorrectly costed" something.  
Even the concept of "balanced" RPG is ludicrous. 
 
While some people looks at 6th as having "fixed" issues. 
Other people think that 6th just "broke" many of the central reasons that made Hero good in the first place.  
I'm one of the people that saw 6th as a revision that eliminated many of the core reasons that brought me to Champions (Hero) in the first place while hamfistedly "breaking" it.
 
But I am aware that 6th has it's cult following  
All hail the Great Sixth'thulhu

 
In the end Hero in all it's forms is a game that you do not let anyone "build a PC at home and show up to play".  At least if they are not someone that you have been gaming for years and understand intimately the parameters of the campaign.  
 
Hero cannot be "fixed" or "balanced" by the rules. 
That must be done by each GM as they build their world. 
I am positive that 99% of the posters on this board could build a character that will "break" any campaign if they have free access to the core rulebook and intent.  
 
IMO 6th Edition is every bit as "broken" as 5thR was.  It is just which flavor of "broken" do you prefer. 
 
 

Guys like me and others here.  Every couple weeks another book lands on Drive Thru RPG with npcs, settings, adventures, etc.  More is on the way.

Yep this is what I needed. Thanks.
 
Just looking for a book that had a bit more detail on the school. I snagged a copy of Teen Champions and it seems to have what I was looking for. 👍🏻

Hmmm....
I've never played an RPG at a con that didn't use pre-gens. 
 
I know all of the games I run do.
 
 

Yeah, when I was working on the Island of Dr Destroyer, I pulled up the 6th edition build of the Doc and its like 3 pages of skills.  EVERY science conceivable he has at 18-.  I get that you want to be completist and all that but... really?  Does he really need Molecular Biology and Biology and Virology and Biological Experimenter and Biological Conservation and Biology... you get the idea.  Just... say he's a scientist with Inventor and that's good enough.  How big must Reed Richards' character sheet be?  (or, in the MCU, Tony Stark, super genius expert better than all others in every possible field).

I’ve been pointing this out for awhile now on the boards. Many old timers keep referring to D&D many editions ago and things have changed since then.

The thing with Hero system is that the game has not changed all that much throughout the editions. The majority of the changes were how much things cost and the way powers were purchased.  For the most part the stat blocks are fairly close to when the game first came out other than cost. You can probably take most of the 4th edition source books and use them without really converting them to the new editions.  
 
You could probably take the write up of a villain from a 4th edition Champions source book and use it straight out of the book.  While the cost may be different and you may need to adjust a few things they would be minor compared to what you need to do with any other game system.   Try using a 1st edition AD&D monster is a current edition of D&D or a Pathfinder game.  Most of the game terms have changed and even those that kept the same term were drastically changed.  
 
This is why I kept all my old Hero System source books and often still refer to them.  The Fantasy Hero books for 4th edition had a lot of ideas for spells that can still be used even in 6th edition rules.  Mostly when you convert it is changing the cost and maybe taking advantage of some of the new powers, advantages and limitations.  
 

They are a bit inconsistent on that front.  Or at least its more complex than we usually think of it as being. There was an episode where Teal'c was caught mid-transport and got stuck "in the buffer" and they had a limited time to get him out and couldn't let anyone else use the gate lest they overwrite him.  They made it sound like he had arrived but not materialized and was stuck in the gate ring somehow until they tricked the gate into forming an event horizon without a wormhold behind it to reintegrate him.  So the gates apparently disassemble you, space fold you, then reassemble you.

This isn't how they talked about the gate working anywhere else, but it *was* the main plot of a 5th season episode so it is as canon as it gets.  It also follows the visuals we get when we follow someones POV through the gate so maybe?

As to this one, I actually disagree.  I'd think it should be as timeless as possible, rather than geared for the here and now.  
 

To many of these points, I can only say "When did we conclude that bigotry is rational?"
 
I did like an old Avengers where a cop asked why he should trust the Beast - "is he related to that mutant X-Men Beast?"

If you ask Incels,they are an oppressed group. Any bunch of self-perceived outsiders works.

I find all these "how come other supers aren't painted with the same brush" questions interesting.
 
Let me pose a point about racism/hate that may help here:
 
So, because Marvel / Stan brought in the concept of mutants in 1963 and mutant hate sometime later (becoming a main focus of the titles in the '80s), and used Prof. X and Magneto as allegory for MLK and Malcom X; everyone has said "this doesn't make sense as an allegory for racism, because people can't tell the difference between Cyclops and Spiderman, just by looking at them."
 
So, the problem with this viewpoint, is that most people posting are from the era of the mutants as presented in the comics, and thus are thinking about racism in the context of modern times, where it is primarily ethnicity based, and thus is as simple for idiot racist as looking at the target of their hate; because it's as obvious as the target's skin color, hair, etc.  (Which is why they often can make mistakes, calling a Native American a slur for a Mexican, for instance.)
 
However, think about it in the context of the Civil War in the USA.  A political belief motivated war, having nothing to do with race, religion, or any outside, easily identifiable aspect.  It sometimes led to families hating and killing each other.
 
Between WWI and WWII period of Europe, and the Nazi hate for the Jewish.  It is often impossible to discern the difference between a Jewish person and non-Jew Caucasian of the same nation; especially when you start talking about Russian Jews (among others).  A point Magneto himself has made in both the comics and movies; yet ignored by this whole line of thought.
 
How about Northern Ireland?  Same people in every way, hating and killing each other simple because one was a Catholic and one was Protestant (among other reasons)?  
 
Want a more modern example?  How about the Genocide in Bosnia during the Bosnian War (92-95) - three different sub-cultures from the same area, same ethnicity, in some cases same families.
 
My point here is simple; just because it is not "obvious" that Spiderman is NOT a Mutant, and it is NOT obvious that Wolverine is NOT an altered human, but an altered Mutant, simply by looking at them, doesn't mean people still can't hate one, and not the other.
 
Hate and racism have never been isolated to "white vs. black (or brown)", until recent times.  Many times in history there has been hate against a sub-group with no possible way to simply "seeing" the difference; yet the human capacity to hate, and be aggressive toward any sub-group they wanted, has never been hampered by such simple things as having to be able to tell the difference in an obvious way.
 
So, I would challenge that looking at the "Mutant Problem" through glasses colored by today's ethnicity (color) based hate and not understanding the capacity of human nature to hate and somehow figure out who to hate, without it being obvious, is the true "cop-out".
 

We were gaming online prior to Covid-19 and we used free audio/video services.  Once Covid-19 hit and it became clear that the church I belonged to needed a way to communicate plus communicate with family I purchased a Zoom license. 
 
My biggest issue is how poorly some members of the group handle the technology. 

Here's a completely tangential thought: STR minimum is probably not a well balanced Limitation or arguably a limitation at all: most people start with 10 STR, hardly anyone buys it down, so you are getting a cost break for doing nothing and, if you do, you are getting points back but you are less effective in both melee and now ranged combat, in that a weapon will cost you more. It might actually discourage people from buying STR down to fit character concept, which can't be good.
 
More to the point if you buy Strength up to, say, 15 you are getting the advantage of those 5 points and also buying a bigger discount on a beefier weapon, an extra -1/4, which changes the effective cost of Strength because it is buying more for the points.  By all means we can have a STR minimum based on active points, perhaps, but we shouldn't be discounting weapon cost based on the Strength of the wielder: that's double dipping.

I noticed that paid services seem to have much better audio than free ones.  My theory is that both the audio and video quality is much lower on the free services to both save money and give you a reason to upgrade.
 
When my group started gaming online during Covid we tried all the free services: Google Meet, Zoom (free), Skype, and one more I'm not thinking of.  I kept noticing that the quality of the experience was much worse than the Microsoft Teams and Paid Zoom meetings I was participating in for work during the day.
 
Because I'm a computer guy for a living I actually pay for a bundle of Microsoft products for my own education.  This comes with an Office 365 tenant and I realized that I actually had Teams licenses I wasn't using.  So my Wife and I became licensed Teams users and after setting it up correctly I could invite the rest of the group as guests.  As long as a licensed user starts the meeting we get the better audio and video quality.  Our audio issues almost immediately went away.
 
We also now have a teams channel with it's own Wiki, File Storage, and Chat dedicated to each of our campaigns.  Not really practical for a normal group but it's working pretty well for us.

I think both directors are being reflexively dismissive in lumping all comic book movies together in terms of not being great cinema. For example, as deep character-driven movies go I would put Logan against anything either of them has created. I also find them being rather self-important. Half of Scorsese's body of work revolves around charming but murderous psychopaths living sad pointless lives most of us can't really relate to. One of Scott's most famous movies is a mad slasher film set in space, very skillfully made but ultimately just a thrill ride.

I just watched it a couple days ago and I think people are reaching to try and find something to be upset about. 
The movie wasn't the best one, but I thought it was better than the Dark World, Iron Man 3 and Endgame.
 
As far as his comment about the mandarin and the orange.  I took it as him being sarcastic and scornful toward the entire idea that someone had even tried to impersonate him. 
 
All in all the movie wasn't bad and I enjoyed it.  It isn't Captain America 1, but it wasn't IM3 either.

What do folks think of this?:
 
Son of El Espectro
 
   Val     Char    Cost    Roll           Notes
    15      STR       5       12-            Lift 200.0kg; 3d6 [1]
    15      DEX     10      12-            OCV:  6/DCV:  6
    15      CON      5       12-
    15      INT        5       12-            PER Roll 12-
    18      EGO      8       13-            ECV:  3 - 5
15+10  PRE       5       12- / 14-   PRE Attack:  3d6/5d6
 
     6       OCV     15     
     6       DCV     15     
     3       OMCV  0      
     5       DMCV  6      
     5       SPD      30                        Phases:  3, 5, 8, 10, 12
 
    15      PD          7                         Total:  15 PD (6 rPD)
    15      ED         7                         Total:  15 ED (6 rED)
    10      REC       6
    40      END      4
    12      BODY   2
    40      STUN   10      Total Characteristic Cost:  146
 
Movement:       Running:  16m/32m
                            Leaping:  6m/12m
                            Swimming:  6m/12m
 
Cost   Powers                                                                                    END
           The Mask of El Espectro, all slots OIF (Silver Mask; -½)        
7         1)  Know his Opponents:  Detect Supernatural Creatures 13- (no Sense Group), Sense; OIF (Silver Mask; -½)           0
10      2)  Unbreakable Will:  Mental Defense (15 points total); OIF (Silver Mask; -½)              0
12      3)  El Espectro's Grip:  Affects Desolidified Any form of Desolidification (+½) for up to 35 Active Points of Las Tijeras Del Muerte, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½); Only vs Targets with Souls (-½), OIF (Silver Mask; -½)            0
7         4)  Steely Gaze:  +10 PRE; OIF (Silver Mask; -½)                   
                                                                                                                   
18      Luchador Toughness:  Resistant Protection (6 PD/6 ED)       0
           Lucha Libre
           Maneuver         OCV    DCV    Notes
           Mat Holds
           Maneuver         OCV    DCV    Notes
5         Ankle Lock       +0      +0      Grab One Limb;  40 STR  to hold on; Prone
5         Chin Lock         -1       -1      Grab One Limb;  45 STR  to hold on; Prone
4         El Cangrejo       +1       -1      Grab Two Limbs;  35 STR  to hold on; Prone
3         Step-Over Toll Hold   +1      +0 Grab Two Limbs;  35 STR  to hold on; Prone;You Fall; Roll (PS: Luchador)
5         Las Tijeras Del Muerte +1    +0 Grab Two Limbs;  35 STR  to hold on; Prone
           Pressure Squeezes
           Maneuver         OCV    DCV    Notes
3         Basic Pressure Squeeze +0   +0 9d6 Squeeze; Must Follow Grab; Roll (PS: Luchador)
           Takedowns
           Maneuver         OCV    DCV    Notes
4         Bodyslam          +2      +1      5d6 Strike; Target Falls
4         Slingshot Linebacker  +0      +0 5d6 +v/3 Strike; FMove; You Fall, Target Falls; Turnbuckle
           Escapes
           Maneuver         OCV    DCV    Notes
4         Breakout            +0      +0      40 STR vs. Grabs
8         +2 HTH Damage Class(es)
 
           Perks
5         Manuel Guerrero (Biological son of former El Expectro):  Contact (Good relationship with Contact) 13-
3         Positive Reputation:  Nightmare of Those Who Do Not Dream (A small to medium sized group) 11-, +3/+3d6
 
           Skills
3         Acrobatics 12-
3         Acting 12- (14-)
3         Breakfall 12-
3         Traveler
2         1)  AK: Mexico 12-
1         2)  CK: Horizen City 11-
1         3)  CK: Mexico City 11-
1         4)  CK: St. Louis 11-
3         Climbing 12-
0         Concealment 8-
3         Contortionist 12-
3         Deduction 12-
3         High Society 12- (14-)
0         Language:  Spanish (completely fluent; literate)
4         Language:  English (completely fluent; literate)
0         Paramedics 8-
0         Persuasion 8-
3         Scholar
1         1)  KS: Lucha Libre 11-
1         2)  KS: Magic and the Occult 11-
1         3)  KS: Mezzoamerican History 11-
1         4)  KS: Spanish Literature 11-
1         5)  KS: Supernatural Monsters 11-
0         Shadowing 8-
0         Stealth 8-
 
2         Finisher:  Las Tijeras Del Muerte
2         Signature Move:  Step-Over Toe Hold
2         PS: Luchador 11-
 
Total Powers & Skill Cost:  154
Total Cost:  300
 
300+ Matching Complications
15      Social Limitation:  Luchador Identity (Frequently; Major)
5         Rivalry:  Professional (Higo Craneo LLameante; Rival is As Powerful; Seek to Outdo, Embarrass, or Humiliate Rival; Rival Aware of Rivalry)
15      Hunted:  Mad Scientists/Monsters 11- (As Pow; Harshly Punish)
20      Psychological Complication:  Honorable (Very Common; Strong)
 
Total Complications Points:  300
 
Background/History:  Born to aged parents, Christian Velasco received a deep education in the classics of Mexican literature and History as well as culture, politics, and all the things a worldly man must know.
Christian was a paragon of a boy. Strong, Intelligent, Athletic. He excelled at his studies and was a star at any sport he pursued, but his first love was always wrestling. Encouraged by his Father’s best friend Manuel Guerrero he became a rising star at his local youth league. Christian was returning home to show his Father the belt he had won at a competition when he discovered the family home in flames and strange, freakishly tall figures fleeing the scene.  His Parents nowhere to be found and sitting in the charred remains of the only life he knew… he felt a great calm wash over him silently walked to Manuel Guerrero’s home & put on the Luchador mask he knew Manuel kept hidden in his study.
Christian tracked the strange figures to an abandoned mansion where he rescued his parents and destroyed the sewn-together horrors that had taken them. When he went to return the Luchador mask  Mr. Guerrero was waiting for him.  He explained that the mask had belonged Guerrero’s Father, and Christian had not stolen it, it had called to him. The Mask belonged to Christian now, but he had much to learn to be worthy of the others that had worn it before him. They had much work to do.
 
Personality/Motivation:  Christian Velasco was a studious, serious, dutiful young man. He did his homework, minded his parents, and did not seek a flashy life. When he puts on the Mask that all fades. When wearing the mask he thinks of himself as “Son of El Espectro”, a bold & dynamic hero who does what must be done to keep everyone safe and see that evil is punished.  While wearing the Mask he feels free to be bigger, bolder, and more decisive. Some thought is strange that he asked to be called by his new name while wearing the mask, but most found “Son of El Expectro” too charming to resist.
His parents have asked Manuel about the change, but he assures them that it is healthy for a boy to find himself at this age, and if he chooses to be a Luchador what of it? Manuels father made a healthy living in the ring for decades.
 
Christian hasn't noticed that in his head he has started calling himself "El Espectro" instead of "Christian".  If someone pointed it out, it probably wouldn't bother him.
 
 
Quote:  "You revel in the Evil your evil, spreading mysery behind you, but Hell-spawned power is nothing in the face of a true Luchador!"
 
Powers/Tactics:  Since gaining the mask and with months of intense tutelage from Mr. Guerrero Son of El Espectro’s Lucha Libre has grown in Leaps and Bounds. Not only has his skill increased, but he has gained 3 inches in height and 60 lbs of muscle on his already athletic frame!  He can already defeat most adult Luchadors but Manuel Guerrero insists he is not yet ready to turn pro.  His knowledge of Lucha Libre is expansive but does not yet match his predecessors.  Mr Guerrero insists his time is coming and takes pains to show him all he will need to know.
 
Son of El Espectro has also had several encounters with the Supernatural and once crossed paths with a woman claiming to be the daughter of the infamous Dr. Frankenstein (although she was way too young to be the daughter of a 18th century man). 
 
He knows that he learns what he learns not only to reign over the Lucha Libre ring, but also to use this manly power to punish the forces of the underworld.  When he comes into his full maturity, with Strength and Intellect to match, the Son of El Espectro will be a great enemy of all those who would perpetrate evil upon the world.
 
 
Campaign Use:  I will be introducing Son of El Espectro as a "legacy" character who comes to his name not by blood or by influence but by his worthy heart.  Mr. Guerrero, The biological son of the last El Espectro, was too materialistic and too in love with his father's glamorous image to truely be worthy of his mask.  He has truely learned his lesson but was too old to take on the mask himself and is now honestly humbled to see a heart as pure as Christian's.  He knows Christian will be as great an El Espectro as Salvaje or Guerrero's own father Pepe.  Mr. Guerrero teaches him everything he knows about Lucha Libre, the occult, and the world.  While others might find it odd that Christian is increasingly thinking of himself as "El Espectro" Manuel finds it perfectly normal.  His father was El Expectro and Christian is becoming him now as well.
 
I'm running a Ravenswood Academy game & a prominent NPC is the 2nd child of Black Mask X.  She feels somewhat resentful that her brother is being trained as Black Mask XII and has a deep rivalry with him.  In actuality her Mother (Black Mask X) and Godmother (Black Mask XI) are in agreement that while her skills aren't in doubt her ego gets her to make bad choices and are trying to put her in an environment (Ravenswood) where she will need to learn some humility.  I intend to use Son of El Espectro as another example of how to deal with a legacy: Thinking of it as a gift and a responsibility rather than an inheritance someone is owed.

I *knew* I recognized El Espectro from somewhere!!  Thanks.  Even better, that El Expectro is the son of the original Golden Age El Expectro so my intention of giving them a 21st century descendent is indeed appropriate.
 
Now, how to translate him into a full champions Universe incarnation?  Thinking out loud, It looks like in the Champions Universe El Expectro was active in the 50s and 60s which means his power level as written probably is appropriate for the Era.  On the other hand he apparently defeated Stalker, likely by wrestling him, so an inheritor of the title needs the goods to be able to hang with modern heroes.
 
Lucha Libre is on a lower power level than Supers, but I suspect only because of the budget of the movies it is based on.  A MCU El Espectro for example could likely give Captain America a run for his money... so figuring out how to give the modern one that ability without just making him a 60 STR brick is the challenge.  This is complicated by me needing him to be a teen hero.  So he shouldn't be as strong or as skilled as an adult, but should still plow through thugs.
 
His Luche Libre writeup makes it clear his Mask is a powerful artifact that gives him godlike power in the lands of the Dead.  In the Earth realm it lets him detect the supernatural.  All the rest of his ability is just pure physical skill and machismo.
I think his inheritor needs to be a skilled Luchador (or what's the point?) but with a Str in the teens (so he can come into his muscles as he grows).  The Detect Supernatural is a given, but should we also let him have fun stuff like Affects Desolid on his Str (to wrestle Spooks) or a characteristics boost in the presence of the divine (to reflect the mask making sure its wearer "keeps up" with foreign gods like Hercules?)  Or do overt things like that take it too far away from El Espectro's origins?
No matter what, he needs to be able to keep up with modern Aztek mummies and Frankensteins.. who likely have better stats in the Champions U than they do in Lucha Libre Hero.
 
Thoughts?

I saw Eternals today.  Given the clunky nature of the comic book source material, IMHO this is the best adaption that could have been make.  It takes the source material seriously and never plays it for camp.  The actors are all very good, though given the large cast some characters get bet fleshed out than other.  There is humor but never at inappropriate times.  The stakes are huge both for the world and the characters personally and they give them the the weight that they are due.
 
Viewers who go in looking for another MCU action comedy are going to be disappointed.  But viewers who like comic books and don't feel a need to wink wink nudge nudge the story may enjoy Eternals.

Mechanically you have a couple obvious choices: Drain or Dispel.  Either one will interfere in a given power.
 
Dispel is all or nothing.  The grenade will either shut down powers or do nothing.  On the other hand it is cheap so you will have lots of dice to roll.
Drain will always work, lowering the active point value of whatever it affects but the down side is that it costs 3x as much for a die of Drain as a die of Dispel.
 
By default you have to pick something specific to be affected, but If you want it to affect all magic, both powers let you take "expanded effect" to affect multiple things with one attack.  Affecting "all magic", assuming magic is common in your game is a +4(!) advantage... so something that can shut down a PC level wizard is going to be hundreds of active points.  If it only affects active spells or just Evocations or somesuch you can probably get it down to +2.  Still expensive, but maybe doable without going into GM fiat land.
 
As for the area of effect?  Well, good old AofE is always great, but the way you describe it I would think Explosion would be appropriate.  The target gets the full force and the effect falls off rapidly as you get away from the center of the blast.

The more points a character has to work with, the more likely they are to buy alternate, special, and unusual attacks.  That multipower turns into a page instead of a few abilities, or even a power pool.  So defenses become less effective.  Would your tank buy an armor piercing punch with 350 points?  Probably not unless that's their specific character design.  But if you have 600 points to work with, why not buy that AVLD against "dive for cover" attack?  And on defenses, why not get that "impenetrable" even though nobody buys penetration?

Perhaps you're missing DCV, defensive Combat Maneuvers, CSL, Movement, and other ways someone can avoid getting hit. It's not all about tanking damage.
 
Also, your numbers are missing a few issues. Rampart's Strength is 100, so his Haymaker will do 24d6, not 28. A Haymaker is also only useful against targets that are immobile or immobilized, otherwise it's easy to avoid.
 
Defender's armor can generate a 12 rPD/12 rED Force Wall in addition to its other Defenses. He also has a 50 pt. VPP for other systems he can install in his armor, including more DEF if he anticipates needing it.
 
Balancing characters' offensive and defensive capabilities is a little more complicated than just comparing the numbers.