Spidey88

Re: CHAMPIONS OF THE NORTH -- What Would You Like To See? I don't have too much to say other than: 1) as a Canadian, I'm really looking forward to this book, in whatever form it ends up being. From the sound of things, we're in good hands! 2) I'd like to chime in with the others that have said "debunk the stereotypes and myths", especially speech patterns! I don't know anyone who ends sentences with "eh", says "aboot", etc. I trust it wouldn't take more than a paragraph or two - it's just a pet peeve of mine. Anyway - back to your regularly scheduled thread...

Re: Morlocks in our Future! Well, creating strong jaws requires a significant metabolic investment, and processed food is supposedly much less healthy - so I could imagine some selective pressure to reduce chin size when less energy might be available... Still, it seems pretty darn unlikely. Imagine what the world would be like, though - nothing but Frank Burns, everywhere you look!

Re: WWYCD: <Your character>: The Clone Saga!! While Phidippus would consider that unlikely, he's just paranoid enough to consider the possibility - all the more reason to keep the "good" version close by!

Re: Help with power idea - inertia thingies I'm happy you could get some use out of my ideas, Black Rose. Cheers!

Re: WWYCD: <Your character>: The Clone Saga!! Phidippus is a very obvious Spider-Man homage (I wear my loyalties on my sleeve, I'm afraid), so the whole clone situation would be extremely groan-inducing... Getting past that, he'd take the clone to a secure, publicly-known location to give him a once over (eg. Homestead or Dr. Silverback's lab). Suspecting subliminal commands implanted in the clone, cybernetic bugging devices, or something similar, he'd want to be as thorough as possible ensuring the clone didn't have any ulterior motive. Terse at first, Phidippus would be willing to accept that whatever is going on isn't the clone's fault, and try and keep his very serious fears to himself - fears of what Telios is up to, primarily. There's also be a lot of apprehension as to the status of his own identity, of course - but seeing as how four months has gone by since the blackout incident, he'd assume it was unlikely he was the copy, under the assumption Telios would have sprung the trap by now if he was the clone. Phidippus would then try to figure out what the clone knew. Location of base, secret I.D.'s of teammates, etc. with as little prompting as possible to ensure honest answers, and some false question designed to test his knowledge (names of people he doesn't know, etc.). After the Q&A period, he'd probably be stuck with what to do. Bringing him back to the (secret) base would probably be the only thing he'd settle for in the end - leaving him at Homestead or Dr. Silverback's lab would be too risky (in his eyes, anyway, since he wouldn't settle for anything less than his own surveillance on this particular individual). His own base, secret though it may be, would not exactly be a high-profile target - but he might suspect Telios was on VIPER's payroll (they've got a serious bone to pick with him, and he's never even met Telios). The moment of truth would be the hidden entrance. Hopefully the (apparent) clone would lead the way, assauging some fears Phidippus might have about a nasty plot. With any luck, the old Danger Sense would start to buzz if bringing cloney here was a bad idea... After that, he'd sit down with his own equipment to run tests on who was who for a while. He'd be fairly certain he was the real deal, but he'd try to give the clone the benefit of the doubt - he is a real person, after all. That first night would be very nerve-wracking, but thankfully he only needs an hour's sleep a night, and his primary teammate also has Danger Sense. The real sticky business would be: what to do with cloney? If his motives are on the up-and-up, he'd be a huge asset to crimefighting. What to do next would depend on cloney. The obvious options would be these: 1) develop a new super ID and costume for cloney (George?)- at least different enough to tell Phidippus and cloney apart. Hmmm... Perhaps some sort of tracers in the costumes, only detectable by our danger senses are in order...Maybe set cloney up in another city if tensions between them are high. 2) keep the knowledge of cloney relatively secret, and use that to their advantage - it could seem like he was in two places at once. If anyone else (eg. VIPER) ever tried to kidnap Phidippus, they probably wouldn't think to do it twice, leaving a spare to bust the other out! All of this assumes cloney doesn't have any specific input of his own that differs greatly. I'd have to assume that cloney thinks in similar ways, but Phidippus wouldn't be the sort to railroad him (save for the initail security measures) if he had different ideas. He'd be free to make his own choices. If cloney was adamant he was the original, Phidippus would try to take it in stride and remain objective.

Re: CHAR: Batman Overkill? Well, to say "your Batman's too intimidating" would be like saying "your Superman is too strong". Both are at the top of their fields in those departments, so it's harder to set a benchmark - it's all relative to the other characters. eg. I can create a good writeup of Spider-Man with a DEX somewhere between 30 (the bare minimum, as far as I'm concerned) and 45-ish. Where the actual value falls within that range depends entirely on who he'll be compared against - Spider-Man should be without peer in terms of agility and acrobatic prowess in my book (though others may come very close, such as Nightcrawler). If precedents are set, it sort of becomes a matter of one-upmanship. eg. NC has 33 DEX, so I'll give Spidey 35; NC has 42 DEX, I'll give Spidey 43 or 44; ad nauseum. Much higher, and it seems excessive - and as I said, 30 seems to be the absolute minimum and still feel acceptable to me. So, I've got a fair range to play with. Working in a vacuum, it's harder to quantify (I'd settle for a middle-of-the-road 38 for this example) - so, kudos to you for entering the great unknown! So, in a nutshell - overkill? Nah. Set the bar where you like. Any other character will be lagging behind in that category anyway - it's just a question of scale.

Re: CHAR: Batman I wholeheartedly agree there, Enforcer84. Even if he did "let the bat out" as Bruce Wayne for some reason, I still think it'd make a bit of difference not having the costume. Of course, you could chalk that up to Reputation (OIHID), and not Presence. (WHO LET THE BATS OUT? Who, who who-who...)

Re: CHAR: Batman My two cents: Personally, I'm fine with his PRE how it is. In my mind, if there's any (well-known) DC hero that can justify a ridiculous PRE other than Supes, it's Bats. Superman just tends to use his a little more passively! Sure, a 20 PRE might be technically sufficient for the job (with interaction skill rolls, favorable circumstances, etc.), but I feel like Batman should be near the top of the pack. Just part of his schtick, IMHO. Sure, The Flash could lurk in alleys and sneak up on muggers undetected - but it just wouldn't be the same, would it? For the nay-sayers: maybe reduce the base PRE for Bruce Wayne a bit, with +10 OIHID? "Holy @#$%! It's the b-b-b-bat!"

Re: Order of the Stick Ah, yes! I thought I saw that somewhere! I was surprised when I didn't see a post here about it...

Re: Order of the Stick Did you guys catch the strip from last week with Firestorm? That moment during the card game killed me...

Re: Comic Books VS. Graphic Novels/Collections I have to say, Teflon Billy, I often wish I could read Ultimate Spider-Man (as well as many other books) in TPB format (I'm too much of a Spidey fanboy in general to wait, and buy the issues each month) - Bendis seems to pace stories veeeerrrrrrryyyy sssslllloooowwwwlllyyy. Then again, it may not be his fault a single conversation can take up half a stinkin' issue. On that note, is it just me, or has pacing slowed down across the board comic-wise? Am I just getting more impatient as I get older, or is everything really taking that much longer to resolve? Perhaps I'm used to more overall action? Maybe I'm just getting a little too jaded with the medium... Anyway, back on topic: I have to say, as an absolutely voracious reader, I really do like TPB's. Last week, I read the first six volumes of "Fables" in about three hours (while watching TV). Very satisfying to get all that at once! Ditto for "Invincible" a few weeks before. The problem is, in addition to being too fast a reader for my own good sometimes, I'm also kind of a cheapskate when it comes to TPBs. I tend not to buy many, as most of the comics I'm interested in, I buy issue by issue - despite the fact that it's less cost-effective that way. I plan on expanding my classic Spidey collection via TPBs, though - those Essentials are probably a little cheaper than getting Amazing Spider-Man #21-40 individually. Of course, if I finish the time machine, I could save a bundle... Wha - oh! Ummm, forget you read that. Yeah. Nothing to see here, move along...

Re: Help with power idea - inertia thingies I'll take a stab at this, but I'm pretty much just thinking of things on the fly here... Hmmm... Perhaps a few inches of flight, with no turn mode, and some sort of very flexible trigger, that could be triggered mid-jump? Alternatively, just flight with no turn mode and RSR: acrobatics. If just plain old "moving through thin air" is all you effectively want, flight seems best to me. The no turn mode represents his ability to throw out any number of "pivot points" at will, and the RSR: acrobatics represents needing to be athletic to utilize them properly - maybe he could lose his grip, miss a step, etc. and would fit the special effect of needing to jump off of and swing around the pivot points. If you can create a limited number of pivot points in any give turn, that might make things more difficult: a -1/4 disad to represent the occasional inconveniences that might arise might be in order... Trying to figure out some way to use superleap to do the same seems needlessly complicated - unless, of course, this character couldn't generate significant momentum once aloft, just redirect it. I would assume he could, with the stepping stones comment - so to me, flight feels right. Just because he's actually jumping to move through the air doesn't necessarily mean superleap would be the best way to model it (just a special effect). I guess, though, the ultimate in simplicity would be Superleap, usable as flight - can anyone tell me if that'd be legal or not? It somehow leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but I don't know if I'm just being paranoid... Running, usable as flight might explain some uses of it too, for that matter. For other effects, perhaps some martial maneuvers, limited desolidification, or extra DCV is in order; at least for the defensive applications I can think of. For example, martial throw or passing throw could perhaps cover using this ability as leverage towards flinging foes around? Bonus to OCV with all maneuvers incorporating the Fmove element, to simulate a general "surprise move" bonus provided by the rapid direction changes? Desolidification (only to protect, no AOE attacks) to represent turning on a dime to evade attacks - or missile deflection (special effect of dodging) for the same? Movement skill levels seem like a must for this sort of character - if multiple movement modes are called for to cover all the uses of the pivot points, this might save some points (powergaming and practicality are often the same thing) that might otherwise be spent on the "no turn mode" enhancement on various powers. Hope that provides a little food for thought, if not a definitive answer!

Re: Classic WWYCD: Socks To Be You... This SOOOO sounds like an unpublished issue of Ambush Bug...

Re: Hooligan_X and Proditor Present: I'm interested, but like the Templar, participating necessitates finding a camera I can get decent mini pictures with.

Re: Help with Slick from the Ultimates I don't have a lot of experience with running the Ultimates, but I always assumed I'd run them as such: Slick will attempt combo entagles/change eviro to slipperiness on whoever seems fastest or hardest to hit. Such characters (speedsters and martial artists) will most likely try to get out of the way (aborting to dive for cover or flying dodge), and this will hopefully be made more difficult by the change enviro. If the entangle doesn't work, then they've already aborted to an action, and will be unable to avoid a follow-up entangle from Binder. Cyclone will focus on dealing with whoever gets too close for comfort, ideally keeping them at a distance; Blackstar takes on anyone who looks especially able to resist an entangle or cold cocks the squishy quick guys who got entangled and can't get away (the speedster gettiing punched by a guy with 75 STR will produce some serious twisted faces); Radium works on weakening the defenses of everyone, starting with the guy everyone starts pounding on first if he seems like he can take a good beating - he'll work on someone else if said enemy seems notably squishy, or uses NND rad. blast III on someone with otherwise unassailable defenses; Thunderbolt blasts or punches whoever is the easiest target or whoever presents the most fearsome offense. He's a loose cannon, so I'd avoid serious teamwork with him. In a nutshell, my strategy is "focus on entagling as many heroes as is practically possible, then focus on pounding them as brutally as possible." Ideally, singling out one person at a time to do this to and massing as many attacks as possible against him, to really put him down instead of just whittling each other down round by round; but remaining open to opportunities; and most importantly - cover your butt and your teammates' butts unless the potential for damage dealt greatly outweighs the damage you or your teammate will recieve in return. Glaring weaknesses: mentalists. Anyone who looks capable of EGO attacks or mind control gets a Move-through from Slick (if he can muster up the cajones for it), followed by blasts from Radium and T-bolt. If Slick goes down, I'd keep Binder back away from the front lines, firing AOE entangles to try and keep as many heroes on the defensive as possible. Not much different, really - but it's important the leader with the glue-gun stays up. Blackstar is his bodyguard - anyone after Binder has to go through him, if Blackstar doesn't have anyone else to pound on. If all else fails, run away! Practicality is an Ultimates motto, AFAIK. On that note, Slick's great at that! He also really seems like he's designed to be a martial artist's or speedster's nightmare. AOE entangles, reducing DEX in a huge area, and a ludicrous STR against grapples. Keep that in mind! As I've said, I haven't really used them properly yet - but that's be what I'd try to do.

Re: WWYCD: A Bomb for Two Cities Phidippus has a pretty good skill roll with both demolitions and biology, as well as a classic Silver-Age outlook - so despite any risk to himself, he'd be likely to stay to the bitter end, figuring that few others could get to the bomb in time anyway (that would be better at the job). His extra arms and eyes allow him to perform tasks of manual dexerity at one step down the time scale - coupled with his Danger sense, this would hopefully give him the edge to circumvent booby traps. If his own (further) mutation is inevitable, though, he'd just try and roll with it. Since he is apparently cut off communication-wise, the local bomb is his first priority - but any spare concentration he has would then be focused on getting in contact with someone in New York about bomb two. He's wicked fast in combat terms, but no massive NC multiplier or megascale movement, so getting to NY in time is not an option all the way from Millenium City. If bomb one is simple to defuse (ie. taking little time), and the booby trap is inevitable, and communication attemtps with NY are either taken care of or a total exercise in futility, he'd try and rig his comlink to act as a recording device for a couple of short messages - one for his closest friends (saying how he'd want them to go on and live well, and a brief description of the qualities he admires in them), and one for the public (thanking them for their support, and trying to be as inspirational as possible, especially for the kiddies). Essentially an exercise in vanity, as he wouldn't feel like he's left much of a legacy (so much work left to do, so many wrongs unrighted, etc.). The mutation may not be fatal, it may not be crippling, it may even be curable or beneficial - but he's not the type of guy to take chances. If he survives more or less intact, he hauls a** back to base, hops in the medbay and starts running tests/working on a cure for any negative mutations before the other shoe drops. If communication is possible after the bomb threat and he has no idea what the mutations were caused by, he tells his teammates to clear out of the base in case he's contagious, and take any important personal stuff with them. At this point, Ashley (no super-name yet) is still dead broke and likely the only one home, so it shouldn't take him long to get lost! And for the love of Jeebus, he'll spend those 4 saved character points on finally getting Dr. Silverback as a contact! (Justified by his background) If he can't help, no one probably can!

Re: What is Munchkin? I'd say something similar. I am, on many accounts, a powergamer. I will always try to create the most efficient character I can pointswise - depending on the build, that may mean very different things. I'm very mathematically inclined, so I tend to look at character creation itself as something of an interesting/challenging excercise unto itself. I'll look at a character afterwards and say to myself - "Cool! Look what I managed to do with X many points and not feel like a cheater!" At the same time, I try not to step on anyone else's toes, and try not to hog too much of the spotlight in a game - which can be very hard, considering I'm much more assertive than many of my roleplayer friends. I usually end up being team leader by default, And I try to keep everyone involved when I do as best I can. If I were to cross the line towards munchkinism, I'd say I would have to do one or most of these things: 1) Carry my love of point management to the point that I am looking to make the most powerful character possible, to the point of breaking the laws of good taste and fair play. Eg. creating five different EC's with weak premises to save points. 2) In said quest to achieve power, I'd totally overrun at least one other character's niche/shtick, and be a total attention hog. 3) Said power trip would be characterized by a constant desire to bend the rules to my own benefit. As a counterpoint, some munchkins aren't particularly greedy, and are reasonable people, but still manage to be groan-inducing. So, in 100 words or less: Munchkin: A player who, by any means necessary, attempts to accquire power and prestige; and in doing so, will stop at nothing. Munchkins will often ignore inconvenient rules, hog attention and in-game rewards, and often have little regard for other player's needs. Munchkinism is relative to the other players as well - actions that may feel perfectly reasonable in one game may be totally "over the line" in another. The stereotypical munchkin is also characterized by a lack of taste (subjective, as well) and distaste for the socila aspects of gaming. Powergamers are similar in some ways, in that they place great importance on the acquisition of power for its own sake.

Re: WWYCD: Earth: Battleground Zero Phidippus: Evacuate civilians at top speed. Assuming noncombatants are clear, multiple grapple-line disarms (with the capability to do as many as 6 at once, and a high enough OCV with it that some should work on the first go), followed by the same tactic on the soldiers themselves. 45 STR, 36 DEX, 10 SPD, clinging, extra limbs and several inches of limited stretching (via the grapple lines) should hopefully take a few down quickly enough via martial throws/grabs to get them to flee pretty quick. If the combination of unconciousness and the grapple lines stuck to them is enough to keep them from teleporting away, then some quick removal of the gadget responsible for the teleporting is in order, followed by some (supervised) questioning by some of his more (ahem) persuasive teammates...

Re: Why should I buy Champions? Even if you never buy the game (heaven forbid ), I think I speak for everyone here when I say "feel free to keep posting and asking questions." That's what these forums are for, after all! Cheers!

Re: Parasitic hive mind villain. I agree - just anticipating the actions of some of my more impulsive friends...

Re: Why should I buy Champions? At the risk of putting everyone to sleep, here's a few more specific answers to your questions: I can make a character in 15 minutes if it's a relatively simple build like a super-strong, super-tough guy with a powerful, but limited suite of abilities. A complicated character, like say, a super-mage with a zillion little spells or a metamorph with many forms and a malleable body that can be utilized in unusual ways might take as long as three hours if I want to get really picky. Generally, I tend not to put that much effort into a run-of-the-mill npc or villain - I'd say a half an hour to an hour might be a good average for a fully fleshed-out character. Books I feel you need: Hero System, 5th Edition - If this is all you can get, no worries, It's got all you actually need to play. As mentioned, Sidekick is a good "light" version of the game if you want to save some money on the initial buy and start a little simpler. Books I feel would make your life much simpler if you were to buy the above: Conquerors, Killers, and Crooks - a book chock full of premade supervillains (the book is about an inch thich, so you get a lot to play with, of all sorts of power levels). You might never need to make your own villains with this book. To top it off, each bad guy has three plot threads to get the action started. If you only get one other book, I'd make it this one. Hero System Combat Handbook - everything you'll need to know about fighting. Very little here that's not in the main book, actually; but it's a lot simpler to find what you need in the middle of a fight, and the extra stuff included is great - all the combat maneuvers in one place and how to use them, and unusual things like the "fastball special". UNTIL Superpowers Database - if you shudder at the thought of creating guys from scratch, this book gives you a whole list of powers already made up for your convenience. I honestly never bothered to buy it (yet), but it looks like it'd be invaluable to a newbie (I've been making HERO characters since 1989, just rarely had the chance to play - so it wasn't high on my list). Champions - now a genre book, and not the standalone game of yesteryear. Still, even without all the advice on running different styles of superhero games, it's be worth the dough for the superhero generator I mentioned before. I'm no stranger to the superhero genre, let me tell you - but the book was still plenty useful to me, and continues to be. Villainy Amok - a great book that gives a huge amount of advice on how to run typical comic-book type scenarios as bank robberies and alien invasions in all sorts of permutations. I own both "Champions Battlegrounds" and "Sharper Than a Serpent's Tooth" - they're both adventure modules, and they're both pretty darn good. Very flexible for different power levels, party loadout, and gaming style. If you're not opposed to prepublished modules, these should give you many sessions of fun. In the last 4 or 5 months, I've bought something like 20 of the 5th edition books, and they've all felt like a good buy. The quality of all of them is top-notch, I must say. Any other reccommendations would have to depend on your tastes! There's still plenty of books I'd like to get, too - DOJ has been cranking out a lot of stuff, and so far it's all gold! Incidentally, the difference between the Champions you played in '96 and the HERO system now is small enough that any books you had then will still jive (with a couple minor tweaks here and there) with the current edition. I've got 15-year old books I still use frequently. Oog - I hope this is useful, and not just sycophantic rambling!

Re: Why should I buy Champions? I'm a rookie compared to many here, but as a guy who's used many different systems, I'd like to give my two cents: The Hero System, IMHO, is easily my favorite system for high-flying, four color superhero roleplaying. For me, it does the best job of replicating the feel of a standard comic book. Nothing else out there I've played has the same amount of options for making a character - you can find a way to make pretty much any character concept (though you still have to worry about how many points said character will cost - you can't make Superman with 50 points!). Another generic system, GURPS, comes close, but tends towards more inherent "realism"; that is, it's harder to get the feel of a comic book out of it. Things are inherently very deadly at the default level (though that can be mucked with, in GURPS' defence). Also, GURPS has a somewhat more static list of abilities and powers that are more difficult to tinker with for flavour and effect - HERO is much more of a set of abilities and powers you can build from the ground up (much more "open-source"). Combat can move slowly at times, but I don't think it's really any big jump over say, the D20 system - things are just resolved in much greater detail than your standard RPG. As others have said, things can be as simple or as detailed as you want them to be. You want to stand toe-to-toe with the baddy and just trade punches? Perfectly do-able. You want to have your super-strong buddy toss you at the foe for a stonger punch on your part, while your other buddy tangles up the foe's legs so you're more likely to take him down? That's do-able too. Even with all potential combat options available to the players, it goes pretty smoothly once everyone is really familiar with the system. If anything, people don't seem used to really having to think in an RPG fight IMHO, and that is the molasses factor at first. On the other hand, I've never really felt comfortable using HERO for very low-powered games. There just doesn't seem to be quite enough granularity at lower attribute levels to satisfy me. eg. There is no functional difference between a STR 13 and STR 17, as far as I know - and that covers about half the spread of values between "average villager" (STR 10) and "Olympic weightlifter" (STR 20). (I still prefer GURPS for low-powered games, meself.)Many others do use the game at low power levels and love it, though - so I think I am probably in the minority. There's still a million ways to make your character unique, anyway. Ten characters can have exactly the same attributes and still be very different. In a nutshell: nowhere will you find more options for character creation, and despite the vast array of powers and abilities available, things tend to run very smoothly. There's lots and lots of published villains, so this doesn't have to be a nightmare for a GM. All the books are full of plot seeds, and there are some great modules available that account for a lot of different play styles and decisions; so despite the detail involved, it's quite GM-friendly in that regard too - you should never be completely stuck for ideas. Potential problems with the system (again, IMHO): open character creation can potentially lead to min-maxed demi-gods (you'll probably want to set at least some loose standards on maximum damage and defense values) - be familiar with your PC's before the poop hits the fan! If you want to make a lot of your own villains, it can be very rewarding and fun in its own right, but character creation (when starting from scratch, and not using the handy-dandy superhero generator in the Champions genre book) is usually rather time consuming. Expect players to take a lot of time making their PC's, especially if they are new to the system. Read the book a few times to get familiar with everything before you use it, or things may get confusing mighty quick. Really, I don't take issue with these problems as I love the details and crunchy bits to no end, and I'm very quick with math. That's another thing - HERO has a rep for being very math-intensive. It is in character creation, but nothing more complicated that adding, subtracting, multiplying, or dividing. Lots of it, to be sure - but very simple, and fades into the background when said characters are done. Hope that's not too long-winded!

Re: Parasitic hive mind villain. Almost forgot - for the leech thing, the altered diet of its hosts (eg. anything that doesn't require chewing, which might damage the leech) could be a vague tipoff that something's amiss. "Wait - we're in a fancy restaurant, and that wierdo only ordered a milkshake and jello?" "KAPOW!"

Re: Parasitic hive mind villain. A less exotic approach might be to use a realtively ordinary leech body as your parasite. One point in "LS: Human mouth" and you've got a little critter that's very difficult to detect. Put them, say, under a lip and that's relatively easy to remove too. The EGO drain Highwayman mentioned should work pretty good. Coupled with some Mind Control, you could fine tune the remaining willpower vs. commands - I would assume (but don't know for sure offhand) that completely draining EGO to zero would mean anyone could make commands.

Re: Firewing vs yo Momma I'd give the physical battle to Firewing, but only at the cost of his own sanity. My mom has the ability to circumvent logic!