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1 hour ago, unclevlad said:

It's always debatable, but Green Lantern...?  The power ring's not a focus, it's SFX.  Makes a sizable difference in the costing if you take that out...well over 100 points.  You also assigned a -2 to the yellow vulnerability?  -1/4, maybe -1/2.  Yeah, it does nothing against something yellow, but that doesn't represent a near-complete loss of functionality *generally*...which is what the limitation represents.

 

But you did do a nice job in showing how crazy-broad the ring is...all the utility powers.

Every character is subject to a GM's interpretation, but I used the DC Heroes (Third Edition by Mayfair Games) to create the adaptation. Under that system a Green Lantern's Power Ring is listed under equipment, just like Batman's utility belt, so it's safe to say that it's a Focus and not SFX. I've also collected Green Lantern comics and related titles on and off for a dozen or so years (e.g. Justice League since Green Lantern was a member), and have seen what happens when the ring is de-powered, stolen, etc. or even used by someone else.

Here's the second wave for DC Heroes:

More to follow in the coming days.

The first wave of DC characters have been posted with Hero Designer files. They are here:

I have several DC, Marvel, and other comic universe character write-ups that I previously used at game conventions for players to select and use for the session. Some may be interested in downloading for themselves.

Do I post them here or in the downloads section?

Previously, I ran Champions at the two major game conventions here in the Omaha, NE, metro area, NukeCon held in the fall and PretzCon held in the spring for the past three or four years. Turnout has been consistently good at both venues. Most players have had previous experience with the Hero System in some form or another, but I've also had some brand new players sample it and enjoy the RPG scenarios.

It's good to hear that the idea of using rough art drafts and unfinished works was dropped. As one of the backers commented on the Kickstarter forum, the raw, unfinished art was not what they were told they were paying for when they supported the project.

On 1/17/2020 at 1:12 PM, Pattern Ghost said:

Has there been any word on when this is going up on the Hero store?

The latest update here and on the Kickstarter forum are that the goal is a January 2020 publication for the backers but there's no mention of when it would be available for purchase at the Hero store. The update describes that the graphic layout is still being worked on and that they are using raw, unfinished art in the process as chapter headers.

For "What happened to HERO?", here is one person's observation based on personal experience starting with Champions 3rd Edition, followed by 4th through 6th along with New Millennium and some Champions II books read along the way with a lot of discussion with fellow players at game stores and the conventions over the span of several years:

At a minimum, there is a disconnect between the game design writers and the fans that purchase and play the games. Most of the fans I spoke to at conventions stopped playing Champions sometime around 4th edition because they were turned off by how rules heavy 5th Edition was even though there was Hero Sidekick. The publication of 6th Edition products and the excess amount of rules seems to reinforce that dissonance between game designers and customers, even though there was Hero Basic. To echo a sentiment already mentioned in this forum, "Hero System stopped reading a like a game to play and was more like a reference to read but not necessarily use." The textbook styled formatting of the published 6th Edition rules didn't help market the product either at brick and mortar game stores compared to other published superhero games.

Graphic design of products appear to be getting lower and lower in quality.  The cover art to Champions Complete conveys the superhero genre, but the interior art quality varied. Compared to the impressive art of the Champions 5th Edition source book, there is a significant downgrade. The cover art to Fantasy Hero Complete was just terrible overall, especially when compared to the cover on the Fantasy Hero 6th Edition source book. Similarly, the cover art of Champions Now offered as a preview is disappointing. While definitely a step-up from something like Fantasy Hero Complete, does the character featured as the centerpiece portray the superhero genre? Maybe, along the lines of Scarlet Witch or Doctor Strange, but does it have the impact in clearly conveying the message that, "this is a superhero game" like the covers of 4th, 5th, and 6th Edition game books? Not really. The recent announcement that Champions Now is using raw, unfinished art and its justification can be interpreted as a cop-out in failing to deliver a quality product. Again, there's a disconnect between the game designers and fans.

Champions Now. This is still confusing. It was presented as a Kickstarter project intended to generate new interest from new players in Champions and perhaps reconnect with players who enjoyed previous editions, but a perception that emerged is that Champions Now is an exercise in self-indulgent nostalgia by an independent game designer that the fans paid for via Kickstarter. The lack of promotion for Champions Now, it being over six months late in publication, and now use of raw, unfinished art seems to reinforce that negative perception. Given that the focus is promoting Hall of Champions and supporting it with quality products, am puzzled by the mixed messages concerning Champions Now.

Granted, I am conveying a lot of what has already been said in various forums, but just wanted to add another fan's observations gathered over the years to this recurring question.

1 hour ago, grandmastergm said:

Do any of you guys have some interesting villains that you'd like to see powered up?

I didn't have the game support materials for it to develop to the desired fidelity, but one of the ideas we kicked around many years ago was that a tactical mastermind like Dr. Doom or the villain Destro from G.I. Joe was controlling multiple Kaiju like the Smog monster, King Ghidorah, Gigan, etc. as his high-powered muscle through some powerful technological artifact. The idea was from the classic monster movie Destroy All Monsters but instead the mastermind was Dr. Doom, Destro, or maybe even Lex Luthor or Brainiac, and not the alien Mysterians or Xiliens. 

Another idea was that Black Adam from DC Comics gets amped up to where he could challenge Superman directly and has power over Egyptian god avatars. I think I got the idea from the Egyptian god cards from the Yu-Gi-Oh cartoon series involving Obelisk the Tormentor, Slifer the Sky Dragon, and the Winged Dragon of Ra.

Finally, we once danced around the idea of Transformers' Starscream or Masters of the Universe's Skeletor stealing or stumbling upon celestial artifacts to become powerful enough to challenge Superman-level heroes and potentially defeat them. Given how narcissistic and annoying Starscream was portrayed as a character (along with being a bad shot), he seemed like the perfect fit for a villain to become epic level and then wreak total havoc against heroes and his fellow Decepticons since he would finally "win" in overthrowing Megatron. 😉

Other villains to draw inspiration from are Onslaught, which would be merging Professor X's mental powers and making them more offensive-oriented with Magneto's powers over magnetism; Cthulhu or some other type of Lovecraftian-inspired deity; Unicron from Transformers: The Movie which has a standard write-up in the Hero Bestiary (Fifth and Sixth Edition) as the archetypal "Death Star-like" battle station that can modified to transform into a gargantuan robot; and assorted Kaiju ("strange beast" in Japanese) such as King Ghidorah, Mothra, Mechagodzilla, etc. that are running amok on the planet. The Kaiju have a write-up in the Hero Bestiary (Fifth and Sixth Edition) that can be modified with a power upgrade to challenge epic level superheroes.

For inspiration, you could draw from Superman as depicted in DC Injustice where he has no problem using lethal force to impose his will. Similarly, you could adapt from the Plutonian in the miniseries Irredeemable where the world's greatest hero goes insane and rogue as a result. The Plutonian is arguably more powerful than Superman since he has comparable power levels based on his psionic powers but without the weakness to Kryptonite and magic.

Here's another fan-favorite from a previous event I hosted: AC Comics' Stardust. 😉

Stardust.pdf

Here's a Third Edition writeup of a fan-favorite during a Champions event I hosted during a game convention in 2016: Ms. Victory from AC Comics' FemForce.

MsVictory.pdf

Here's my version of Superman for Third Edition. While a 725-point character build seems extremely high, it doesn't come close to 1,000+ point builds I've seen over the years developed by other players for Superman (am thinking they were replicating the Silver Age version who was virtually god-like).

The simpler format and approach will make introducing Champions to new players at the next demo or convention this upcoming spring significantly easier than in years past. 😀

Superman.pdf

After reviewing the challenges I had with introducing Champions (5th and 6th Edition) with brand new players and the excessive amount of rules, I looked back at the 3rd Edition which was the version I first started with decades ago. In addition to the nostalgia, I really enjoyed the simple game design and approach. After revising some old 5th/6th Edition characters to 3rd Edition, I found myself enjoying the Hero System again.

Attached is one of the characters, DC Comics' Huntress. The format is similar to how characters are depicted in the game book.

Let the Third Edition Renaissance continue! 😀

Huntress.pdf

On 11/3/2019 at 7:02 PM, Sketchpad said:

 

Part of the issue with that is that many gaming stores (at least in my experience) believe Champions/Hero to be dead. The three shops I have locally do not acknowledge it's existence, nor are they willing to stock it because "nobody plays it". HoC may make some difference, but only if the products are visibility-friendly and draw people in. In my experience, blocks of text do not do that. 

Based on my own experience at game stores across different cities in two different states within the past five years or so, am inclined to also support that observation. The Champions and Hero System related materials have been typically kept in the used game book section to be sold at a reduced rate. When asked to order a Champions or Hero System product, the game store cannot order it from any of its distributors. Champions and/or Hero System books have either been print or download on demand or ordered via eBay or Amazon through a book or game vendor clearing its old inventory. 

I guess that's why I've been gunshy of running Champions at game conventions in recent years or at my local game store because if the players get interested and want their own set of game materials, I have to refer them elsewhere and not my local game stores that I support. They cannot order it from the store we're playing in. By contrast, other superhero RPG demos that I previously ran have gone so well (e.g. Icons) that the players went out and bought their own copy of the rules as a reference and to start up their own campaign when they return to their home state or area after the event. 

In addition to the simplified 5th Edition character sheet template, I also adapted Champions: The New Millennium format that uses the Hero System statistics instead of the Fuzion system. I think it came out well and looks less compressed than the other, but I'll let you determine for yourself.

If you like it, please let me know and I'll post it in the downloads areas as well. 😉

Supergirl.pdf

The latest Champions Now update on Kickstarter states that the first draft still needs to be reviewed and surveyed by backers before publication, with the tagline, "It shouldn't be much longer now." Given the projected completion date was June 2019, it's safe to say that the fans who supported the Kickstarter effort have been extremely patient.

It's curious that there hasn't been much promotion by Hero Games beyond the initial announcement and follow-on justification of the project when there was some fan pushback. One cannot help but start to believe the criticism that Champions Now is an exercise in self-indulgence by an external game designer that the fans paid for via Kickstarter. 😒

Thanks for the kind feedback. The template is uploaded in the Downloads section, Hero System 5th Edition for your use.

4 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

I'm curious to see what you've done. I need to wait until I'm at an actual computer to look at the PDFs.

 

I think you've made some great suggestions. I've translated several of the characters from BBB to 3rd edition. My plan (or at least 12% of a plan) is to use the 3rd Ed character sheet--with the character picture--and print the origin, personality, quote, etc. on the back. One page, front and back, that's it.

Thanks! Attached is an example what I will most likely use at the next game convention if I run Champions, since I will likely use 5th Edition which most of the participants are familiar with and is my favorite in terms of resources and art design.

The character sheet I've developed is based off of player feedback that I mentioned earlier and some additional factors. Please also keep in mind that I only run Champions once or twice a year at the game conventions here in Omaha, NE, so I provide pre-generated characters that I adapted from the DC and Marvel Universe for players to use when they show up.

The factors are the following:

1) The players, especially new ones, liked having the statistics spelled out (Strength, Dexterity, and so on).

2) The players preferred having the character sheet organized into distinct sections: Characteristics, Health (STUN, BODY, END), Offense that listed OCV, DCV, ECV, SPD, Phases, and all of the attacks that character had in terms of powers, weapons, and martial art skills, Defense that listed Physical, Energy, Mental, Power, and Flash Defense ratings, then Powers & Equipment (Offensive powers are already listed in the previous section and are not listed twice), Skills, Talents, & Perks, then finally Disadvantages and points in Characters, Powers & Skills, Disadvantages, and total points so that the players know that 364-point Cyclops is going to need backup when he's going up against 900+ point Apocalypse. This also made it really easy for them to find the information and decide what action to take for their respective characters.

3) The players were not interested in things like "Powers and Tactics," and "Quotes." If I was running an ongoing campaign, then the player may want to develop those areas as flavor text to really give his or her character some depth. Also, the background information was minimal in general, a short paragraph or two at most. For example, players who wanted to play Spider-Man at my table were not interested in reading every minute detail of his backstory beyond that Peter Parker became a crimefighter stemming from guilt due to his role in the death of his beloved Uncle Ben who taught him, "With great power comes great responsibility."

The character template is in Microsoft Word that I input manually using the information from the Hero Designer PDF after I complete a character writeup. If it's something you'd like to use, please let me know and I'll coordinate emailing a blank template to you.

Cyclops.pdf

7 hours ago, Pariah said:

 

I'm hoping to use this strategy to introduce some high school students to the game next school year.

I wish you the best of luck. As a comparison about simplifying and reverse engineering, attached are the Third, Fourth, and Fifth Edition versions of Superman that I wrote up for some recent game events. Some observations and lessons learned from the past several conventions I've participated in are the following areas that influenced how I designed the character sheet:

1) Players were disinterested with seeing every single point and related rules-listing on the character sheet. They like seeing the overall point total to get an idea of how powerful the character they're using is, but that's about it. The players understood that while Batman's utility belt can get stolen but Iron Man's suit can't if they're being worn, so listing things like OAF Arrangement, OIF, etc. was not necessary.

2) I had to create a character sheet of pre-generated characters that displayed the important information and easy to read. The four to five page character sheet or small font PDF produced by Hero Designer with the minutia details was a major turnoff for visiting players.

3) New players were unconcerned about things like height/weight and related data featured in the Fifth Edition character sheet since they were familiar with the pre-generated character they used from cartoons, comics, and/or movies about the character (e.g. Iron Man, Wolverine, etc.). They just wanted to know what the statistics meant, what powers they had and at what level they were.

Superman3E.pdf Superman4E.pdf Superman5E.pdf

On 1/3/2019 at 6:43 PM, Pariah said:

For the first time in literally decades, I've been looking back at the Third Edition of Champions. It's the version I learned to play on, and there are times when i miss the simplicity--especially as I contemplate teaching new people to play. So I've begun building characters again. And I've got to tell you, here's something really cool about building a character with pencil and paper. I've had to relearn how a few things work, like END (Holy cow! How did my heroes ever stay awake for more than a Turn?!) and proper Elemental Controls, but I'm now able to create a new character in ~30 minutes, start to finish. It's been a lot of fun.

I first started playing Champions with Third Edition in the late 1980s. I received it as a gift and can relate to the nostalgia, happy memories, and simplicity associated with the system, especially when the game rules and mechanics associated with Fifth and Sixth Edition can reach the point of being a major turnoff. Like you, I've been looking back at it and was happy when the pdf version became available since the original book I had has since been retired.

I have also reversed engineered some of my Fifth and Sixth Edition characters to Third or Fourth Edition, which has made it easier to introduce to brand new players who have never played this genre or type of game before at conventions.

10 hours ago, Old Man said:

 It's mind boggling to me that there is no Marvel superhero RPG that's giving D&D a run for its money.  Take a property that is enjoying unbelievable popularity right now and pair it with the one game system that can handle it.

 

Old Man brought up a lot of valid points and recommendations about the Hero System and Champions in general. Like him, I'm equally puzzled that an RPG system has not emerged to the forefront yet in the superhero genre in the same way D&D has for the fantasy genre in the past 20 years or so since the first X-Men film revitalized mainstream interest.

Marvel Comics did attempt to capitalize in the RPG market in recent years, though. First, there was the release of Marvel Universe Roleplaying Game in 2003 by Q.E.D. Games that used a diceless game mechanic. The game production run quickly expired, most likely due to disappointing sales. Heck, I didn't even know of its existence until I came across a copy in the RPG section of the a used book store within past year or two even though I visited game stores regularly. Later, there was the release of Marvel Heroic Roleplaying Basic Game in 2012 by Margaret Weis Productions that also met a similarly abrupt fate.

Given that Marvel FASERIP originally published by TSR from the 1980s remains in a highly positive light by superhero RPG fans, am surprised that Marvel hasn't worked a new licensing agreement with Wizards of the Coast (WoTC) to relaunch it with an updated version of this old school classic. Since WoTC bought up TSR and its properties, am thinking that they retain the rights to the FASERIP game system.

Green Ronin Publishing had licensing agreement with DC Comics to release DC Adventures, which was the DC Universe using the Mutants & Masterminds game system. To this day I'm still puzzled why its production run ended so quickly (barely a couple of years) because the products were first-rate quality. Even now, the remaining books are highly sought after by collectors. My best guess would be that the money involved with the licensing was too high to what Green Ronin Publishing was willing to keep paying when the agreement was coming up for renewal.

Right now, the superhero genre is enjoying a huge spike in popularity across mainstream audiences through film and television. The question remains: which, if any, of the superhero games out there can capitalize the way D&D has in the fantasy genre?

Is there an estimated publication date for Champions Now? I contacted Ron Edwards who was spearheading the project and he informed me that his portion of the project (e.g. game design, mechanics, and play-testing) was complete.

Am really hoping that the final print-on-demand product will be something first-rate like Mighty Protectors or Prowlers & Paragons; I will definitely save up and spend the extra $$$ for a hardcover edition. 😀

Some other factors for your consideration on the enduring appeal of D&D:

- The published D&D products always seemed to be first-rate quality during its period of release. Even with first edition that came out in the 1970s, the hardcover and softcover books were excellent quality. The cover and interior art featured some of the best known artists in the genre (e.g. Erol Otus, Larry Elmore). D&D products always seemed more readily available to review and purchase also. My first reading of a D&D book was not in a game or toy store, but in the book section of a department store (Horne's) in downtown Pittsburgh. D&D books could also be readily found in toy stores and book stores (e.g. Toys R Us, B. Dalton, Waldenbooks when they existed in the marketplace). By contrast, I wasn't aware of the superhero RPG until the mid-1980s when my local game store featured Villains & Vigilantes. Champions wasn't even featured at that store, and my brother came across it by word-of-mouth and went to a store in the next town over to purchase Champions (Third Edition) as a gift for me.

- D&D was able to reach a much wider audience that other companies. It had the 1980s cartoon, a comic book series published by DC, and was supported by various fantasy novel series (e.g. Dragonlance) that generated interest in the product. Years later, many of this is considered nostalgia for players to re-introduce to their kids. Yes, the D&D theatrical and direct-to-video films were awful, but at this point I think it's considered camp where, "they're so bad that it's actually good to laugh at." Also, being mentioned periodically in popular culture (e.g. Big Bang Theory) certainly helped as free-advertising.

- The popularity of the fantasy genre in mainstream film and television and computer games most likely kept genre interest going to enable players/DMs to bring in new players. The popularity of Warcraft, Warlords Battlecry, Heroes of Might & Magic, Lord of the Rings trilogy, Willow, and so on likely made it easier to recruit new players who may have been gun-shy at first but those mediums probably made D&D seem more appealing. Although they've been around a long time, superhero movies didn't seem to really pick up as a recurring theme until the first X-Men film came out (outside of the first two Superman films with Christopher Reeve and Batman films with Michael Keaton).

Could Champions, or the superhero genre in general, be as popular and enduring in the RPG world as D&D? It's hard to say, even in retrospect. Champions had a comic series for a while published by Eclipse Comics, but it was a small, independent company and distribution was limited. For me, Champions issues were hard to come by at the comic store. Having the aforementioned factors certainly could have helped Hero Games expand to a wider audience and generate/sustain interest. DC Heroes (Mayfair Games) and Marvel FASERIP (TSR) faded away when licensing agreements ended by the early 1990s, which definitely hindered things since both had mainstream connections, especially since later RPGs were poorly designed and/or supported and ended soon after release (e.g. DC Universe by West End Games). Not sure why DC Adventures that used the Mutants & Masterminds game engine ended so quickly in terms of licensing agreements and publishing between Green Ronin and DC Comics since the products were first rate and is a highly playable system. 

Given the popularity of superhero movies and television, it's certainly possible and there are certainly superhero games that are out there trying to tap into that market (e.g. Mutants & Masterminds, ICONS, Champions, and Mighty Protectors).

If the product is high quality like the Champions 6th Edition sourcebook was and marketed right, Champions Now could help revitalize the brand along a similar way Mighty Protectors (Villains & Vigilantes) and Prowlers & Paragons for its current fan base and branch outward. If it's a disappointment like Fantasy Hero Complete was in terms of graphic design, then a great opportunity was probably missed.

Anyway, just some food for thought towards the discussion.