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My first experience with Champions was Third Edition (it was a gift I received) in the late 1980s and have collected/played various Hero System games ever since. Most recently, I have been using Champions Complete and Fantasy Hero Complete at local game events along with converting previous campaign materials to 6th Edition. Although 6th Edition has its strengths over previous versions, I still find myself drawn to those earlier editions for various reasons (e.g. graphic design, style/tone of writing), especially when introducing Champions to brand new players who would be turned off by the rules-heavy nature of 5th and 6th Edition.

Have other people in this forum experienced this also?

Some speedster names I've created and/or adapted:

Slipstream

Lightspeed

Captain Speed

Interceptor

Quickfire

7 hours ago, JmOz said:

 

Strange trivia, when I pointed up the JLA a number of years ago the character who was the most powerful was Aquaman...Just felt like letting you know

The power level of any character really is up to the GM, just as how powerful that character is portrayed in the comics is up to the writer. For example, I once came across a fan's Champions write-up for the Grant Morrison version of Batman and it was somewhere around 1,000 points (I can't recall for which edition).

Aquaman could easily be considered a powerful hero given that his physical strength, skin, and bone density are able to survive the high pressure depths of the ocean and has advanced senses from being able to see in the darkest of seas. Add in the powers from wielding the Trident of Poseidon, and he could potentially rank up there. I've only read a couple dozen JLA and related issues from the different time periods (early to mid 1980s, early 1990s, and early 2000s) but saw how Aquaman's power level varied from writer to writer, just like he will vary from GM to GM's interpretation from comics, movies, TV shows, and conversions from other game systems like Mayfair's DC Heroes and Green Ronin's DC Adventures.😉

Hi, Everyone!  I just posted some character write-ups for heroes featured in the fantasy RPG game Shining Force for the Sega Genesis console in an exercise of fun nostalgia. I tried to keep the write-ups simple and are intended for new players in the Hero System. Special thanks to Killer Shrike for his package deal write-ups on Centaurs and Dwarves that helped me develop these character conversions.

Enjoy! 🙂

I use 6th Edition rules from Champions Complete. Instead of running a campaign, I host sessions at game conventions and RPG charity events where players select a pre-generated character from the DC or Marvel Universe for a scenario. The scenario is designed so that characters from different universes can participate in the same adventure.

In terms of points, I follow the general guidelines in the Champions Complete rules. Here's a quick run-down and examples of characters I've developed using those general benchmarks:

300 CPs = Low-powered/Youthful/Street level heroes (Booster Gold, Blue Beetle, Huntress from Justice League, Beast Boy from Teen Titans, Jubilee from X-Men)

400 CPs = Standard Heroes (Cyclops and Beast from X-Men)

500 CPs = High Powered Heroes (Captain America, Power Girl, Colossus, Rogue)

600 CPs = Extremely Powerful Heroes (Batman, Green Lantern, Storm, Wonder Woman)

750 CPs = Cosmically Powerful Heroes (Superman)

Hope this helps!

On 5/21/2020 at 4:24 PM, Mr. R said:

I like the take on them EXCEPT for one point.  An 8d6 KA!  WOW!  When everything else about him is about 75 active points, this comes to a 120 point ability.  I know it is a dragon, but unless you want a few flipped tables, that attack better be justified, real good.  

 

As it is when he hits with it he does on average 24 body and 48 stun.  If he rolls good 32-35 and anywhere from 64 to 105 stun.  I know it is in a MP, but seriously, if I were in a game and the GM brought this out and we got a TPK, I would leave the game.  OR I would ask that we can do the same, then watch as the game spirals into a wild west who shots first type game with a lot of collateral damage.  But this is just MHO!

The power level of a villain's attack I would employ as the GM depended on the players' power levels. If they were heavy hitters (e.g. Hulk, Thor, Superman), then Duraig may hit with the full force for a full KA. If their player power level was mid-range to standard (e.g. Cyclops, Iron Man, Vision), then a lower KA would be employed. Additionally, I've had players with a mix of power levels (e.g. Justice League members that with street level heroes like Huntress teaming up with heavy-hitters like Superman and Green Lantern) take on Doomsday-level villains that had higher KAs at conventions for the past few years and didn't have people flipping tables and arbitrarily leave the game as you described. 😉 Even if someone did act that way, that individual would have probably been told to leave the event by the staff; that sort of overreaction is uncalled for at the very least.

As a reference point, I used the Champions: New Millennium write-up for Malais the Dragon that was based on 4th Edition rules as my starting point. In that rules set, Malais the Dragon's claw strike is also an 8d6 KA when he uses his full strength, so I didn't arbitrarily make that up (screenshot).

If you feel that Duraig is over-powered, that's fine and is why I included the Hero Designer File for you and others to modify to suit your respective campaigns. 🙂

Here are two more superhero images I created for past character write-ups several years ago, Lady Victrix and Shadowhawk.

7 hours ago, Lord Liaden said:

The current official Champions Universe has a version of the Black Paladin that doesn't follow his New Millennium continuity, whom I personally like better than the NM version.

Champions: The New Millennium was where I drew inspiration and the baseline stats for those new characters. I didn't have Champions: Villains Volume One, but am a little curious to compare between the two versions. I definitely preferred the New Millennium write-ups for Quantum and Solitaire over their original 4th Edition versions.😀

7 hours ago, Steve said:

My immediate reaction to the post title was, "With each other?" 😱

Not quite, considering the originals are all male. 😇 In the storyline, it's Black Paladin's daughter, Black Magus's niece, and a member of the Malais's dragon brood. 🙃

Here are a few more that I created for character write-ups from years past: Fusion and Miss Dynamo.

Here are a few superhero characters I created using some form of CGI a few years ago: Fiero, Firephoenix, and Interceptor.

Hi, Everyone! One of the story arcs I developed was to feature the descendants of Black Paladin, Black Magus, and Malais the Dragon. The result was the creation of Shadowblade, Mistress Arcane, and Duraig the Dragon. The character write-ups and Hero Designer files are available for download as a Zip file here:

On 5/3/2020 at 8:00 AM, IndianaJoe3 said:

 

 

The Bookworm, or maybe Egghead.

Riddler also...and maybe even the Joker who alludes to a clue he hid in the wall of text in a comment, "You forgot to read the fine print..."

3 hours ago, Spence said:

Like I said, I am not an expert, but what I observe doesn't add up.

You are not alone in that thought, Spence. Unfortunately, we'll never really know why certain decisions were and were not made by the company's senior staff and leadership team.

8 hours ago, DreadDomain said:

I agree. Champions Complete could have benefited from 3 things.

Sections S and C from the Champions 4E.

The Superhero Gallery from Champions 6E.

The production value of Champions 6E.

 

Yes, Champions Complete would have been a much better product if it possessed those three important elements. For me, Champions Complete is a much better alternative for running Champions than the set of Hero System 6th Edition textbooks. Unfortunately, am not sure if Hero Games had the resources to publish something to that quality at that point. When one compares the product quality of the Champions source book published in February 2010 and Champions Complete published in November 2012, there is noticeable downturn (e.g. cover and interior art).

It's too bad that Hero Games could not re-package 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (and maybe even 4th and 5th) as something like, Classic Champions with some new cover art for sale or print-on-demand where there is the softcover and hardcover option, something that the company producing Mighty Protectors (V&V 3.0) did. The publishers for D&D did something similar with its 1st Edition books with success (attached is an example). Granted, the parent company has much, much more financial capital to draw from to make that happen. 😉

22 hours ago, zslane said:

The 4e BBB is also my favorite edition. In fact, it's my favorite RPG rulebook of all time.

Yes, there's a soft spot in my heart for the 4th Edition BBB as well. 🙂 At the time, it was a comprehensive rules book that held up well to its competitors in terms of presentation and style. I also liked the simplified format for listing character stats. Attached is a 4th Edition write-up I did for Superman for a previous game convention and a current one for 6th Edition to compare the subtle differences between the two.

From my understanding, the intent of Champions Complete was to be something comparable to the 4th Edition BBB...a comprehensive book to play Champions (or the Hero System in general, when you break it down) that wasn't over 600+ pages of rules that read like a textbook. How the latter was going to attract new players to Champions or the Hero System in general continues to baffle me today. 🤨

Superman4E.pdf Superman6E.pdf

1 hour ago, Sketchpad said:

This is my biggest problem with Hero books. As a designer, I want a book that looks polished, not a text book from 1983. I should also note that @DreadDomain has an awesome layout for character stats. If I were to make books for Hero, I would be looking to borrow elements from it.

Same here. It was the textbook writing style and excessive rules that pushed me away from Hero for a while to check out other superhero RPGs over the years. The big transition in style and tone arguably started during the transition from 4th to 5th Edition when it stopped reading like a game and more like a textbook (I've posted this before in another discussion topic). By then, some of the game designers who had helped develop earlier editions had been let go (or forced out, depending who you ask) in lieu of new staff writers and leadership that developed what exists now with 5th and 6th Edition. 

If it wasn't for Champions Complete, I would probably be still playing DC Heroes (Third Edition) by Mayfair Games or running Mighty Protectors (V&V 3.0).

11 hours ago, Spence said:

 

Well said.   

One thing I would like to see is Champions products with M&M production value....

Yes! The production quality and style of Mutants & Masterminds and ICONS,  along with other games like Fantasy Age and Dragon Age by Green Ronin Publishing has always been first rate. I would love to see that also and would happily purchase those products.

5 hours ago, zslane said:

I played in a GURPS Supers game for a brief time back in the early '90s and it was awful. Part of that was due to the GM not really understanding the superhero genre (he was really a GURPS Fantasy guy),

Your mentioning of your GM's challenges reminds me of a humorous vignette I read in the 5th Edition Champions sourcebook, if I remember right, that explained the superhero genre and how to run scenarios in it. As an example of what can go wrong, the vignette described Joe Orlando, who had spent around 20 years or so working on EC's Tales from the Crypt before working for Marvel Comics. He kept asking his script writers things like, "Why does the Thing have to smash through the wall to get into the building? Couldn't he just use the door like everyone else?" The exasperated writer replied, "Joe, either you get it or you don't!"

11 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

Oh! 

 

I almost forgot Supergame.

 

Well, actually, I had forgotten it, until you had me dredge my memory for super's games I've played.

 

Do you have any _idea_ how long it took me to forget that horrid thing?!

 

 

 

 

It's funny you mentioned that game. I didn't discover it until the past couple of years and had no idea that it had been around for as long as Champions and Villains & Vigilantes. I definitely would've had fun with it when I was starting out with RPGs in 5th and 6th grade since the system was fairly easy, but definitely would have moved on from it after a year or so. 🙂

16 hours ago, Sundog said:

I've used Villains and Vigilantes, but I was put off by the randomness of it. The original Marvel Superheroes and DC Heroes games were better, but I've always returned to Champions after I was introduced to it in Third Edition.

The randomness of V&V turned us off as well, and we ignored that rule and ended up picking powers when we created heroes and villains back when we played it in the mid-1980s. Granted, there was little game balance as a result and had way over-powered heroes and villains at times.

Just to let you know, after a long, drawn-out court battle Jeff Dee and Jack Herman finally regained their intellectual property rights from their work on Villains & Vigilantes and in recent years released Mighty Protectors via Kickstarter, which is basically V&V 3.0. The players and GM now have the option of being allocated points to choose the powers and level of that ability and follows the same basic game mechanics with that "old school" feel.

Champions was first introduced to me through 3rd Edition in the late 1980s (I started out with Villains & Vigilantes first in the early 1980s) and have been playing on and off since then along with Fantasy Hero along the way. At one point I collected some old second edition materials, along with 4th, 5th, and 6th Edition and more recently have Champions Complete that I run at the various local game convention events.

However, Champions has not been the only superhero roleplaying game I've ever played or owned. At one point or another I've played (and owned) DC Heroes, ICONS, Villains & Vigilantes, along with owning (but never really playing) Silver Age Sentinels (Tri-Stat and D20), Guardians, Invulnerable, Mutants and Masterminds, Supergame, Prowlers & Paragons, Savage Worlds (there's a superhero expansion), BASH!, Supers, Marvel Superheroes (FASERIP system), Truth & Justice, Mighty Protectors (updated version of V&V), and probably one or two others that I read digitally via DriveThruRPG but have forgotten. Although each of those systems had their strengths in style, rules for running a superhero themed RPG, substance, and play-ability, I always found myself comparing that rules system to the Hero System and going back to Champions.

What other superhero RPGs have you played? And, do you find yourself coming back to Champions afterwards?

I just posted the consolidated list of Marvel character write-ups I developed for the game conventions and events I supported in one Zip file for download. An asterisk (*) indicates that the Hero Designer file is included:

Antman, Beast*, Captain America, Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers)*, Colossus, Cyclops, Hawkeye*, Hulk*, Human Torch, Invisible Woman, Iron Man*, Jean Grey*, Mr. Fantastic*, Rogue*, She-Hulk*, Spider-Woman*, Storm*, Thor*, Vision*, Wasp, and Wolverine*.

Here's the link:

Enjoy! 🙂

A couple of notes that I forgot to mention when I posted the various files:

1) These character write-ups were designed for use at game conventions and charity events where I ran Champions. As such, the character sheet was simplified as much as possible for the players who showed up at my table. By design, it was intended to have all the information and character image fit on one page. Details like height/weight, powers and tactics, etc. were omitted on the Hero Designer files as a result.

2) Players attending the game convention weren't concerned about every minute detail for the superhero he or she selected such as height/weight and the extraneous information on the standard Hero System character sheet (e.g. hit location chart). As long as it covered the main powers and abilities of the superhero selected that was reasonably close in terms of power levels, the players were extremely pleased with the write-ups and enjoyed the scenario. The number of points listed was a general guide for the player to see how powerful that character was and for me to determine which foes the players were encountered to keep the game relatively balanced (e.g. I wasn't going to have a player choosing X-Men's Beast to fight someone like Apocalypse or Magneto by himself).

Here's the last wave of DC Heroes I wrote up for 5th Edition. Unfortunately, this group does not have supporting Hero Designer files.

Am in the process of converting 5th Edition to 6th Edition, so will eventually post them as well, to include villains with Hero Designer files.

Enjoy!