PhilFleischmann

I think I would get round that by saying that the Change Environment was not providing bonuses, it would only counter penalties due to extant environmental conditions which are being remedied by the Change Environment power. 🙂

Yeah. Change Environment is not supposed to grant bonuses, which is a rather arbitrary ruling and one I don't agree with.  Personally, I think the best way to model light is using the Change Environment model to grant +PER to sight as normal darkness is mechanically represented by -PER penalties to sight.
 
Images only for light is to me a very awkward construct and basically a handwave. It is however the official way to do it. Personally, I just rely on common sense for this kind of thing...I don't really care what the mechanical representation is per se, I consider the intensity of the light source and distance from the light source and assess a lighting conditions PER penalty (including -0) the same as I would for an ambient light source.

Hey everyone.
 
Haven’t been active for many years here, but after a move out of state I might have finally found a group of players for Champions. Not getting too excited about it yet, but figured I’d polish up and see what’s new.

Firstly, I like the rule and this is largely tongue-in-cheek.  I am myself a black belt and have broken many boards and concrete blocks over the years and even a brick once.
 
Secondly, martial artists do these things using the following skills (in order of importance)
1-  Deception:  Most of the things they are breaking are either very breakable (pine vs. oak) or arranged in a way to maximize breakability (concrete slabs with spacers on the outer edges).
2-  Fitness:  A huge part of being a functional martial artist is being stronger and faster than your untrained counter-parts.  Lose the fitness and your many skills mean almost nothing at all.
3-  Conditioning:  By slamming your fists, shins and knuckles into hard objects on a repeat basis you eventually increase bone density and this helps a lot when it comes to not breaking your bones on the aforementioned objects.
 
Still, replace a stack of lame pine boards (I've broken 2 at once holding them by my finger tips while hitting with my free hand) with a single 1" thick piece of Oak and you'd see nothing but broken hands.
 
It's cheap stage magic folks and I say that as a former member of the cheap stage magicians guild. 

I’ll have to use Neil Patrick Collins the next time I need a NPC. ?

Self-Inflicted Damage: This is a rule I adapted from the original (pre-4th Ed.) HERO sourcebook, The Golden Age of Champions. As it stands now the HERO rules make no provision for someone striking a hard, unyielding object with a part of their bodies and injuring themselves, like punching a stone wall, which would often occur in real life. Strictly by the rules as currently written, a human being could eventually beat a car into scrap with his bare hand.  This rule is intended to create a more realistic situation for people who prefer that in their games.
Whenever a character strikes a "soft" target without Resistant Defense, like normal human flesh, he never takes damage from the attack himself. When a character strikes an object with Resistant Defense (which most inanimate objects have, and even some characters such as those wearing armor), he may suffer STUN and BODY damage up to the maximum rolled for the attack. The character's own applicable Defenses would reduce this damage. If using the optional Hit Location rules, the damage can be modified by the multipliers for the Hit Location of the body part you used to strike with.
If the Body damage the character rolls is higher than the Resistant Defense of the object,  and enough to destroy all of its remaining BODY after subtracting its DEF, or do Knockdown or Knockback to the target, the character suffers no damage from the attack himself.  If the character rolls more BODY Damage than the Resistant DEF of the target, but not enough to destroy all its remaining BODY, and does no Knockdown or Knockback, he takes half the damage from the attack, reduced by his total applicable DEF. If the character doesn't roll more BODY Damage than the Resistant Defense, and does no Knockdown or Knockback, he suffers the full damage himself, minus his total applicable Defense.
This is a useful rule to explain how trained martial artists can break boards, concrete blocks etc. without breaking their hands, feet etc.  It can also work as a weapon-breaker, with the damage being inflicted to the weapon a character strikes with, or a weapon used to block an incoming blow, instead of his own body.  It works for any object with Resistant Defenses, without the need to stat out a Damage Shield for every wall. It could also apply to that classic scenario of a normal person striking a superhuman with "skin of steel" and injuring his hand. As an optional rule for "normals" as opposed to supers, it helps distinguish the two in a superheroic campaign.
 

What I would do with a hypothetical Seventh Edition is avoid it like the plague.
 
By this point the rules have been combed through, deconstructed, revised, game-balanced, clarified, optionized, and hair-split to within an inch of their lives. There are no more pressing problems in the system that need to be addressed. Any further modifications would simply reflect the personal opinions and preferences of whoever was given responsibility for creating a new edition; and we all already modify the RAW to suit our preferences anyway. For alternative ways of doing things, we have earlier editions to draw from.
 
I see no need and feel no desire to invest time and money learning yet another iteration of Hero.

Here's some of what's in my "what I'd do to 7th edition"
Increase cost of Endurance Stat  to 3 END per 1 point Increase cost of Recovery Stat to 3 REC per 2 points Followers/Summon: not 5 points to double, but a percentage of total cost (so super cheap creatures are not more expensive to double than just buy) but with max cost System that allows Aid to grant powers rather than simply enhance Restructure Mental powers to be less like presence attacks and more like transform Rebuild power defense: 3/2 for everything, 1/1 for specifics; but always resistant (-½ limitation to be non-resistant) Change Environment can create some positive effects, less about saving throw effects and more about altering environment Flash defense for non combat senses = -½ limitation Growth strip away all stat bonuses, leave only reach etc, recost Rebuild Deflection (add in reflection as a variant) Return Missile Deflection but clarify to be not everything rather missiles and similar attacks rather than allowing everyone to deflect ranged attacks Healing does not have a time limit on it, increase cost to 15/d6 and suggest limitations Reintroduce Spirit Rules Make HA and Blast into one attack with either STR adds or range Return Transfer as a Talent-like build (ie all the math is in the background) Return Instant Change as a Talent-like build (ie all the math is in the background) Add in some of the APG ideas Recostskill levels so they are more attractive than just CV Better, clearer version of Hero Points (don't start with 2d6 for one thing) In the "breaking things/environment" section note how to use adjustment powers on non-statted items like fires, etc in a simple manner Adjacent Sense Modifier = up to 5m distant AE "Surface" double in area for cost AE "Any" double in area for cost Damage over Time becomes "Effect Over Time" allowing broader conceptual use. Simplify Skill list (reduce overlap, strip down skills like TF and WF to simpler structures) I like the idea of the "takes no Body" option, it makes sense for some builds and concepts.  You cannot kill it, only defeat it, temporarily.

Of the ones mentioned so far, I agree with Men in Black II, Watchmen, and National Treasure.  And maybe a half-agree with Joe Dirt.

I remember facing a villain whose standard MO was to
 
1) Make himself Invisible,
2) Project an Image of himself,
3) Use all his Attack powers bought with Indirect - they come from the Image.
 
So all attacks against him have no effect at all.  You have to figure out how he's doing it, and be able to see and target the invisible guy to defeat him.

But there's more to the "cost" of a weapon than its manufacturing.  There's also the training and skill needed to use it.  When firearms were first invented, they weren't very good - they often misfired, and they were slow to reload, and they were certainly expensive to make.  Nonetheless, they still caught on very quickly.  Even though swords and bows and arrows were "better" in many ways, guns were so much easier to use.  Just point and shoot.  Very little strength required, relative to a sword or bow.  And when you want to raise an army, sufficiently skilled personnel is a lot more expensive than weapons.  Anyone with two functioning hands and reasonably good eyesight can fire a rifle with a decent level of effectiveness.
 
Why are there swords in science fiction?  Because many science fiction writers are really writing fantasy.  Just cross out the word "monster" and put in "alien".  Replace "distant kingdom" with "distant planet".  Instead of "evil magic curse on the world", say "planet-destroying weapon" or "doomsday device".  And keep the swords, even if you have to rename them.

The Birdie Song will get stuck in your head
 
Nothing and I say nothing his kid has done will ever be as bad as this
 

Lordy..
 Feelings.. Yeah that's a bad one. Your first one, I've heard, but as a dance mix that isn't too bad though.
 
But really annoying?
 

Later Decades had their share, though
 
 
 

And I further nominate John Lennon's Imagine and Nirvana's Smells Like Teen Spirit. Or Lou Reed’s Walk On The Wild Side. 
 
I assume I don't have to post YouTube videos for these annoying songs? 

If you have small children, you know the horror....
 
 

1982 was particularly bitter. Another awful No 1
 
This was No 1 as well
 

I am not  a fan of swords on starships.  Axes might work better, but I would prefer short barreld shotguns. Tiny  pellets dont do much past the walls, but do a number on unarmored flesh. armoured flesh means switching to slug rounds with shaped charges, XD
 
 
(Not a fan of the "Rule of Cool")

And all the Japanese cartoons that inspired them.  There is  was a cool factor there until the prequels just passed the things around like candy.  Got tired of seeing them, honestly.
 
 
 
No matter how you tear that thing apart, analyze it, or study and create some kind of methodology for it's use, that thing is stupid from start to finish.  The only way to use it with minimal risk to yourself and the guys on either side of you is as a very short, very limited-options staff, and a very short, very limited option staff would be better at it.
 
 
 
 
I'll come back to that, but first I'd like to say that the Traveller justification works well enough, honestly.
 
 
 
When firearms are illegal from top to bottom in all places-- 
well, let's face it:   people are still going to want to kill each other.  It's in our nature.  Swords work better than sticks.  So you never know: social pressure might actually result in them coming back.  Even today, there are just as many places selling (seriously low-quality artistic junk) swords as there are guns, at least in the US.
 
 
 
Addressed already: the Traveller justification may not be absolutely perfect, but it is reasonable enough to accept as plausible in a game setting.
 
 
What else do you _need_?!  
 
 
 
 
And airlines and conduits and all those other things-- the Traveller justification.  However, if you're fighting inside a Traveller-esque ship, you'd better be using them for stabbing only, as swinging them in those tight corridors causes the same "cutting things" problems, compounded by the presence of your teammates swinging swords in narrow corridors.
 
 
 
And that's a great place to start with "why."   If we're going the Traveller / space opera route, we have more than one culture.  We have more than the cultures of one planet.  Given potentially a thousand new cultures, or a thousand-thousand new cultures, it's entirely possible that some of those cultures, for whatever reason, find swords to be the most practical personal weapon.  Even today, should I live in Canada or England, I-- as a tourist-- would likely have a way easier time finding a big knife than I would have finding a hand gun.  The catch, of course, is that the pigsticker is a bit harder to conceal---
 
which in _itself_-- the fact that you _know_ if buddy-cross-the-table is packing a sword or not-- may be one of the very reasons that some sci-fi cultures find swords to be more socially-acceptable weapons.  Who can say?
 
But keep running with space-opera settings: traveling to untold worlds, a hundred tech levels from "Wheels?!  That's one _hell_ of an idea!" to stone hatchets to compound bows to pistols to pocket missiles to nuclear-weapons concealed in prosthetic eyes to who knows what?!
 
So I stop at Aldebaran Station and load up: I refill my sand casters and missile launchers, maybe trade off some cargo space for a small power plant so I can add that last beam weapon I've been dreaming of....   I get my slug and pellet throwers serviced (last mission saw a _lot_ of action!  You can _hear_ the barrel slop on that automatic! ), and I get two crates of ammo for each of them.  I grab a couple of flash and stun grenades, just in case the natives are hostile where I'm going, fill the galley, and off I go, my crew and I ready for adventure.
 
We get halfway to our destination, prepare for another jump, foof-- misjump.  Lucky us, we can detect a habitable tech 1 planet at extreme range and head for it.  Navigator says the comp and some of the hardware needs work.  Looks like we'll be camping for four months or so, given we're going to have to cannibalize a few things and make a few others.  Turns out the natives _are_ hostile, and more than one hunting trip has resulted in attack.  By the end of the third month, we're pretty low on deadly noisemakers.  The natives, iron age bastards that they are, seem to have one distinct advantage over us with their swords:  the don't have to reload.  Sure, they're sucking hind teat on offensive ranged capability, but they've got the area knowledge; they've got the skills-- the tend to get pretty damned close before we even see them!  We fire eight shots and we're out; stop to reload.  They keep swinging those swords....
 
 
So we've got that in favor of swords, at least as a back-up weapon (which honestly, even in Traveller, other than duels, back up weapons is all I ever really saw a sword being used for, even for NPCs.  Everyone had a gun, but they all had a sword of some sort for on-board work and in case that gun failed.  Guns are inherently more complicated than swords, after all.
 
 
Or suppose we leave the Imperium entirely.  I've been two seven worlds and can't find a damned thing that will work with my Browning or my Dan Wesson.  That kind of sucks, because I really _like_ that Dan Wesson!  So I've spent money on new slug throwers and new ammunition on every planet, only to find I have to do it all over again if I don't scrape up the funds to start buying it by the metric ton!   My steward, though, has come to realize that regardless of how they build their guns, all these different people still bleed a _lot_ when you chop them with something.
 
I have more, but I don't have the time, so I hope some of this might get your "why we need swords" juices flowing.
 
 
Now backing way up to Connery's Outland, or whatever it was called--- well these problems don't apply.  It's sci-fi, but we didn't leave the planet(ish), so why bother? 
 
 

Also keep in mind that good swords are expensive, and people need training to use them well.
 
I had thought of creating a science fantasy campaign, where some force field prevented modern and futuristic firearms from working. The PCs would probably try to find that force field and negate it. I nixed that idea because it would have turned into a retread of some previous campaigns. But I can post it in the Fantasy Hero boards if you wish.
 
In any case, my players prefer guns over swords anyway. I am leaning toward a non-military science fiction campaign, which will be hard enough to sell.

I understand why there are lightsabers in Star Wars; the Jedi Order is (or was) a part of the setting. But there are other examples of swords in scifi. Klingons have the bat'leth. The Narn and Centauri have their own blades. Traveller, Warhammer 40000, and Halo all include swords in their arsenals.
 
But why? Swords aren't used in combat nowadays, and they aren't about to make a comeback in the battlefield anytime soon. Why would they make a comeback in the far future?
 
The Traveller rpg has some explanation: Swords are used instead of guns to prevent damaging internal systems when fighting on board a starship. They are a feature on sword & planet stories, so those get a pass. Otherwise, they don't seem to fit in the genre. Maybe there is some technology in the game/fiction that is preventing firearms or lasers from functioning.
 
Any ideas on this, besides the "swords are cool" trope?

Aid without advantages should probably target and affect a man-sized object (i.e. 2m x .5m x .5m, 100kg), which means a Harden Stone spell without AoE would only affect a man-sized area.  I think it would be fair to adjust the size to 2m x 2m x .125m, which would be sufficient to stop Tunneling.  If you want the spell to affect all material in a large area, I would require it to be bought with an AoE.
 
Though really, I'd just build the spell like this:
Harden Stone: Change Environment (-10m of Tunneling), Area Of Effect (32m Radius; +1) (20 Active Points) Then add any appropriate limitations.  

Been awhile since I ran a game and studied the deep esoterica of Hero System, but I would judge that Aid would require AoE. It is a good method if the spell wears off but might get prohibitively expensive to do so.
 
Transform is not something I would recommend.
 
Barrier is your best bet if the change is permanent. The special effect of transforming the rock to this new "dense rock" can easily be simulated using that rule more easily than others. Just toss on a "Only to harden the existing rock"  requirement (which, at best, I would allow a -¼ Limitation on) and define it as the existing rock in the defined area. I know the Barrier power says "create," but sculptors "create" art from existing clay or stone. This is much the same concept.
 
Just my $0.02.

Pre-2000, I'd have placed the Hulk above the X-Men in the popular consciousness. His TV show got him a LOT more name recognition than any amount of comics, and arguably he was still more recognizable than all of them except Wolverine after the X-Men movies.