sbarron

Re: Species Traits I think that Fred's way of handling this is easily the best of any of the options I've seen. It is the same for all characters, and therefore both fair and balanced. If you want to be a giant, you have to pay for being strong. You want to play an agile elf, you have to pay for Dex. What's wrong with that? It's already up to every Games Operations Director to set limits for his game. And NCM is designed to reinforce genre conventions in Heroic games, buy limiting the number of character that have characteristics above the "heroic" range (more than 20). By charging double for anything above 20, it does that effectively. If a GM wants giants to be able to buy up their STR more cheaply than any of the other characters, he has several ways available for him to do that (upping their NCM, providing a higher starting point, etc). But any method you use is going to make playing a giant more cost effective than other types of characters (which I think we agree is bad). Of course, he could then penalize giant characters in other ways, or find ways to provide points to other races, but what would be the point? He could just as easily let the double costs for stats above NCM do that for him. Age is a disadvantage. There has to be a penalty for taking it. Lowering your NCM is that penalty. You can play a 80 year old man without taking Age 80+, and buy the stats that you feel are apropriate without penalty. Again, I see nothing wrong with it.

Like everything else in Hero, being completely immune to something is technically impossible. Nu Soard has some good suggestions. Here's mine. There was a character in Horror Hero that had the psychological disadvantage: Fearless. Depending on how far the GM let you go with this, this might be a way to go. Of course, it would need to work against the character if bought this way. A 100 pt character in a Cthulu campaign would have problems because of this limitation. A 350 super probably would not.

I'm going to suggest you change back SuperBlue. What is the fun in playing a world class martial artist in a supers campaign if you don't know some "secret" and/or "ancient" moves that make your character exceptional? Regular maneuvers are ok, but with a VPP, you could have: Unblockable Punch: HA, AoE 1 Hex Perfect Block: Force Wall, 1 hex, only attacks character could block Breaking Strike: HKA, Penetrating Perfect Dodge: Desilodification Snatch Arrow: Missle Deflection Long Punch: HA, Stretching Faster than the eye strike: HA, Invisible power effects Flurry: HA, Autofire Hu Mountain Far Kick: EB, PD, IPE I'm just making these up off the top of my head, so please forgive me if some of them aren't mechanically sound. The supposed "best" MAist from 4th Edition used a VPP to represent his MA style, so it's not like the VPP is unsound. It just depends on the kind of character you want to play, and the limits of you and your GMs imagination.

That is along the lines of how I would handle it as well. It is interesting that most Hero gamers initial response to in game effects is to try to define a power or skill to simulate it. Player: I'll set the glass of water on the table. GM: Ok, make a dex check to ensure you don't spill the one recoverable charge, glass of water...and if you want to use the glass of water on a regular basis, you'll need to pay the points for it. Player: But it's just a glass of water. GM: Right, but the glass of water is Life Support: surviving in desert, one charge... I'm not trying to take a shot at anybody, because I do it to. I just find it amusing.

Early on in my Gming days, I scolded my 125 point PCs for performing so badly against a group of 65 pt orcs. My savy players were quick to point out, however, that while they were indeed more points than their orc opponents, the orcs were 65 points of combat machine. The PCs were pretty well balanced for a variety of situations, and the points they spent on combat related abilities and skills compared pretty closely to the orcs. It was an eye opening experience for me. Points systemes can be balanced. But how those points are spent goes a long ways toward determining who is most likely to win a fight. More is not always better.

I don't know if this sale is nationwide or not, but my local WOTC store is selling all non-WOTC published gaming books at 70% off. The manager said that non-WOTC published stuff just wasn't selling very well, so they were having this sale and were going to stop carrying so much non-WOTC material. I picked up the HERO System Resource Kit for about $8.00. It's something to look into if there is a WOTC store near you. Hero Games cheap!

Since a few posters mentioned that my complaints are more the group's fault than the system's, I want to reiterate that I agree with them. The right group of gamers can make any system work. I just think that many of the conventions in D&D, as Derek pointed out, tend to steer players toward a style of play that is not typical of the genre and not really what I'm into anymore. And because many of them have never played any fantasy RPG other than D&D, they don't realize what (I think) they are missing. This is the root of my frustration. I can't even talk to them about changing things up. To them, there is only one way to play a fantasy RPG, and it's what we're doing. I don't like my chances of trying to ween these guys off the teat of D&D, so maybe I can at least begin to shape their gaming away from the accumulation of wealth and magic and more towards the rewards of a good story. But in the slightly altered words of our favorite starship doctor..."dammit Jim, I'm a Hero gamer, not a miracle worker."

That's so true. When I am playing FH and my character gets into a tight jam, I immediately start going through my skill list, trying to figure out what my character should do next. When I play D&D and get into a jam, I start looking over my magic items. D&D has gotten better about this with Feats and Skills, but magic items still tend to define character capabilities. It's a small difference, but I think highlights one of the reasons I like Hero better.

The DM encouraged me to make an elaborate background in his world (which I knew nothing about). So I did. Now, when everything about my character screams he needs to be avenging his family and finding out what destroyed his villiage, we're getting ready to sail across the ocean to convert our recently won mithril currency into GP, because the local economy can't handle doing it. You can see from above that the rest of the party has big plans for this gold and the magic it can buy. For me...what the hell is the point to that? I must admit I've been having more fun playing Neverwinter Nights modules off the net than I have been in my P&P. It's because of the story, I just know it. I like my gaming to have one, and my character important in it. Fortune, glory, and power without a good story is...hollow, I guess.

I've been playing in a D&D3 game for about 3 months now. (Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, I can't find a Hero game, and this problem isn't directly the fault of D&D3) The game is OK, but the lack of any sort of purpose or design to the game world is really starting to get me down. Magic doesn't make sense, the character classes make less sense, the other players are good guys, but they seem to have zero sense of style or concern with continuity. There is no mystery, no drama...I don't know, something is missing. I just got copied in on an e-mail between one player and the GM today. I think it really highlights my problem.... "I have been looking at upgrading my mace as discussed on the phone. What needs to be done in order to to enhance a magical item by giving it more magical powers..is there an upper limit? For instance...I would like to add greater shock (DM's manuel) a +1 improvement to the gloves and maybe disruptor a +2. Brigning the total of improvements to +3. According to the table in the DM's guide this costs for a new item about 18,000 gp (don't quote me on that) Is it the same price or less for adding in the improvement to an already exisitng item? As it is not creating the item over again is it cheaper or harder? Does it just requier a spell caster. This is also why I am all whiny about the devaluation of Kurants mithril currency. In effect, my character lost about 250,000 gp that would have made some seriously nice improvements. Especiall since I was going to burn off about 75,000 to upgrade the mace to have incorpreal, shock, and energy blade. Now it would do 1d6+ base and ignore AC. There is also an item called a packmaster fail in the arms and equipment guide. It is the ultimate gnoll weapon. It proveds a +10 diplomacy and +10 intimidation to gnolls who use it. Also, all gnolls treat me as friendly ( I need to look at the book to confirm this) and I can summon 1d3 fiendish gnolls to assist me once a day for 10 minutes. Cool cool cool!" Now obviously, this player is psyched about these magic items he's trying to get created, and that is good for any game. But the fact that he is so concerned with the +'s and GP costs of "upgrading or creating" magic items, and the exact effect that they will have the game mechanics, is leaving me cold. There is no story here, no mystery, no in game excitement. There is only, "well, the DM Guide says this, so I'm going to do it." I realize a big part of the problem is the GM, and the fact that he has not really checked any of this. Having talked to him, in his mind the DM's Guide is gospel. Anything in any of the other "official" published books is as well. But to me, this approach has left us with a campaign world that makes little sense, with characters who have powers and abilities that make little sense, and with tons of magic and magic weapons that have no mystique. Now I am going to take a shot a D&D, because I think they are part of this problem. But first, let me just say that I have been having fun, and I think they have done an excellent job of improving the core system. But so much of it just makes NO sense. One of our characters picked up a pestige class from the Fighters handbook called "Ghostwalker" (or something like that). Now it's my understanding that anyone who takes this Prestige class can turn incorporeal 3 times a day. There is other stuff they can do to, but this one just seems absurd! As far as I know, there is no explaination of why they can do this. No "brush with the ethereal plane," no "studying of archaic texts," nothing. Just, "you take this class, you can..." Much in the system seems to be like this. Just some kewl effect with little or no attempt at explanation or continuity. In a way, the lack of continuity is the continuity. No one else in my group seems to even notice this, much less see it as a problem. And when I have mentioned it, they have given me looks like I was speaking Draconic (another topic that makes no sense to me). Given the fact the D&D does little to address these issues, it's no wonder many players don't ever worry about it making any sense. I guess you don't need to to have a good time, and some people seem to relish in it. I just don't think it's for me. Am I crazy, or can anyone relate to this? Thanks for listening

Maybe I missed it, but I think steriaca is being sarcastic. When do you set the Ninja Hero setting? Ancient China? Modern San Fransisco? Where and whenever the B5 Legend of the Rangers is set? Ninjas generally, and martial arts specifically, covers too many genres to make into a single setting book. It's better as a part of other setting books, I think.

Sorry, tesuji. You get an A for sarcasm, but a D- for content. The correct box was... "The player that is actually role-playing a character with distictively unique abilities and personality will have more fun (and a more fulfilling role-playing experience) than any player that is roll-playing numbers he wrote down on a sheet of paper, regardless of the GM." Keep studying, though. I'm sure you can do better next time.

What Old Man said. Plus having a large shield will negate any DCV minuses that a PC, and all tanks have shields. I guess for me, I have already seen that END per turn, DCV and Dex roll minuses are not enough to discourage heavy tanks. That's why I thought going one step further, just having limits on dex, might be enough. Maybe minuses would be more palitable to everyone? As it stands now, generally the only reason a character would play a lightly armored fighter is because he likes the conept, classic ranger, barbarian, etc. If a player was primarily concerned about being the best in combat, they build a tank. I was hoping to fix that with a simple rules tweak, and not have to resort to a lot of GM imposed restrictions on character creation and development.

You should give the forum a shot at the creating the power you want first, I think. There are really very, very few instances where a new power actually has to be created.

I would argue that if you really wanted your characters hammer, shield, power ring to be unbreakable, then don't by it as a focus. There are other ways to save points, and maybe there is a reason that Caps shield never breaks, gets stolen, etc (except by the GM, of course). OIHID, anyone?

I'm not so worried about game balance as I am player balance. I would like for lightly armored characters and heavily armored characters to meet on more even footing in combat. I realize this isn't realistic. It is a convention of the fantasy genre that I would like to incorporate into my game, though. The character with light or no armor using spd and quickness to battle the lumbering, heavily armored character. I don't think that this is very well reflected with the armor rules, so I am looking for ways to simulate it. They are going to be heavily armored and have a high CV, regardless of what I do. They will also be lightly armored and have a high CV, be a small child with a high CV, and be a large frog with a high CV. That's the nature of the beast.

It would be kind of harsh, and an even larger step away from how Hero combat usually works. But there is no reason people couldn't build their characters, NPCs included, to take these rule changes into account. Additionally, if your average castle guard has a 13 dex, he will only be penalized if he wears the very heaviest armor. But then so would everyone else who is wearing the heaviest armor. Effective characters would chose not to buy Dex above the level of the armor they will typically wear. Characters that planned to wear heavy armor (knights, heavy cav, etc.), could buy skill levels, lightning reflexes, etc., to make up for the lower dex. High Dex characters would have already spent more of their points in Dex, and would then only be hurting themselves buy putting on the heavier armors. Only natural Dex based things (CV, DEX Roll, etc) will be affected by the armor. Skills, talents, and powers wouldn't be affected. This is completely a work in progress. So any imput is appreciated.

I was thinking that it would affect everything having to do with Dex, including who went first. Why do you think having it affect Spd would be abusive? Not that I neccessarily disagree, but what abuses do you forsee?

I've been thinking about trying to acheive more balance and realism for heavily armored vs. lightly armored characters lately. I really never thought that encumberance quite did enough to discourage characters from encasing themselves in heavy armor and wading into combat with little fear of getting hurt. I had high hopes for Combat luck as well, but because it costs points, and the heavy armor guy can take it too, I'm not sure that does it for me either. Having played D&D3 recently, I have to admit that it does an excellent job of balancing between light and heavy armor. So to take a que from them (accepting pariah status here), I'm think about the following armor rules, in addition to END costs for encumberance: In this system, a character can only utilize his DEX up to the level allowed by his armor type. For this example, assume a standard game with NCM: Resistant DEF 8-9, Very Heavy Armor - Character wearing this armor can only utilize his Dex up to a 12, regarless of how high it actually is. Resistant DEF 6-7, Heavy Armor - Character wearing this armor can only utilize his Dex up to a 14, regarless of how high it actually is. Resistant DEF 4-5, Medium Armor - Character wearing this armor can only utilize his Dex up to a 17, regarless of how high it actually is. Resistant DEF 2-3, Light Armor - Character wearing this armor can only utilize his Dex up to an 18, regarless of how high it actually is. Resistant DEF 0-1, Light Armor - Character wearing this armor has no restrictions on his Dex. This system hits the high Dex character wearing heavy armor where it hurts, in the OCV/DCV column. I'm not sure whether I would have this effect Spd as well, as that might be over-kill. There may be real problems with this I don't see, but on the surface I think it addresses some of my concerns. Anyway, let me know what you think.

Re: Armor Skill Do to a lack of Hero gamers in my area, I've been forced to play some D&D3 lately. And for all the things about it I don't like, I have to admit their system for balancing heavy armor vs. light or no armor is almost perfect. In case someone doesn't know how D&D armor works...basically, the heavier the armor a charcter has, the less Dex bonus he can use toward his Armor Class. You find a similar mechanic in the encumberance rules, but there is an additional level of defense in Hero games, DEF, which doesn't exist in D&D. DEF is what makes things difficult for balance between light and heavy armor, because there is an additional benefit to wearing heavy armor. So you can afford to get hit more. I had hoped that Combat Luck would work to shift the balance back toward lighter armored characters, but the fact that 1) they have to pay points to get it, 2) nothing is stopping the heavy armored chacter from taking it also, 3) lighter armored characters rely more on high DEX, which has a whole slew of other advantages in Hero. Maybe I just think about all this stuff too much and should just shut up and play?

HEY!!! I just saw Seeker! What's up with that? You guys shouldn't tease me. It's just cruel.

I haven't looked at my copy of Western Hero in a while, but I seem to recall that in duels: 1) Everyone is assumed to be holding their action until the phase the duel starts 2) Characters make a fast draw roll to see who goes first. In the event a character doesn't have fast draw, they make a Dex check 3) Characters could sacrifice speed for OCV buy "hurrying" their shot, I think on a -1 OCV for +1 fastdraw/Dex roll basis. I never actually played a Western Hero duel out this way though. We always went for realism. For the sake of cinimatic duels though, I think adding some kind of PRE attack would be cool. Maybe every 5 pts over opponents PRE caused -1 to fastdraw roll, or something. As far as charcters taking damage, most of the characters stated out in WH had lots of body. Since there was no armor, that makes sense. These days I'd let the PC buy 1 or 2 pts of Combat Luck. That should keep them alive long enough to get to the big boss, but not make things too safe for them.

So do it differently, Gary. This isn't physics class, it's a game.

I think you have it, Paul.

If the PC is left completely unchecked to buy spells as they see fit, then I agree with you completely. That's why I think the GM needs to develop some sort of system to check the growth and acquisition of spells, without seeming to just be hamstringing character growth. See my comment here in Yamo's HELLLPPP!!! thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2488&perpage=15&pagenumber=1