Doc Democracy

Yup, as an internal devotee, it sounds good.  I wonder how it plays to someone with no knowledge.  Market testing is tough, and expensive!!  🙂

48 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Again, sorry for deliberately mis-quoting you, but have you ever tried to copy/paste a large block on a phone?

I did it this morning for my entry, took me longer to italicise than anything else!  🙂

1 hour ago, Duke Bushido said:

I am a fair editor, though : yeah I k kw; it makes no sense. 

 

First sentence: lose the phase "by default." it's not necessary, and is precisely the sort of thing you add as filler to your school papers when no need to fluff up the word count. 

 

I'd do more,  but I'm at work and can't really play. 

Makes a lot of sense actually.  I do a lot of editing etc in my own job, does not mean my own text is not in need a bloody good editor. 🙂

I would encourage more people to come up with 300 words.  I think me and Hugh have a decent start but it is a particular emphasis, other people might have equally valid 300 words that put emphasis on an entirely different look at HERO.

Doc

Thanks Neil.  I note our Duke of small game books and lengthy posts recognised his limitations!  🙂

I am a bit disappointed noone else has had a go.  It is really about boiling down the system and should be a useful snapshot you could give people who have never played and ask "what is the HERO System?".

I am an inveterate text tinkerer and so, while I accept the changes and reasons, I have tinkered a bit for readability and emphasis.

I am most unhappy with the Speed bit, it is a low energy ending for an elevator pitch...but currently we have the following text.

The Hero System, by default,  strives to represent a cinematic reality but the system provides a vast array of options to alter the system’s lethality, level of realism, etc. 

The role of GMs includes deciding which options will be used and providing players with reasonably detailed guidelines on how to build their characters.   Hero does not have built-in guidelines (no 1st level wizards) and so it falls to the GM to ensure such context exists ahead of running a game. 

While Hero strives for a balanced, “get what you pay for and pay for what you get”, model, the GM must exercise a level of oversight.  Players build their characters in a detailed fashion starting from a default “basic human” set of abilities.  From that default, character points are spent on characters’ abilities, skills, physical and mental attributes and a wide range of possible abilities, both for combat and out-of-combat play.     

Task resolution in Hero System is governed by a 3D6 roll, which determines whether any contest is a success or a failure.  The default for most rolls is to roll 11 or less on 3D6, which can be modified (up or down) based on the character’s abilities, as well as diverse environmental and contextual modifiers.    

In combat, damage is inflicted against defences.  Damage (and defences) are most often defined as either energy or physical and may inflict both STUN (leading to unconsciousness) and BODY (leading to death) damage.     

One unique feature of the system is the Speed characteristic, purchased in character design.  Speed determines how often a character acts in a game turn.  The Speed Chart governs the default order in which characters’ actions will take place. Strategic decisions to delay the character’s actions in relation to those of opponents is a key facet of game play.

It is a TOUGH gig.

My first attempt which may be poorly thought through, is exactly 300 words.

The core of the HERO system is the 3D6 roll, you roll 3D6 to determine whether any contest is a success or a failure.  The default for most rolls is to roll 11 or less on 3D6 and that can be modified up or down based on skill levels, environmental and contextual modifiers and, in some games, powers possessed by characters involved in the contest.

In combat, a success means inflicting damage against defences.  Damage (and defences) is most often defined as either energy or physical and may inflict both STUN (which counts towards unconsciousness) and BODY (which counts towards death) damage. 

Players get to build their characters in a reasonably detailed fashion.  Every character begins with a default set of abilities that represent a basic human set of abilities.  Character points can then be spent on characters’ combat abilities, skills, physical and mental attributes and a wide range of abilities that are detailed in the Powers section of the book. 

A key feature of the system is the Speed Chart.  One characteristic that is available is SPEED.  This determines how often a character acts in a game turn.  If characters have different SPEEDS the Speed Chart outlines the order in which, by default, various characters’ actions will take place. Much of the strategy in the game revolves around how players manage their character’s actions in relation to those of opponents.

The system allows an extremely wide range of options, the GMs primary role ahead of running a game is to make decisions about what options will be used from the rulebook and to provide players with reasonably detailed guidelines for players on how to build their characters.  HERO does not have built-in guidelines (no 1^st level wizards) and so it falls to the GM to ensure such context exists.

Is it possible?  Obviously not the powers system.  Is it possible to get across what the core system is and how it works.

I think, if we can, it would be a useful intro to any HERO book.  giving folk a solid foundation on which to build the detail of the system that comes later.

On 2/12/2020 at 2:25 AM, Brian Stanfield said:

Maybe a game could start with the 10 page game summary from HERO Basic's introduction, and then move into the rules, before returning to character generation. I'm not satisfied with this, but it seems like something could be tried. 

Here is a challenge.  Explain HERO in a post shorter than what Duke normally posts.

Am gonna go and sit in front of my computer to see if I can explain HERO in 300 words or less.  Actually, I will start a new thread on this...

7 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

Looking at the actual rules (6e Vol 2 p 70):

Hoorah! !  I knew someone would do that eventually.

👏👏👏👏

😁

I obviously need to actually go and read something but, this IS the internet, so I am going to go in uninformed and argue a position! 🙂

I think you might be getting it wrong, based on what you said.  Your first post said that the effective STR for CV calculations was halved.  That does not sound like you are getting half strength damage.  It sounds like it is saying using a weapon this way is inherently less accurate, as if you were under-strength to use that weapon.  I think if you charge and punch someone you get full STR + manoeuvre damage, if you charge and hit someone with a spear you get full damage + manoeuvre damage, just with a bit less chance to hit.

(Obviously I await contradiction as I am speaking without looking at the rulebook!)

Doc

On 2/23/2020 at 2:34 PM, Tywyll said:

So I guess I always had the 4th ed rules stuck in my head but I just noticed that in 5th and 6th if you do either Move X maneuvers with a weapon your STR  is halved for CV modifier based on STR min. Anyone have any idea why that is? It seems like the perfect maneuver for a spear charge or lance attack, so it seems really odd you suddenly can't hold your weapon?

I had to read this several times to make sure that I understood.

Then I thought, how many times when a knight holding a lance, lost it due to a collision?  Probably a lot.  Unless there were adjustments made to couch the lance and avoid the impact dragging it out of your grasp (harnesses and clasps etc) it is easy to see how you might lose your grasp of a weapon.  Even if you hit the target straight on, you could lose your grip, never mind when you are moving at a tangent to the weapon that suddenly hits resistance...

I think it kinda makes sense, though it is additional bureaucracy that you may not wish to deal with in-game.

Doc

1 hour ago, Tryskhell said:

Using concentration to shut down an always on power is a proposed alternative to paying the full END cost

Yup, but you have also gone that step further and made it inherent. 

It is a personal thing (meaning I like it!) that I want such things to be time limited and so only allow such things when the END costs will be a real feature and their ability to switch off the feature limiting enough to warrant their cost savings in the always on.  🙂

Doc

It looks to me like you have the classic resurrection that we have seen in a whole slew of builds.  Any one of them work here.

The interesting aspect is the time variable and potential roleplay aspect. I think the plane jumping aspects are entirely SFX.

I think every character should have some everyman contact with the Celestial plane.  They should be managing that through their actions.  When they die, they roll the contact and the result gives modifiers to how expensive, how long and how easy getting through the bureaucracy will be.

If you fail the roll by three then things are three steps up the time and wealth charts and skill checks take the same hit.

We are not talking failure here, the power implies the character IS meritorious enough to be returned to life, it's just how hard it is going to be to navigate the bureaucracy.

I think it would be nice to roleplay this.  Some officials may be so expensive to pay off, the character might have to defeat a monster in lieu of cash.

I am channelling the 70s TV show, Monkey here...

Doc

6 hours ago, Tryskhell said:

I bought him a complete invisibility to everything, no fringe, always on, inherent.

 

Unless the guy concentrates to become visible, he could just as well not be there at all, there's basically no way to crack into his cloak

Here is a problem for me as GM.  If it is indeed inherent, how does he shut it off?

I think you need some mechanic that allows him to spend END to push it into the background or have images that allow him to project himself for others to see (and remember).

Needn't cost a lot of points but it would square the circle.

Doc

7 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

You don't really need the Telepathy:

I had the telepathy for the circumstance where people did not even remember the details of conversations, perhaps not even that a conversation ever happened.

Recently read a book with a character just like this "The sudden appearance of hope" by Claire North.  Decent book.

Doc

I guess Tryskhell that we are asking you to tell us how you see it playing in-game.  An idea of the genre might help too.

🙂

Doc

I just noticed you did not ask to build it.  I think this is more of a talent than a perk. 

Work out the power, see how much that costs and then make a GM call.  You can write it down as Talent: forgettable.  X points.

Doc

Hmm.  There are a couple of ways round this.  If you were looking for something that made people not notice you were there, then you could take a limited form of invisibility.

If you want to have conversations with people they do not remember then you could have a very limited form of Telepathy.

The SFX of each are that people don't remember seeing, or talking with you.

All the details of the limitations would come with how it performed with in-game play.

Doc

6 minutes ago, Hugh Neilson said:

I would say those strong views are an excellent reason for a "what is this game about?" discussion.  Is it a game where the dice rule over all?  Is it one featuring mechanics which permit players, the GM or both to override the dice on occasion?  Or is the GM expected to rule with an iron fist, fudge if considered appropriate or let the dice fall where they may, at his personal whim?

This brings together this thread and the "what makes a complete game" thread.  Could you answer those questions for HERO as a whole? It would be MUCH more appropriate in the complete game books you were talking about because so many decisions about the game style would already have been made.  🙂

Doc

I put forward Too sexy by Right Said Fred.

"I'm too sexy for this song"  abrupt end.

🙂

3 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

I would like a quick head count of the number of people here arguing about roleplaying is and is not, and which of you agreed that we have no need to put the "what is roleplaying" section into roleplaying games.

 

 

Thank you, and good night, All.

 

 

 

 

I would put my hand up. 

I think that there is a useful purpose in showing folk what roleplaying is, I just don't think that it is a good use of rulebook pages.

I would also say that, given the vehemence of the discussion here, you better be VERY careful about your description because there are extremely divergent and strongly held views on the matter.

I still posit that more material, written and video, would be better.

Doc

3 hours ago, Ninja-Bear said:

I would say that if he built duplicates that dissolve with a touch then they aren’t “killed” and loses points. 

So each duplicate should be built with the complication Accidental Change: recombines when it takes any STUN or BODY?

It is a tenet of capitalism that poor businesses will fail.  I am content for that to be the case of companies selling widgets and media.  I am much less comfortable when those companies are selling education, healthcare and critical infrastructure...

Doc

I think you are now heavily into Duplication.  It should be reasonably expensive as you want to multiply the number of actions you get in a round, all under your control, replicating your powers.

as a GM I dislike one player being able to take more than seven or eight actions in a round, especially if everyone else only has three or four actions.  I even persuaded one of my players to take his SPD 12 speedster down to SPD 9 and only that far because I knew he was likely going to need 2 or 3 phases of recovering during a fight every turn.

Duplication also ramps up the number of actions per turn which can seriously slowdown a game and make other players get much less spotlight during the game.

Doc

PS:  the problem with floating locations is that they belong to the person using the power, not to others.  I might be inclined to charge more for locations that could be used by other characters.  Indeed, the additional utility might warrant substantial increases but would need to think hard about numbers for that.

Doc

3 hours ago, zslane said:

the HERO System is not a good system for people who have never played TTRPGs before. It should not try to become a gateway game for that demographic.

I would caveat that.  HERO is probably not for a group where NOONE has played TTRPGs before.  Given a good GM with HERO experience, willing to put in some groundwork, it is no worse than any other game.

Doc

Well, if all you are looking for is to misdirect the enemy, and give alternate sources of power, you could have bonus DCV with a limited short range TP (any of the images could, when images resolve into one, be the original character) and a naked indirect advantage to put on your other powers.

Lots of things to do, once you define the gameplay you need.  THEN you wrap the SFX round those.

Doc