Doc Democracy

2 hours ago, Tech said:

If I recall the benchmarks correctly, the average was CV 7-9, 11d6 attacks, 20-25 in defense and speed was 5.5.

OK.  MY classic default benchmarks. 😁

smoelf, you should dial it all back. Buy the first edition Fantasy Hero pdf from the store and see if you can run that.  It IS a complete game and was written to be played from that one book.  Ignore the 6E right now.

Fantasy HERO is easy to get your head round.

In fact, ignore that, buy Justice Inc, my favourite of the complete games.  It is a simple task to play some pulp.  When you have played that a few times and gotten your head round the basics in there, the 6E books then just open up the opportunities to do more, or add to what you have been doing. 

You've gotta get your toes wet but you should not need to go out your depth to do that.  Not now all those PDFs are just sitting there...

Doc

42 minutes ago, Tywyll said:

I guess the grass is always greener!

It was helped by the fact that girls in Nashville were FASCINATED by my accent.  I was exotic and I got WAY more attention than I ever did back home.  Gives a place a kind of shine in the memory.  🙂

1 minute ago, Tywyll said:

Couldn't have wished for a better family away from family! 😇

It's cold, but that's preferable to the sweltering humidity of TN! I'll take cold any day!

But I spent almost two years in Nashville, doing post-doctoral research in Meharry Medical College...I was very taken with the TN weather and, for me, it even decided to snow for two days...

20 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

And by repeating what was done in 3e and 4e, we set ourselves up for an all-inclusive 7e.   

I'm not picking at you, Doc; I have never had an issue with genre- or adventure-specific rules or suggestions. 

 

I just wanted to say "do you want another encyclopedia?  Because that's how you get encyclopedias." 

 

 

 

 

 I think you missed the point - I was not suggesting more rules.  I was suggesting the basic use of the rules to create a game in a particular way.  You might create an Arthurian adventure with the stuff you need to run that in Part 1 of the supplement.  Part 2 would be the game set-up to run an Arthurian game and advice to players on creating their characters for that game, possibly even a checklist that could be given to players about what rules are or are not being used.

Essentially doing the legwork for a GM wanting to run that kind of game with a little bit of discussion on why.

Obviously GMs could use that as was or just a bloody good start...

Doc

49 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

 

What Doc said.  Mystique's power is Disguise.  Or rather, her "power" is the special effects of Disguise. 

 

 

I liken the use of Shapeshift to how people use Invisibility to be a super-powered version of stealth.

My concern is the infinite loop of two swordsmen with ripostes leading to a rapid flurry that end only when one of them is in a bloody pool on the floor....

Yeah, you need to police triggers pretty closely.  I am pretty harsh on what I allow in my games.

8 minutes ago, Shoug said:

Than what is the cost of the power to effortlessly obscure your identity and/or commandeer another one? You're saying Mystique's power is all just the special effect of her "being."? Just because her nature is that she changes her appearance into anything she desires, it should be free because it's just special effects?

I think it all breaks along utility lines.

If you are shapeshifting like Fariik the Magician on the Arabian Knights cartoon "Strength of an ELEPHANT!" simply to gain a strength boost (not to walk around like an elephant to fool folk) then you are looking at that shapeshift being purely SFX.

If you are shapeshifting like Mystique, who is really doing a super-powered version of disguise then you are looking at the shapeshift being a power.  Another example is Odo from DS9 who shifts into chairs etc and snoops on people, is again a power that you want to pay for.

It is all down to the HERO fundamentals of what are you trying to achieve mechanically - you buy that and pay for it, then wrap SFX round it.  You can sometimes flex those SFX to achieve other things but that should be less effective either in impact or in how long you can do it than buying the power outright.

So Farik and Mystique both change into an elephant.  Both look like an elephant but Fariq has the strength to push down that tree while Mystique does not.  However, I would say that Fariq will have more tell-tales that he is not an elephant to anyone that looks at him than Mystique and be less able to use the form to sneak into the zoo...

Doc

You know, HERO had a kind of thing for a while, adventures did not just give something for the GM to run but added something to the system, like Scourge of the Deep gave rules and hints about adventuring under water.

It would be a great thing if we published adventures which had two purposes.  One would be something to run.  The other would be advice on setting the game up for a particular game style.

So instead of a 24 page adventure book, you get a 48 page supplement.  These could build into a library of guidance on games to play using HERO.

This is something short of complete games, or games in a book but might meet Shoug's type of need.  A helping hand on setting the game up to play the adventure if that is the style of game you want.

I SO want to do something Hall of Champions related.  I need to get my group on this....we must have the skills between us to get something workable (including typesetting, design, ideas and artwork).

Doc

This is a fantastic graphic to show people questioning lock down and social distancing...

6 hours ago, Duke Bushido said:

With this build; yes.  This build wasn't the cheapest thing ever done with End Reserve, but it still made the power work as described.

And that comes back to my original statement.

17 hours ago, Doc Democracy said:

If the pool and absorption was just bureaucracy and the limited use was reflected in a limitation, then I agree it is a decent way to administer it.

You asked me what I meant. I meant, put the pool in there as part of the power and decide how much its use limits the power.  You might decide not at all, and just give it for free, you might award a -1/4 limitation.

Doc

10 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

That_ is what you are paying for: a sort of insurance that this power will _always_ work, no matter how drained the character himself may be.

How much have you paid here? It doubled the cost of the power.  I could have it on constantly by paying 0 END, for +1/2 and putting the same limitation of only for four phases after being hit with fire gives me Hugh's build at reduced cost.

I DO use END reserve for lots of things, the examples you give are exactly the kind of thing it is useful for.  In this instance it is being used to limit a power, I am still itching!!! 🙂

Doc

I dont believe I am, once again playing point bingo with Hugh.  I never win this kind of thing with anyone!!

5 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

 

Forgive me, but can you elaborate on your meaning in the second sentence?  The first sentence sounds pretty much like Hugh suggested, but the second sentence suggests an issue that I am not seeing / understanding.  

I am saying that the damage shield is limited in its use and you are buying an END battery to reduce its utility.  So effectively spending points to limit the utility of the damage shield.  It always makes my skin itch.  I love it as a mechanic as it gives you the bureaucracy you want to manage the power but you are spending points to do it. 

7 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

How long have I been mis-using damage  shield?  Area Effect Surface?  Okay, you can't possibly answer that, can't you?       I know that AOE Surface  _exists_; I've just never required it on a damage shield.  Since you can turn around and hit an opponent with a brick at no charge, I've always let Damage Shield just work on someone making contact with you.  Am I breaking a rule, or did a rule change?  Or has "Damage Shield" just been renamed AOE: Surface.

It is pretty much just folding Damage shield into the Area of Effect advantage.  I think (though I never used it often) it is pretty much the same price.

So for detail (put my hands on my books)

8 DC attack, AoE Surface (+1/4) (50 AP) 4 recoverable charges that last 2 phases (-1/4), no range (-1/2) - 29 points.  Now this IS a bit less effective than yours.  It would only kick back four times for every time that it gets activated.  However, he should not be able to choose to hold the charges back, so I will apply the same NCC you use for yours (-1) which means I can get it for 18 points, or decide to up the number of charges.

Not quite the same power, different utilities but in most play situations they play out pretty similarly.  Is the added utility of the no charge counting equal to the extra points used?  In the 18 point version he has 8 phases (or four damage causing segments) of damage shield when he gets attacked.  Your guy gets one phase for every 7 BOD absorbed, so 8 phases if he absorbs 56 BOD....

Doc

well, you put NCC on the first and not the second, the player does not get to choose when to use the continuing charge, there is only one.  I think your -1/2 limitation is a bit stingy.  🙂  I also note that for the second, you make it persistent but not the first...

I think RAW might not be so overpriced....

1 hour ago, Hugh Neilson said:

I am thinking a Damage Shield operated off of an END reserve which is charged by Absorption from Fire or Electricity.  It should receive a -2 limitation for No Conscious Control - it starts automatically, and runs until the reserve is depleted so, while predictable, the character does not control its activation.  The reserve starts at 0 and has no recovery.

My concern about this is that you are paying for a limitation.  Instead of working all the time it works if an END pool (that you have paid points for)  is charged by Absorption (which you have paid points for).

If the pool and absorption was just bureaucracy and the limited use was reflected in a limitation, then I agree it is a decent way to administer it.

Right, you have a narrative description.  Can you refine that into what you want in game terms?

Right now, I am immediately thinking that he has a damage shield with one continuous charge that resets whenever he is hit with electricity/fire.  So in game terms that means he damages anyone who touches him or that he touches.

That's it.

Is there more game effect you want?  Does it allow him to push the energy out? Does it allow him to damage lots of folk at once?  Does it affect people simply near him rather than those who manage to touch him?

Lots of questions that might influence the build.

Doc

My favourite build for homing missiles is continuous uncontrollable bought to 0 END.  You fire three missiles, the attacks continue each round until three hits have been achieved or the missiles (the attack is bought with physical manifestation) have been destroyed.  You could also put limitations on it to allow missiles to be decoyed away or made to lose targeting.

Doc

So much advice, to the rest of us, all of it makes sense.  🙂

When a player comes to me with a character I often ask particular questions.  These are benchmark stuff.  As GM, I would set the benchmarks for the campaign and I would expect every character to exceed some, meet others and fall short on the rest.

So.  Before getting round to building you answer questions such as, are his attacks average for a superhero, better? much better? Worse? Much worse??

Same for attacks per round, normal defences, special defences, combat movement, non+combat movement, mental abilities, exotic attacks.

This gives you a broad idea of how you see the character playing in relation to others.

As a character your key powers (punch, move) are pretty easy.  You buy hand attack and run.  The defining features of characters are often the minor powers.  Such as being able to deform your body to get through small gaps, or reaching Across large spaces, or bouncing projectiles back at an opponent.

HERO excels at doing this kind of detail stuff.

Folk on the forums might struggle to give advice without knowing benchmarks.  I am an old-timer and so tend to fall back on classic default superhero benchmarks of 7 combat value, 12D6 attacks, 20 defences, speed 5.

Doc

18 minutes ago, pbemguy said:

I love your ideas, and you just made this thread 10x better.

And 10x longer... 🙂

I'd hate Duke to get some time on his hands.  God knows how many more words we would have to read!!!!

Shapeshift is always a questionable issue.  It is OBVIOUS your shape has changed.  It is not obvious that your current shape is not your original one.

How do the SFX rules come into this.  I would rule that, in Duke's example, there would be obvious SFX like Gar Logan's (Beast Boy) animals all being green.  With Shapeshift the rules for noticing are in the power (and part of Duke's issues with the power).

15 years in Auld Reekie.  It’s a cold cold place. 🙂

hope they are treating you well, at least you married west coast. 😇

Doc

21 minutes ago, Duke Bushido said:

Why the Hell is one of these just automatically wrong? 

I have used this construct for a long time. My issue, as GM, is that players push the envelope always.

My players began using the animal forms as ways of fooling folk.  Who would think that a sparrow was a superhero?  What chance does the super-powered lookout have to spot that the oncoming sparrow is Captain Multiform?  SFX of powers have to be obvious to more than one sense, does your construct meet that?  If the sparrow is trapped in a cage can Captain Multiform escape by changing into a rhino?  Or does the cage prevent that happening?  The bars crushing a growing sparrow before the armour and strength of the rhino come into play??

playing devil’s advocate simply because these are some of the issues I have had to adjudicate on...

Doc

How about this?

15D6 continuous, uncontrollable Blast, variable SFX, 0 END.  1 recoverable charge.  Only when character takes damage.  Only STUN and BODY delivered to character. Only SFX of attack that hit character.

I am inclined to wrap the last three up into a no conscious control equivalent.

So what you have is an attack that lingers, doing damage whenever the character takes damage.  He can only affect one person at a time and there needs to be a reasonable way for the target to get rid of the curse.

Doc