Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

[Boll Weevil]

I saw Watchmen this weekend and really liked it. I read the comics back in 1987 and had a recurring thought while I was reading that was reborn while watching the movie.

 

Imagine if you will: You are starting a Champions campaign, circa 1986. You come up with a pretty interesting campaign world and invite your friends to play. As you go around the table, each player describes the character that he/she would like to play. One player, a batman fan, comes up with a legacy gadgeteer with an owl theme. Next player shows the group a cool picture he drew of his detective character with a cool amorphous mask motif. As he describes his character you wonder if you should have been more specific as to the tone of the campaign as he is a bit violent compared to Owl Guy. Your campaign starts with a murder mystery so maybe he will fit right in.

Next player shows you his character sheet. While the other characters bought a lot of skills to flesh out their characters, Tony bought every power in the book...AND a lot of skills. Suddenly the player who wrote up a normal + 15 points of Martial Arts is starting to doubt her choice of character. While you are starting to panic that Tony has ruined your game, you look down at the character sheet he gave you. The picture he drew is the line-art figure that came with the blank character sheet template but colored blue. He even added tiny blue wedding tackle. "Oh come on!!" you yell as you get up from the table.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Source Material is generally a really bad starting place for gaming.

 

In fact - avoid it at all costs.

 

 

Because Source Material has something Gaming Group will never ever have - writer's fiat.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Source Material is generally a really bad starting place for gaming.

 

In fact - avoid it at all costs.

 

 

Because Source Material has something Gaming Group will never ever have - writer's fiat.

 

+1

 

Gaming and whatever the source material you're looking at, be it comics, TV, movies, books, whatever, are different media and operate under different rules.

[Vulcan]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

I look at the Watchmen and see a PC group - plus a bug blue plot-hook NPC...

[nexus]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

I look at the Watchmen and see a PC group - plus a bug blue plot-hook NPC...

 

Agreed. Dr.Manhattan wouldn't, IMO, by a PC. He's the Macguffin, a plot device for the GM to work with and explain some setting elements. Same thing with Ozy, IMO.

 

Rorschach, Silk Spectre and Night Owl are all about the roughly equivalent level you'd see in a PC group. The other deceased and incapacitated Watchmen did too.

 

Edit: Of course some games have run very well with massive differences in power between the PCs. It takes a high level of maturity and a cooperative spirit between the players, a solid narrative that everyone wants to see completed and a GM that knows how to balance out screen time so no one ends up looking a side kick, IMO. It can be done but its not an easy job.

[Certified]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Agreed. Dr.Manhattan wouldn't, IMO, by a PC. He's the Macguffin, a plot device for the GM to work with and explain some setting elements. Same thing with Ozy, IMO.

 

Rorschach, Silk Spectre and Night Owl are all about the roughly equivalent level you'd see in a PC group. The other deceased and incapacitated Watchmen did too.

 

Edit: Of course some games have run very well with massive differences in power between the PCs. It takes a high level of maturity and a cooperative spirit between the players, a solid narrative that everyone wants to see completed and a GM that knows how to balance out screen time so no one ends up looking a side kick, IMO. It can be done but its not an easy job.

 

The question I have is would it be running a Parallel story with the original Minute Men and if so was the Comedian also a PC?

[Peregrine]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Source Material is generally a really bad starting place for gaming.

 

In fact - avoid it at all costs.

 

 

Because Source Material has something Gaming Group will never ever have - writer's fiat.

 

This is also why it is bad form for the GM to approach a game from the POV of "I have a great story to tell". If you have a great story to tell, write it. Post it to a website, distribute it to your gaming buddies via email, whatever. But don't inflict it on your gaming group and try to call it a game.

[Desert]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Both Vulcan and Nexus do have the best take on how it would be if someone did decide to try and run an actual Watchmen campaign. The thing is the story is set and if someone were to try and run such a thing, the characters could change so much by making a single choice. (An example would be if the second Nite Owl was at the first's house on halloween and fought the people who would have killed them, ending up getting himself hurt or potentially even arrested).

 

I did mention Watchmen as an alternate material source for a roleplaying campaign in a different thread, but I was thinking more along the lines of running some sort of fall out story line. How the people react after Rorschach's journal is published and the truth of the even is exposed.

 

Base material itself as a source is a bad idea. It's too linear and if you try to keep to the source too much, it's railroading the player. Using it as a basis to an open ended campaign with some strong points from the material used however, could be quite interesting.

[Markdoc]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Yeah, I can easily see watchman as gaming group fodder. The first campaign, featuring two-fisted pulp heroes ends as players move on or PCs die. The GM takes a few of the surviving PCs, makes them NPCs and starts a new game. This time the tone is grittier, the heroes have more points - but also more disad.s - and he's added a high points uber-NPC, who one of the PCs has a contact.

 

He also adds some plot twists. Comedian - a former PC - gets killed right at the start of the game, as a hook to bring our hero team into the action. Night Owl I, another former PC is killed (as a red herring) as the game progresses. Later, one of the PCs (Silk Spectre II) discovers her predecessor (and now DNPC) has a dark secret that may have a bearing on the Comedian's death. As the game goes on, the PCs try to contact the one remaining NPC from the old group, to see if he can help, or if they can protect him - and discover that Ozymandias - former boy wonder - has become a villian. In the big showdown that ends the campaign, Rorschach plays out his psych. lim.s and gets stomped by the GM's Uber-NPC.

 

With the right group, it'd be dynamite!

 

And seriously, in the first long Champions campaign, our group played, the big baddie turned out to be a long-respected hero (the game's version of Captain America). He gave us a good run for our money even though we way outpowered him physically, because we implicitly trusted him (I mean, hey! Captain America!) - we even told him what our plans were ... When the big reveal happened:

a) it was a crowning moment of awesome - everyone was stunned.

we ended up smashing his organization - but he got away and we told no-one. In an echo of Watchmen - which hadn't even been published at that point - we figured that covering up his dirty little secret would be better for everyone than revealing it.

 

So yeah, it could work.

 

cheers, Mark

[bubba smith]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

dc comics and mayfair games did a watchmen adventure for the dc comics role playing game i used to own a copy it had the pc gatered for a mission by capt metropolis who unknown to the others was behind the whole thing

[boomer]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

I actually played in a Con game where one of the players brought his own character; his version of Night Owl...his tagline was "I am the Night Owl, I never sleep" and he bought "Life Support: Doesn't need to sleep"....... other than that, he was a gadgeteer just like in the GN. We find inspiration from source materials, but don't make it "just like" the source material. In our Fantasy Hero campaign, we used a magic system similar to Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time where our magic users were called "Channelers"...but, unlike Jordan's, Males weren't nuts from channeling the male side of things, there was no female/male side of the Source...there was just the Source. You randomly rolled up what flows you were proficient at, then designed your "weaves" based on that.

[DocMan]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Actually, if you think about what Dr. Manhattan actually does in the movie (I haven't read the graphic novel), he's a lot like Gandalf: he doesn't use most of the powers he's alleged to have. We have:

 

1. Teleport, Megascale, can scale down, usable by others

2. Transform normal person into bursting balloon of guts.

3. Regeneration from death.

4. Telekinesis.

5. Prescience/recognition, always on.

6. Growth.

7. Multiform.

 

That is pretty much it. Or maybe flight is in there, too. You could build this in a typical 350 point character. On top of that, Dr. Manhatten was slow. Everyone else reacted a lot faster than he did.

 

And playing characters at different point levels shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as the characters treat each other as equals, and they are built to the same standard. If everyone has approximately 60 point attacks, it shouldn't matter if one character has more variety in their repertoire.

 

Doc

[JmOz]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Actually, if you think about what Dr. Manhattan actually does in the movie (I haven't read the graphic novel), he's a lot like Gandalf: he doesn't use most of the powers he's alleged to have. We have:

 

1. Teleport, Megascale, can scale down, usable by others

2. Transform normal person into bursting balloon of guts.

3. Regeneration from death.

4. Telekinesis.

5. Prescience/recognition, always on.

6. Growth.

7. Multiform.

 

That is pretty much it. Or maybe flight is in there, too. You could build this in a typical 350 point character. On top of that, Dr. Manhatten was slow. Everyone else reacted a lot faster than he did.

 

And playing characters at different point levels shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as the characters treat each other as equals, and they are built to the same standard. If everyone has approximately 60 point attacks, it shouldn't matter if one character has more variety in their repertoire.

 

Doc

 

I don't remember Multiform, their was a (If you are a jerk GM) use of shapeshift to darken his hue and Duplication was used in the sex scene

[Split Decision]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Dr. Manhattan isn't a character- he's a plot device.

 

He literally has no motivation as we understand the term.

 

He has no interest in what's going on in the terms we would ascribe to a character- it is implied that his actions are completely predetermined. Furthermore it can be inferred that the only difference between the other heroes and Dr. M is that he knows he's going through the motions. But this super-sentience makes all the difference in the world when it comes to determining whether he's a character (PC, GMPC or NPC) or another kind of object.

[assault]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

You could build this in a typical 350 point character.

 

This brings a smile to my lips.

 

A playable Dr Manhattan! Sweet!

[CoreBrute]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Actually, if you think about what Dr. Manhattan actually does in the movie (I haven't read the graphic novel), he's a lot like Gandalf: he doesn't use most of the powers he's alleged to have. We have:

 

1. Teleport, Megascale, can scale down, usable by others

2. Transform normal person into bursting balloon of guts.

3. Regeneration from death.

4. Telekinesis.

5. Prescience/recognition, always on.

6. Growth.

7. Multiform.

 

That is pretty much it. Or maybe flight is in there, too. You could build this in a typical 350 point character. On top of that, Dr. Manhatten was slow. Everyone else reacted a lot faster than he did.

 

And playing characters at different point levels shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as the characters treat each other as equals, and they are built to the same standard. If everyone has approximately 60 point attacks, it shouldn't matter if one character has more variety in their repertoire.

 

Doc

 

I'm sorry, but unless you use a VPP, I don't see that happening. But by all means, if you can figure out how to build this character with 350 points by all means.

 

I think Dr Manhatten has more then 60 point attacks. Obliterating people the way he does, is way too powerful.

 

But he is a very cool idea, and maybe he should be in my Teen Champions game...

 

As a plot device of course.

[assault]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

I'm sorry' date=' but unless you use a VPP, I don't see that happening. But by all means, if you can figure out how to build this character with 350 points by all means.[/quote']

 

350 might actually be a little too low. The point is, though, that the actual abilities shown wouldn't cost all that much. (I'd use a Multipower, and leave some powers outside it.)

 

Making him into a viable PC would take more work, since PCs need to allow for unknown situations, and therefore need to be more balanced. In this case, that would involve substantial defences. (They're only omitted in the current list because they aren't explicitly shown.)

 

A "starter" Dr Manhattan homage could be built on remarkably few points. A more "complete" one would require a lot more. One with all his claimed, but not shown, powers would cost - a lot.

 

I think Dr Manhatten has more then 60 point attacks. Obliterating people the way he does, is way too powerful.

 

Killing normals isn't all that expensive. Even Rorschach didn't have much in the way of defences.

 

6D RKA (90 points) if you insist, then. 21 BOD on an average attack. It probably wouldn't immediately turn Rorschach to a stain in the snow, but if it was pushed, and with decent damage rolls...

 

Yes, in theory he should have more, but we are restricting it to what was actually shown.

 

But he is a very cool idea, and maybe he should be in my Teen Champions game...

 

As a plot device of course.

 

Oh yeah. Or, better yet, in a PS238 game.

 

...

 

The thing to remember is that Dr M was a homage to Captain Atom. I'm tempted to go back to the original and fuse the two somewhat.

[Vulcan]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Actually, if you think about what Dr. Manhattan actually does in the movie (I haven't read the graphic novel), he's a lot like Gandalf: he doesn't use most of the powers he's alleged to have. We have:

 

1. Teleport, Megascale, can scale down, usable by others

2. Transform normal person into bursting balloon of guts.

3. Regeneration from death.

4. Telekinesis.

5. Prescience/recognition, always on.

6. Growth.

7. Multiform.

 

That is pretty much it. Or maybe flight is in there, too. You could build this in a typical 350 point character. On top of that, Dr. Manhatten was slow. Everyone else reacted a lot faster than he did.

 

And playing characters at different point levels shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as the characters treat each other as equals, and they are built to the same standard. If everyone has approximately 60 point attacks, it shouldn't matter if one character has more variety in their repertoire.

 

Doc

 

Don't forget the level defenses. It was pretty much assumed (even if it was never shown) that none of the others could possibly even stun him, much less KO him.

[Split Decision]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

How would you model "utterly un-botherable"? Something like XDM with everything purchased Transdimensional?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Doc is almost a casebook example of

 

Desolidified; Persistent, 0END, Always On, Inherent (affected by Intrinsic Fields)

 

with Affects Real World on his STR and one helluva Transform and KA almost with a Teleport Mulitpower.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Actually, if you think about what Dr. Manhattan actually does in the movie (I haven't read the graphic novel), he's a lot like Gandalf: he doesn't use most of the powers he's alleged to have. We have:

 

1. Teleport, Megascale, can scale down, usable by others

2. Transform normal person into bursting balloon of guts.

3. Regeneration from death.

4. Telekinesis.

5. Prescience/recognition, always on.

6. Growth.

7. Multiform.

 

That is pretty much it. Or maybe flight is in there, too. You could build this in a typical 350 point character. On top of that, Dr. Manhatten was slow. Everyone else reacted a lot faster than he did.

 

While I know for a fact you can build a decent Dr Manhattan homage on 350 points, you're skipping quite a few powers that he demonstrates in the movie:

 

- Flight (Levitation at least)

- Duplication (at least 3 at once, all acting quite independently)

- Desolidification (coffee mug flies right through his head)

- Force Fields/Force Walls (protected himself and Laurie from the shattered glass)

- the ability to create a flying clock tower thing out of dirt and rocks (probably a Summon or Transform)

- assorted Life Support (which he can use on others)...

 

And quite a few other stunts, like disassembling the tank and then crush it into a little ball (probably not going to pull that off with just TK... might be able to do it with the Anything to Anything Major Transform that he probably builds the clock with...)

 

This is not even touching on stuff he says he can do (walk on the sun, observe microscopic events that take place in nanoseconds, create life, etc...) or any of his skills (which may be incredibly vast or very basic, depending on interpretation...)

[Bloodstone]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Don't forget the level defenses. It was pretty much assumed (even if it was never shown) that none of the others could possibly even stun him' date=' much less KO him.[/quote']

 

Well, for what you see in the movie he really doesn't need that high of defenses to be "Invulnerable" to the rest of the party.

 

The other PC's aren't throwing around 30 DC attacks. Most of them probably are in the 6-10 range tops. Remember, Ozymandias is the most bad ass fighter of them all and he's almost laid out by a 2d6 RKA and a short tumble down a flight of stairs

[Korvar]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

- the ability to create a flying clock tower thing out of dirt and rocks (probably a Summon or Transform)

 

That was just a special effect of taking the points from his base in the weapons research facility and putting them into his new Mars base...

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

Suasano wrote Dr. Manhattan up, and did a fine job, but I wouldn't bother as a GM. He is so clearly not a PC. He is a plot device as stated previously here.

 

A Watchmen bcampaign would be fun for like two sessions unless you changed the tone significantly. There is no purpose to anyone's actions. There is not victory to be achieved. What would be the desired end stateof this game? The only peolpe who would have any fun are the people playing The Comedian and Rorshach, and they would get on everyone else's nerves pretty fast. Damn munchkins.

[nexus]

Re: Watchmen: A GM's tale...or why we set campaign limits

 

One of the major problems when writing up a fictional character is trying to strike a balance between what they're are explicitly shown doing and what it's implied they can. Dr Manhattan doesn't do a explicitly do much that's -really- outrageous* directly but has many abilities: Demonstrates some TK, Transform, big IPE RKA, extensive teleportation, regenerates from "Death", Growth, Life Support (that he can extend to others), force fields and walls, pre and post cognition (limited ot his own timeline and slightly vague, things don't always happen exactly as he sees them, susceptible to tachyon interference) and effective invulnerability to anything that thrown at him (which isn't much directly shown in the story). It's implied his powers are MUCH more diverse and potent though. He seems to be one a character that would have be scaled for the campaign he's going to be used for or, more likely, left as a plot device beyond some guesstimate abilities for use if absolutely nessecary.