Slow Seeking Attack

[Black Rose]

Despite how disjointed the name sounds, there is a method to my madness.

 

How would you describe an attack (think an orange-sized ball of electricity) that travels at a walking pace (about 6m per phase) in a straight line toward its target, but is unaffected by (and does not affect) any material obstacles... unless they are conductive metal? It could casually pass through a mountain to hit its target, but chicken wire would cause it to pop.

 

I think Indirect for the avoiding of barriers, but how would you do the slow advance?

Edited May 20, 2022 by Black Rose
forgot an element

[Steve]

It sounds like a form of Extra Time to me.

[SCUBA Hero]

...maybe No Range and Mobile for the slow advance???...

[Christopher R Taylor]

YOu can build it as extra time but I made up a "seeking" attack advantage I'll try to remember to share when I'm at my writing laptop again.

[Simon]

Depends on the specifics of the effect -- if you launch it at a target within LoS, then it's just Delayed Effect...it'll follow and track after the intended target until it catches up to them and does the damage that you sucessfully targetted and rolled initially. 

If you can target it on someone that you cannot see (e.g. someone 3 miles away inside of an armored bunker), you need to bundle in the means to perceive, target, and damage the victim along with the Delayed Effect.

[unclevlad]

The ground will conduct, so I'm not sure the electrical SFX would be what you'd want.  Plus, even passing through wood walls is breaking a metarule...walls break line of effect.

 

How long would this last...can the attack be used indefinitely?  Or is it intended to be used against purely stationary targets?  Against a mobile target, 6m is really slow.  What's the SPD of this attack?

 

For me there are too many special rules that'll be needed to be worth the trouble, at least at this point.  I also have the feeling that paying for the advantages is going to make the active point cost untenable.

[Hugh Neilson]

There's always the Summon approach.  Build the pulsing  ball of energy and it goes after whoever it was told to target.

[unclevlad]

2 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

There's always the Summon approach.  Build the pulsing  ball of energy and it goes after whoever it was told to target.

 

That would solve some of the questions.  It's not a route I'd prefer to see used;  that could just be me, tho.  I would definitely be leery about any limitations that might get applied to the summoned...thingie...which might make this fairly expensive.  

 

Other point might be...how does it know its target?  If it's in LOS, no problem.  If not?

 

And this means I need to write up a full summoned critter sheet, for this?  Maybe I'm lazy, but for what amounts to a single-use attack power, that's a lot of work.

[Black Rose]

4 hours ago, Simon said:

Depends on the specifics of the effect -- if you launch it at a target within LoS, then it's just Delayed Effect...it'll follow and track after the intended target until it catches up to them and does the damage that you sucessfully targetted and rolled initially. 

If you can target it on someone that you cannot see (e.g. someone 3 miles away inside of an armored bunker), you need to bundle in the means to perceive, target, and damage the victim along with the Delayed Effect.

I admit that "Delayed Effect" reads as "use this for spells" in my head.

 

This would be for LOS combat, or at least on a battlefield. The effect is like a zombie or Terminator; inexorably making its way toward you -- you can't just outrun it or get behind a door, you must cleverly maneuver it into shorting itself out.

 

4 hours ago, unclevlad said:

The ground will conduct, so I'm not sure the electrical SFX would be what you'd want.  Plus, even passing through wood walls is breaking a metarule...walls break line of effect.

 

How long would this last...can the attack be used indefinitely?  Or is it intended to be used against purely stationary targets?  Against a mobile target, 6m is really slow.  What's the SPD of this attack?

 

For me there are too many special rules that'll be needed to be worth the trouble, at least at this point.  I also have the feeling that paying for the advantages is going to make the active point cost untenable.

Duration is about 1 minute, then it winks out. Assume SPD 3, so at 6m it's travelling about 18m/Turn, so 90m in a minute. Best used when the target must move around things to get away. I might bump the movement rate to 10m/Phase -- still slower than people running but makes obstacles more frustrating.

 

Think of it as "comic-book electricity". Like Magnetism or cosmic rays, it is an SFX wrapping paper around a ball of BODY and STUN damage.

 

9 hours ago, Christopher R Taylor said:

YOu can build it as extra time but I made up a "seeking" attack advantage I'll try to remember to share when I'm at my writing laptop again.

I'd really like to see that.

 

2 hours ago, Hugh Neilson said:

There's always the Summon approach.  Build the pulsing  ball of energy and it goes after whoever it was told to target.

Along with Transform "thin air into thing I want", I feel Summon "thing that does what I want" covers far too many sins.

[Hugh Neilson]

8 hours ago, Black Rose said:

I admit that "Delayed Effect" reads as "use this for spells" in my head.

 

 

I think the best approach is to look at "less than ideal" similar builds to get to a reasonable "limited power" limitation value.  Delayed effect would be one approach, but needs to consider that a "miss" would turn around and try again, not just wink out.

 

8 hours ago, Black Rose said:

This would be for LOS combat, or at least on a battlefield. The effect is like a zombie or Terminator; inexorably making its way toward you -- you can't just outrun it or get behind a door, you must cleverly maneuver it into shorting itself out.

 

That takes out a few issues, anyway.  Not sure why anyone would design a weapon like this, as it seems pretty inefficient for actual combat.  More the kind of thing a sadistic master villain uses on captured enemies in a public display of their execution.  Anyway, that sets some parameters.

 

8 hours ago, Black Rose said:

Duration is about 1 minute, then it winks out. Assume SPD 3, so at 6m it's travelling about 18m/Turn, so 90m in a minute. Best used when the target must move around things to get away. I might bump the movement rate to 10m/Phase -- still slower than people running but makes obstacles more frustrating.

 

OK, so once I fire it, the construct just keeps going after its target, until either it runs out of time or it gets shorted out.  This sounds like an attack with Limited Range, Constant and Uncontrolled, with "short out or run out of time" being the end condition for Constant Uncontrolled.  This will be overpriced as the attack can only hit once.

 

Hmmm... what about an AoE matching its maximum travel distance in a radius, Accurate, Delayed Effect model for pricing purposes.  That way, it does not need to hit the target's DCV if it catches up to him.  Delayed Effect is the pricing chalenge here as it could arrive quickly, or never arrive at all.

 

But this provides two benchmarks for pricing.

 

Physical Manifestation comes to mind, but I discard it as the energy globe can't be directly attacked with most other powers.

 

8 hours ago, Black Rose said:

Along with Transform "thin air into thing I want", I feel Summon "thing that does what I want" covers far too many sins.

 

Both tend towards "builds for things the system can't readily handle.  I might try that approach, but more as a pricing test than as the actual build.  However, it does handle the energy ball moving independently, possibly at a SPD other than the character using the attack, so it can handle effects not presently built into the system.  It avoids the "repeated attacks" issue for Constant, and the "what if it misses when it gets in range" question.  Slavishly Loyal with only one command - chase that target down and discharge into it - covers what it can do.  It would need to be Desolid (other than to things that discharge electricity) and its attack would need to Affect Solid World, so it would not be cheap.  Maybe its attack is a small AoE that encompasses both the target and itself, so discharging kills it.

 

Practically, if you have to track how long it sticks around, and move it on each of its phases after its target, it feels like a separate entity on the map anyway, so it will feel like a summoned whatsit.

 

Just musing...what if someone uses the same weapon to create an energy ball targeting the first energy ball?

[Grailknight]

I understand that you want the attack to build fear in it's target, but it needs to move faster. 18 meters/Turn cant catch a 0 point NPC that runs away and is no threat to any target that is not trapped in a limited are or pinned down by other threats. 

[unclevlad]

I'm not seeing how Delayed Effect comes into play.  6E1 332.  It's for powers with long setup times that can then be held and used quickly.  It's clearly a translation of D&D spell prep.  

 

This is Extra Time.  I agree, determining the value is hard.

 

Not sure you'd need slavishly loyal on the summon.  It doesn't have to destroy itself.  It simply "goes back home."  This would help, because I agree that it looks like desolid and therefore affects phys world will be necessary.  Those are STUPID expensive, and slavishly loyal *doubles* the summoning cost.  Even just considering the attack, APW means 1d6 costs 15...CP / 5 knocks that down to 3.  Slavish makes that 6 per die...just for the attack, and NOT counting anything else it might need like AoE 1 hex.  And you have to pay for the SPD, and the Desolid itself, and possibly Flight.  

 

You'll probably have to pay for Amicable to some level, I'll grant, but not necessarily slavish.  

[Christopher R Taylor]

OK here is the Seeking advantage  I worked up: be aware this is potentially very deadly, like Damage Over Time

 

SEEKING

Seeking Keeps trying to hit the target for x increments over y time period (similar cost structure to DOT, which it is heavily based upon).   Starts immediately upon the power being activated.  You must must roll to hit normally each increment.  No matter what modifiers you apply, the Seeking advantage cannot go below +¼ in value.

 

MOD	INCREMENTS
+0	1
+¼	2-3
+½	4-5
+¾	6-7
+1	8-10 +¼ increase for each 5 steps further
x2	Need not maintain line of sight
half	Cannot have more than one attack seeking at once
half	Attacker must channel attack

 

MOD	TIME BETWEEN ATTACKS
+1½	Segment
+1¼	Every other segment
+1	Every three segments
+¾	Every Four Segments
+½	Every Six Segments
+¼	Every Turn etc

 

Quote

There's always the Summon approach.  Build the pulsing  ball of energy and it goes after whoever it was told to target.

 

Yeah that's how I built the dancing sword kind of thing for Fantasy; its an invisible, intangible creature holding a sword and fighting with it as normal with affects real world etc.  Its a weird, complicated way to build it, but when you use it, its super easy.

 

[Hugh Neilson]

2 hours ago, unclevlad said:

I'm not seeing how Delayed Effect comes into play.  6E1 332.  It's for powers with long setup times that can then be held and used quickly.  It's clearly a translation of D&D spell prep.  

 

This is Extra Time.  I agree, determining the value is hard.

 

Not sure you'd need slavishly loyal on the summon.  It doesn't have to destroy itself.  It simply "goes back home."  This would help, because I agree that it looks like desolid and therefore affects phys world will be necessary.  Those are STUPID expensive, and slavishly loyal *doubles* the summoning cost.  Even just considering the attack, APW means 1d6 costs 15...CP / 5 knocks that down to 3.  Slavish makes that 6 per die...just for the attack, and NOT counting anything else it might need like AoE 1 hex.  And you have to pay for the SPD, and the Desolid itself, and possibly Flight.  

 

You'll probably have to pay for Amicable to some level, I'll grant, but not necessarily slavish.  

 

Extra Time normally means Extra Time to start the power, but it's probably still the better fit.  Not perfect, of course.

 

I believe Slavishly Loyal is required when Summoning something with no mind of its own, and I viewed the energy glob in that fashion.  Slap "1 charge" on that attack and the cost comes down quite a bit.  The Construct can sell back all Running and slap 0 END on its limited Flight. It has little need for many other stats, although if built as an Automaton, some will vanish anyway.  Given its focus, it could buy a Targeting "Detect Target" and sell all other senses back as well.  But that's the reason I would start with a few different builds - if one has a wide price disparity from the others, that outlier is likely not appropriate.

[unclevlad]

Ahh....I agree, the glob has no mind per se.  If that demands Slavish, that makes sense.  

 

1 charge on the attack is getting to be abusive fast.  It's tending to point out that this isn't a great approach, but that's also pointing out that there's NO particularly good approach.  

[Hugh Neilson]

I think pricing out various options would help because there is no great "RAW approach".

 

One charge will reduce the price, but many things increase the price, as you noted.  1 charge (-2) only offsets "Affects Solid World".  A normal character would get close, shut off Desolid and attack.  Can the user fire off multiple energy globes at once?  Need to pay for the ability to Summon multiple entities, Limited by One At A Time.  I'm not sure the Summon option will be the most cost-effective.  I think (intuit, not analyze) that a straight "fire and it either hits or misses; next phase, fire again" would be considerably more effective, so this should be cheaper, whatever the build.  If Summon comes out too expensive, it's the wrong build.

[Christopher R Taylor]

Its not that expensive to build a character with STR that affects physical world, wielding a weapon.  The expensive part is the automaton stuff.

[HeroGM]

In Champion's Powers (6e) they give an example of the Nega Beam (pg376). A Darksied Omega-Beam type effect that is written up as a summon (1.679 POINT summon!). You could take a look at that and see how it was written, tone it down for what you're looking for.