Western Champions. How Would You Run It?

[Mr. R]

I made two NPCs as an experiment for Steam Punk Supers:

 

Princess Alladina- From New York, she was going to be sacrificed by (insert cult) when a mystical being bonded with her, basically her Genie.  She is basically a normal with two abilities.  The first is she can summon a Genie (a 200 pt flying brick with resistant defenses and some regeneration).  The second is she can go invisible, but only after summoning her Genie (it is a SFX of people forgetting about her because they concentrate on the Genie).  Change the origin a bit, make it a spirit animal....

 

Voyantte- A precog with no conscious control.  BUT she can see short term into the future to make her a great gambler (she can see the roll before it is done, she is barred from many casinos) and investigator.  She also knows Savate and carries a re-enforced umbrella at all times (it acts as a club).  Also he precog makes her extremely hard to hit in combat as she can see what is about to happen (+5 to DCV).  Change the background a bit.....

[steriaca]

I believe I mentioned Lady Buckskin. She technically doesn't have any powers beyond being taught to "injun wrestle" and has some skill with the gun. Also being a school teacher in her civilian identity gives her various knowledge she can use to, well, do things (you'll be surprised how often knowing that if you add a little bit of Chemical 7 in water creates a temporary fog cloud, or a certain resin from a tree down yonder car create a sticky substance which can come in mighty handy).

[Khymeria]

1 hour ago, steriaca said:

Also being a school teacher in her civilian identity gives her various knowledge she can use to, well, do things (you'll be surprised how often knowing that if you add a little bit of Chemical 7 in water creates a temporary fog cloud, or a certain resin from a tree down yonder car create a sticky substance which can come in mighty handy).

Would you suggest handling this with skill rolls and more like equipment, or a small active point multipower, or VPP, with either charges or some mechanism to control portions? I found when trying out formulas for Gaslight: Horror and Heroics in the Victorian Era that the VPP actually worked to control this best with the Gadget Talent. There is a lot of ways to get there but I always like hearing what other people would use and why.

[LoneWolf]

Use a VPP not skill rolls.  Unless you are going to allow all characters to be able to use skills like this it is unfair that one character gets this ability while other do not.  If you give it to every character than all characters are going to be highly educated.  When you do that the character is no longer unique.   

[GDShore]

I do not think that this is unfair, the school marm' with her education is not smarter than the plainsman just different. I doubt that she could track a snake across the prairie or find water when it is needed. The knowledge she has "worked" for is not common or often appreciated.

[Khymeria]

1 hour ago, GDShore said:

I do not think that this is unfair, the school marm' with her education is not smarter than the plainsman just different. I doubt that she could track a snake across the prairie or find water when it is needed. The knowledge she has "worked" for is not common or often appreciated.

I read that as if you allow the school marm to do this then you better come up with a whole lot of other options for other characters that can really let them get "above and beyond" with their skills as well. Which I view as a lot of work for something that is probably better handled as powers and sometimes talents and perhaps Requires A Skill Roll. In Gaslight, there is a talent, mostly geared at the Academic template, that allows the scholar to point out little known facts, which can Drain 1 1/2D6 one Characteristic if a skill roll is made. With One Use At A Time, it is a really generic way to just simulate how skills can help in a cinematic way and allows the smart character to get involved in a big way. This is much easier than coming up with a whole bunch of cool uses for each skill, especially Knowledge or Profession which are kind of endless. It would be cool to see a campaign that really revolved around skills and had a whole bunch of this, perhaps some sort of Ocean's 11 style game. 

[GDShore]

There is a saying "that knowledge is power" but knowledge is not a power. Anyone who applies themselves to the effort can acquire knowledge and can learn a range of things that can be applied in many ways. The character will come up with their own uses for this set of skills. There was a character in a Justice Inc. campaign that never failed to amaze and astound when we played by applying their knowledge skills. Somewhat like the "Man of Bronze -- Doc Savage",

[Khymeria]

16 minutes ago, GDShore said:

There was a character in a Justice Inc. campaign that never failed to amaze and astound when we played by applying their knowledge skills. Somewhat like the "Man of Bronze -- Doc Savage",

Was the player creative, clever, and intelligent? The one thing I would concern myself with is players who aren't as smart, skilled, or clever as their characters. I guess it is different as well if you are sticking to real world sort of uses like "this mud soothes burns and staunches blood flow from some wounds when applied" or are using a more Star Trek word mumbo jumbo that sounds totally in theme, "the sap from the prickly pear when mixed with an ounce of crushed turquoise and bathed in the blood of a sidewinder is explosive."  

[Mark Rand]

There is also the 4E book Western Hero.

[LoneWolf]

Creating an incredibly knowledgeable character in the Hero System is dirt cheap.  For 21 point I can have a character with an 18 INT and 5 13 or less background skills (science or knowledge skills). That also gives me a 13 or less perceptions roll.  Any INT skill I purchase also starts at 13 or less.  Since you already paid for the skill enhancer each additional background skill only costs you 2 points. Almost all characters except NPC’s seem to end up buying up their INT to 13, which means you are only paying 18 more points.  Paying 18 points for +1 to all INT based skills (including perception) and getting a small VPP is too good to pass up.  If the skills alone get you the ability to do this any intelligent player is likely to do this.  Now the game has turned into scientists and scholars instead of western champions.

 

This post is also in the Champions forum.  In a Champions game the character purchases all their abilities.  If the gunslinger has to purchase his six shooters, the schoolteacher should pay for the ability to create useful items.  If this were a heroic game it might be different, but then it should take a significant amount of time to create anything.   
 

Edited April 21, 2023 by LoneWolf

[Doc Democracy]

When I played a western skirmish game the units came in three categories: Peon, Gunfighter and I Protagonisti.

 

A peon would be unlikely to hit an I protagonisti and, if he did, would be unlikely to do too much damage.  That encouraged I Protagonisti to take chances and engage larger groups but to be more wary when facing another in the same class.  Gunfighters were more dangerous as they were unlikely to hit but could do real damage if they did.

 

It was interesting in how it drove contests like the movies.  I remember playing the Gunfight at the OK Corral and, my favourite, playing the Sundance Kid in a scenario of what happened after the movie stopped. 🙂

 

To make this work you would have to do more than mess around with defences and CVs but, given my experience, would probably be worth it.  you want to recreate the scene when the Man with No Name faces down the peons who upset his mule and also when the revenant takes out gunmen one or two at a time in High Plains Drifter.

 

Doc

[steriaca]

I would give her a low cost VVP, Only Changable Between Adventures. I would allow her not to define it till she decides to use it the first time in an adventure.

[LoneWolf]

Then every character will have knowledge and science skills.  What about a character with Inventor or mechanics?  Do they also get a VPP?  How about a character with lots of social skills do they get minor mental powers?  Does buying paramedics give you healing?  Does animal handler give you mind control vs animals? 

 

Background skill cost less than other skill because they are not supposed to have a large effect on the game.  Doing this makes them more valuable than full skills.  A small VPP is not really that expensive and can easily be afforded by a champion’s character.   I can see allowing the character to create items once in a while, but if it is something they do regularly they should pay points for it.  A 20-point VPP with the limitations only changes between adventures (-1) and OAF cost 13 points. 

 

Characters should get what they pay for, but they should also pay for what they get. 

[Grow-Arm-Hair Lad]

I played a lot of Boot Hill in the Eighties. And a lot of Champions. My group switched back and forth between these two games before Champions won out.

At that time, it would never have occurred to me to combine the two.

 

To be successful, I think you'd have to be very careful how you run this. I would handle the powers very, very carefully. A rule like "only 25 points for powers or abilities beyond normal human." 

 

I remember reading Rawhide Kid and Kid Colt and Cheyenne Kid. The stories didn't have supernatural elements for the most part. I was well-versed in these comics before I tackled Boot Hill, and that was the reason the games were successful: I got it. I watched a lot of westerns but the comics really were the sources I went back to when I was running Boot Hill.

 

It's been mentioned already but when the heroes outpower the opponents, it eventually ruins the game. The idea of swarms of opponents--maybe a cavalry outpost, all the soldiers possessed--that energy runs out and wears thin. If the PC's are very close to the level of the opponents, or even inferior in power, it's better. Like, you could have a bartender (the PC) who is good with a scattergun (who isn't?) but he's no sharpshooter, he's not that fast. The opponent could be a Billy The Kid type. Billy has no superpowers, but he seems inhumanly fast, very accurate, supremely confident (Presence). But your bartender PC might have one power that puts him just about on par with Billy, say, maybe the bartender has a very minor Magneto power, a VPP based on metal control. Up to 10 Active points. You could do a lot with that, maybe throw up a force field "only vs metal" which is fine for bullets.

 

How much is 10 points of this VPP going to help you versus Billy the Kid? Well, the bullet might still hit you but maybe most of the Body is blocked and you don't get knocked out because of the Stun you absorbed with your Force Field. Billy is positive he hit you square on, now he's a little shaken, and you're set up for your blast from your scattergun, or maybe you draw your revolver and use your VPP to make the bullet swerve to find its target.

 

Maybe the bartender got his start in a traveling freak show, he could bend spoons at a distance. Met a woman in one of the towns and settled, told everyone it was all parlor tricks and mirrors.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Grow-Arm-Hair Lad

[steriaca]

6 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Then every character will have knowledge and science skills.  What about a character with Inventor or mechanics?  Do they also get a VPP?  How about a character with lots of social skills do they get minor mental powers?  Does buying paramedics give you healing?  Does animal handler give you mind control vs animals? 

Only if you pay points for it. The special effect of powers can be just as easily be, "I was taught how to...".

6 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

Characters should get what they pay for, but they should also pay for what they get. 

Agreed. If a player can justify it and it fits the character concept, then yes they can buy a 20 point VVP (actually a 30 point VVP before Power Advantages and Power Limitations affect it). Try not to abuse it too much folks.

[DentArthurDent]

Western Hero: Rough and Ready Roleplaying by Christopher R. Taylor is THE starting point. 

Personally, I prefer the latest edition. It is jam-packed with material. Plenty of Campaign guidelines. Even a “Ground Rules” sheet!

 

Then my personal favorite is Wild West from FGU. It is dated, in tone and rules and layout, but I still love it. I especially like the guidelines for horses (which are also well-covered in Western Hero).

 

Deadlands has dozens of really cheap adventures available. I like the “Dime Novels” but I have run into some serious formatting issues with the electronic versions.

 

[DShomshak]

I'm told there was a "Cowboys are Witches" thread on RPGNet. I found a blogger who quoted it, or at least the start. It might be a point of inspiration for a more "Weird West" sort of hybrid campaign.

 

https://foxymoley.tumblr.com/post/187106488148/cowboys-are-witches-and-horses-are-their

 

Dean Shomshak

[Mark Rand]

Michelle Anne Adams, M.D., is the town physician.  She’s a normal-looking dark-haired woman who accidentally touched an odd globe in her father’s medical office.  It downloaded quite a bit of medical information into her brain.  She has even studied with the local tribe’s medicine man, has been on vision quests, and has her own medicine bundle.  Through the medicine man, she has become bonded with Tabitha, a female mountain lion.  For transportation, she uses a horse-drawn trap, but can ride her horse, too.

[Khymeria]

6 hours ago, Mark Rand said:

Through the medicine man, she has become bonded with Tabitha, a female mountain lion. 

 

I keep coming back to this sort of thing. A companion animal is a really good thing to complete a PC for this style of campaign. The super smart, fast, tough horse is obvious, Hi-Ho Silver and all that. The mountain lion, wolf, or coyote are also pretty easy to imagine choices. A hawk or eagle could also be an option for a PC and still keep an old west feel. I mean there is nothing keeping someone from a character with a more exotic animal like an orangutan or tiger, but it could come with a series of problems. "You can't bring that thing in the saloon."

[Mark Rand]

While Dr. Michelle is an NPC, she could get kidnapped by bandits wanting to have bullets removed from a friend.  Of course, with her knowledge of science, she could have chemicals to make a primitive tear gas-like compound hidden in her medical bag.  And, of course, she has a mind-link with Tabitha.

 

Here's one more.  Miss Hannah Russell, a former soiled dove, owns and runs the town’s saloon.  Among her employees are Sam, the bartender, and Myra, a soiled dove and the love of the local hapless telegrapher’s life.  She keeps a shotgun under the bar and has at least one derringer hidden on her person.  Unknown to everyone, she’s a local agent for a temporal enforcement agency.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Mark Rand
added something

[LoneWolf]

There are lots of circus stereotypes that could make decent characters.  The strongman who actually has low end superhuman strength, the hypnotist with some mental powers, the stage magician, and acrobat immediately come to mind.

 

Early American folk hero would also be a good fit for this type of campaign.  Things like Davy Crockett, Paul Bunyan, Pecos Bill and John Henry could serve as inspiration.  
 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Quote

 

Early American folk hero would also be a good fit for this type of campaign.  Things like Davy Crockett, Paul Bunyan, Pecos Bill and John Henry could serve as inspiration.  

 

Yeah its worth looking at the Larger Than Life book Surbrook put out for this time period and adventures in fable America.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Christopher R Taylor

[Mark Rand]

22 hours ago, Mark Rand said:

Here's one more.  Miss Hannah Russell, a former soiled dove, owns and runs the town’s saloon.  Among her employees are Sam, the bartender, and Myra, a soiled dove and the love of the local hapless telegrapher’s life.  She keeps a shotgun under the bar and has at least one derringer hidden on her person.  Unknown to everyone, she’s a local agent for a temporal enforcement agency.

Miss Hannah is the local station keeper/agent for The Time Patrol (from the Poul Anderson stories).  She has a few hidden pieces of technology, including energy weapons, a communicator, and a time cycle.  Her horse is patrol-trained and her faithful dog, Sugar, isn't a dog...she just looks like one.

[steriaca]

5 hours ago, Mark Rand said:

Miss Hannah is the local station keeper/agent for The Time Patrol (from the Poul Anderson stories).  She has a few hidden pieces of technology, including energy weapons, a communicator, and a time cycle.  Her horse is patrol-trained and her faithful dog, Sugar, isn't a dog...she just looks like one.

Affirmative.

[DentArthurDent]

On 4/23/2023 at 11:49 AM, Christopher R Taylor said:

Yeah it’s worth looking at the Larger Than Life book Surbrook put out for this time period and adventures in fable America.

Sadly, it is listed as “Out of Stock” on the Hero site. An out of stock pdf? This is the matrix.

 

However, it is available on DriveThruRPG.

And there is a Savage Worlds version?

Edited April 25, 2023 by DentArthurDent