THE APOCALYPSE!!!!

[Christopher R Taylor]

See, that kind of thing makes for a fresh take, or at least an unexpected take on disaster.  You could do Ragnarok too, or a war between Greek gods, same kind of "not zombies again" approach.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Christopher R Taylor

[Tech]

Well a lack of bacon does strange things to people; no telling how people will survive without or society.

[Scott Ruggels]

At what degree?  A Nuclear Exchange wopuld cause a lot of problems, maybe up to extinction. But a Civil War would depopulate the large cities, but leave the countryside mostly intact. Governments would be severely weakened, much as Duke's scenario does. but travel would be hampered, Distrubution would be expensive or non existant. Local governments would be either the province of strong men, or strong ideologies, or hopefuly strong institutions/oprinciples.  A lot of Mend and Make Do. 

[Asperion]

While far-fetched,  this is a possible way for things to go -

 

 

The first 2/3 is important for groundwork,  but the last segment is the important part. 

[Christopher R Taylor]

Volcanoes are the most destructive terrestrial natural disaster imaginable.  They include multiple other disasters as a package deal, AND have their own destruction.  Krakatoa blotted out the sky so badly with debris that there wasn't really summer in the northern hemisphere for a year.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Christopher R Taylor

[Lord Liaden]

 

[Lawnmower Boy]

 

I offer 100 quatloos to the sapient who can figure out what I did with my copy of Post-Apocalyptic Hero. 

 

There's a reason, or, rather, two reasons that fantasy roleplay continues to dominate the market. Medieval stasis and dungeon crawls give gamers something to do. Oh, wait, no, and levels. They're a good mechanic for minimising the magic user problem that ultimately derails campaigns in the unlikely event that the go on long enough that the MU gains a campaign-breaking spell (Flight, not Wish.) Other campaign settings lack this. Apocalyptic/Post-Apocalyptic is actually a fairly strong contender against FRP in that the first few sessions are going to be a blast as you run away from the apocalypse, but then the campaign reaches an impasse. Either the players reach shelter and begin to think about the next step --or they do that and then get cut off by the knees by the GM so that they have to flee the lava/zombies/bad software again. The first makes planting potatoes the next adventure path, the second is not a solution to the first.

 

Hey! At least it's not a science fiction game, where you do all the work of setting up the characters and can't think of anything to do with them other than explore a space dungeon. Anyway, all of this is boring old news,  and the best post-apocalyptic game is still Gamma World because it does the best job of hauling over the FRP elements and giving them a fresh coat of paint, and in retrospect releasing Gamma World,  Gamma Warriors and Gammarauders together as a box set in 1980 would have been a boss move.  Again, boring old news.

 

So what am  I doing here? Boosting Graydon Saunders' Commonweal books (self-published, available through Google Books, yes, I know, even so). They read like someone has taken their Toronto-area Gamma World setting back through an FRP filter and then turned it into a top-tier anti-Tolkien comment. (Socialist, not awful, like The Aspect-Emperor.) Now that's a post-apocalyptic setting with possibilities. I think. 

[GDShore]

Back to the solar flare emp for a moment. yes there is shielding on the things that governments think important, but not much in the non-political/non-military world is. An example, a single transformer the type that steps down the power transmitted over the (along) the giant towers takes six months to build, a crew of about 2000 and a modern factory to build it in. The political's and military might survive for a while, they are nuclear hardened but a Carrington or stronger level of event might blow through those protections too.

(By the way what is a quatloo and how does it compare to most coinage.

[GDShore]

I have been using the apocalypse type story line to find out how players I haven't run before interact. I start out with a growing ZOMBIE plague. I start with a plague starting  in a major city and spreading fast, and will likely reach the town that you are living in about three weeks from now. Give or take a day or two. You play you, you have the resources available to you and the skills and talents you possess. It is more a thought experiment than a campaign, your companions determine your characteristics (which can sometimes be a bit cruel, think comeliness) Then we run a session or two, [allows me to see how they work together, who rises to leader, who gives out ideas] The last group didn't last very long, they wasted most of their three weeks arguing about which weapons were best to kill zombies with, they never came up with a bug out plan, a safe destination, food, water, clothes or anything like that. I blocked in a 4 hour period of time for the first game session, there were 3 of them and the last fell at 37 minutes in. Now this might seem gladiatorial, and it was but the longest lasting group went 3 weeks 12 hours a week, did not lose anyone and ended when they expressed a desire to play the real campaign. You see in any real apocalypse the game soon becomes a grind of commit action, survive action, rinse repeat, rinse repeat, ect. ect. ect. . The Fantasy campaign went on to last eight years, 8 glorious years and ended when a majority of them had to leave because there mundane lives had dramatically changed. This kind of campaign can work, for short period of time a month or two at most, because in a real one,, 90% of the world is going to die around you and most of us are not equipped to survive it, not even the survivalists. 

[GDShore]

Actually my long running group did about a year and some at 4 hours a week then went to a couple months of intense gaming where I pulled out all the stops and tried to kill them all and failed. 

[Lord Liaden]

6 hours ago, GDShore said:

 

(By the way what is a quatloo and how does it compare to most coinage.

 

A "quatloo" is a detail from an episode of the original Star Trek series, "Gamesters of Triskelion." Three immortal ultra-advanced aliens (basically brains in jars) kept humanoid slaves on their planet as gladiators for their amusement. The humanoids were bred to fight, but others were kidnapped from time to time and taken to the planet to improve the "stock." The Gamesters would wager on the outcome of particular fights, with the bets measured in quatloos.

 

Aside from as a means to keep score, we never see any other use for quatloos, or are told whether they have any intrinsic value or even physical existence. But "betting quatloos" has been a meme in geek culture for a long time.

Edited December 24, 2023 by Lord Liaden

[Rich McGee]

19 minutes ago, Lord Liaden said:

Aside from as a means to keep score, we never see any other use for quatloos, or are told whether they have any intrinsic value or even physical existence. But "betting quatloos" has been a meme in geek culture for a long time.

My assumption is that the gamesters were effectively playing for matchsticks, but it's certainly open to debate.

 

For other quatloo trivia, the currency was mentioned regularly in the 1985 newspaper comic Robotman, which was the most successful component of a very cynical multimedia cash grab attempt that tried to make the character another Garfield from scratch.  The overall push failed, and continuing legal issues with marketing Robotman in the face of DC Comics' legal department led to the strip being reformatted multiple times, first to Robotman & Monty, then just Monty, and the Robotman character gradually being phased out of his own comic around 2001 when he returned to the planet Diskelion (ha bloody ha).  The strip has a long history of borrowing from Star Trek that's tailed off since Robotman vanished, although it cribs from many other things.  As Monty the fool thing is inexplicably still in syndication, although I have no idea what papers are still carrying it...or why.

[Asperion]

9 hours ago, GDShore said:

I have been using the apocalypse type story line to find out how players I haven't run before interact. I start out with a growing ZOMBIE plague. I start with a plague starting  in a major city and spreading fast, and will likely reach the town that you are living in about three weeks from now. Give or take a day or two. You play you, you have the resources available to you and the skills and talents you possess. It is more a thought experiment than a campaign, your companions determine your characteristics (which can sometimes be a bit cruel, think comeliness) Then we run a session or two, [allows me to see how they work together, who rises to leader, who gives out ideas] The last group didn't last very long, they wasted most of their three weeks arguing about which weapons were best to kill zombies with, they never came up with a bug out plan, a safe destination, food, water, clothes or anything like that. I blocked in a 4 hour period of time for the first game session, there were 3 of them and the last fell at 37 minutes in. Now this might seem gladiatorial, and it was but the longest lasting group went 3 weeks 12 hours a week, did not lose anyone and ended when they expressed a desire to play the real campaign. You see in any real apocalypse the game soon becomes a grind of commit action, survive action, rinse repeat, rinse repeat, ect. ect. ect. . The Fantasy campaign went on to last eight years, 8 glorious years and ended when a majority of them had to leave because there mundane lives had dramatically changed. This kind of campaign can work, for short period of time a month or two at most, because in a real one,, 90% of the world is going to die around you and most of us are not equipped to survive it, not even the survivalists. 

 

This brings up the issue - you have survived the immediate apocalypse effects. Society is failing, communication unreliable, travel by foot or animal at best. Regardless of the reason, how do you respond?

[GDShore]

Regardless of the nature of the event, if it takes out more than 75% of the population our technology will crash. I do not know how far back, almost certainly though to being dependent on muscle power, (medieval era perhaps a dark age) the survival rate of the "falling" will be horrendous. When it finally stabilizes the population will fall from 8 billion to some thing like 2-3 hundred million world wide, areas like the New England states could drop to as low as 5,000 to 10,000 total. Technology will go into a total crash, knowledge acquisition is dependent on leisure. An example, we have all seen what happens when garbage collectors go on strike, some personally, refuse piles up so fast that it becomes a hazard medically reallll fast. 

Asperion writes "you have survived the immediate apocalypse effects" I fear he is thinking a couple of weeks to a couple of months, uhh uhh, try more like 20 to 30 years before things stabilize, we will descend to tribes, clans or if lucky monarchies and feudal aristocracy. Any persons that are +65 likely have a 2 year life expectancy. (I recently had an experience where I ran out of one of my medications, it was only 10 days but the meds were completely flushed from my system and the last couple of days were an embarrassing and painful experience). So, how do I respond, in my case if I survive the initial event I probably die within two years. If you mean how does society respond, ancient technologies will have to be rediscovered, (I have two young friends who worked for me just before I retired, they are now blacksmiths/bladesmiths, have opened their own smithy,, one of them works in the oil patch and plows most of his wages into the smithy. When back in the world he works the smithy. Both trained in the use of coal forge, but they use a propane forge, faster, cleaner, more regulated heat and just plain easier to use) Having relearned the tech you must also have the resources, without them you slide further back. By the time you begin as a society to recover those who may have had the knowledge probably have expired. Finally travel outside of you tribe, clan, village, feudal group will have become hard, risky and near impossible. As a lark when I graduated high school I decide to hike from Calgary to Edmonton, a journey that in a vehicle would take 3 hours, took a healthy, fit, young man 12 days to accomplish (albeit I stopped in Red Deer for a day and a half) and that was in a friendly well policed polity. A traveler will have to fend for themselves, forage for food, water and shelter, if packing same it is heavy, a liter of water weighs a kilogram (not counting container) and if you do not know the ground you do not know where to find it. When you encounter strangers they are most likely to be unfriendly ranging to down right hostile. They will want to protect their resources so you will need trade goods (more weight) that they will be willing to trade for. (and not just take from you and if lucky turn you into unwilling labour or mayhaps fertilizer) You will probably need more than thirty years before some form of social order establishes above tribe/clan. 

If you are lucky, you will retain some of your technology and be able to maintain it, you will then face the probability of someone wanting to take it from you. A permanent defense force will be needed, with both the benefits and risks therein. Communications will (long range) fail rapidly, modern communication requires power which needs to be produced, then stored or transmitted. Substitutes can be used, drums for instance but drums tell people that you are around, heliograph, smoke and again revelation. Foot travel is slow, travel by animal not much faster though less wearing but forage will take longer and be more work. 

[starblaze]

On 8/9/2023 at 2:17 PM, steriaca said:

My favorite Apocalypse is the WITCH Mansterial Virus. It's a virus which mutates all men, making them unable to create sperm. (The name Mansterial comes from man and sterial)

 

It affects a lot of people, doesn't cause a cataclysmic event, but threatens to make life unlivable in a generation. It doesn't affect women at all, but without men's sperm, how can the next generation be created?

There will be sperm banks to essentially raid for sperm.  However, yeah in the long run I can see a problem.

[GDShore]

I had not heard of WITCH Mansterial Virus, have heard of and read Children of Men where it is the women who are infertile. If your Virus is not curable then even sperm banks will not save them for very long. In CoM a woman regains her fertility with all that that implies, in WITCH thus, the last child born from the sperm banks may live into their 90's but if they do, they will be all alone when yhey pass.

[Stanley Teriaca]

8 hours ago, GDShore said:

I had not heard of WITCH Mansterial Virus, have heard of and read Children of Men where it is the women who are infertile. If your Virus is not curable then even sperm banks will not save them for very long. In CoM a woman regains her fertility with all that that implies, in WITCH thus, the last child born from the sperm banks may live into their 90's but if they do, they will be all alone when yhey pass.

WITCH will have other ways to reproduce, like cloning. And they will make sure the next generation will be all women.

[GDShore]

Umm, maybe, if said apocalypse were to happen today, I hold little hope for successful cloning. As of the now, only two success's in cloning primates has occured, (maccac's Zang Zang and Hua hua) and that only after a 100 failures to achieve same. The technology to achieve cloning is extreme and at this time Expensive  highly risky and dangerous. (genetic defects abound in the successful lower order clones) While I am sure that cloning will be successful in the future (and realitively cheap) it is not so at present  mayhaps in 20, 50 or 100 years but not at the moment. (I will admit that the creation of the "Covid" vacination and it's speed thereof suprised me) I freely admit that if such a virus were to appear and cause a world wide infertility crisis, that the world's medical, biologist's heck all of it's scientist's would focus their energies on finding a vaccine, cure, or "WORK AROUND" (cloning). My worry would be could it be done before soceity broke down. 

   

     For example big cities, actually any city or twon has approximately 3 days of foodstuff's at any given moment, if the transportation network breaks down or is significantly delayed hunger and starvation follow (look at what is happening in Gaza at present). As a university student I worked a summer in a hydro-electric plant, as a janitor, the required technical expertise to keep, maintain the running of the plant is extreme. If things appear hopeless how do you keep people on the job, I suppose you could have the military stand guard over them but who stands thus for the military. People, most of us anyway, will endure ANY HARDSHIP to make things for our children and by extention the next generation but will they if there is no next generation. 

 

     In the witch scenario, each male will know that as soon as he contracts the virus his future is over, no son or daughter to carry his line forward, his line ends with him. At present most transportation systems are manned by males, most power generation systems manned by males and most industries manned by males. What keeps them on the job? What incentive can you offer the overrides the procreative?  why won't they just go fishing or hunting, hiking, swiming or whatever.  Yes some will carry on, duty to the species will compel them but I do not think enough and particularly not in the  critical professions or jobs. 

 

     If this happened today, I do not think we survive it. Why am I so pessimistic, there are so many ways our species can end and we spend our time in petty tribalism. We chose to ignore what is happening around us daily, probably one person cannot change things but a group can. Still we keep electing or choosing idiots as our leaders. I am 70 plus, I have no children (the reasons are manifold, the primary one is that I have a genetic disorder that I am almost guaranteed to pass on, which would mean the near certainty of burying a child before they were 20) and am glad that if an imbeciole takes over, I will not have to endure him/her long. Could we solve the WITCH-COM  issue probably, would we probably not.  

[Stanley Teriaca]

1 hour ago, GDShore said:

     If this happened today, I do not think we survive it. Why am I so pessimistic, there are so many ways our species can end and we spend our time in petty tribalism. We chose to ignore what is happening around us daily, probably one person cannot change things but a group can. Still we keep electing or choosing idiots as our leaders. I am 70 plus, I have no children (the reasons are manifold, the primary one is that I have a genetic disorder that I am almost guaranteed to pass on, which would mean the near certainty of burying a child before they were 20) and am glad that if an imbeciole takes over, I will not have to endure him/her long. Could we solve the WITCH-COM  issue probably, would we probably not.  

I was inspired by the Vertigo series Y, The Last Man, which is a virus which kills 99.9%% of the male population (which only leaves the hero Yorick Brown and his monkey Ampersand). They solved the problem sorta by cloning Yorick. I was also inspired by the fact that it would take place in the Champions Universe and Telous exists, along with whatever genetic scientist WITCH has.

[Lord Liaden]

Hey, if the CU is your setting, not only could Teleios produce clones (his biggest profit-maker), he could make the virus as well. To quote Ryan George: "It's gonna be super easy. Barely an inconvenience." Why he would do it could be a campaign-defining answer.

[Grailknight]

If these viral attacks happened in the real world, we'd be in deep trouble. It would be a race between the collapse of infrastructure and finding and producing a cure. If it kills the men, we lose, if it merely sterilizes them, we have a shot at pulling through. There's still going to be a great loss of life as society goes through upheaval.

 

If it were in the CU, we'd have a much greater chance. Tech is higher, there are organizations with the resources to keep things going, genius scientists to work on the cure a there'll probably be a portion of the population that is just immune.

[Lord Liaden]

For many decades superhero stories focused on them preventing such disasters, preserving life and civilization. But this millennium I've seen an ever-growing trend to depict the heroes as failing, and exploring multiplying variations of our world going to hell. Personally, I believe that's one big factor behind the steep decline in comic-book readership.