Vorsch Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Is Dr D still the son of a dollmaker, cos that the best bit of his 4ed writeup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Agreed.And,John Wyndham to the contrary,I think it's highly unlikely that human civilization would survive the decimation of the world's population.Especially if the false Destroyer's plot had suceeded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by Vorsch or does FH have 2000pt "non-super" mages:D Why not? It has reasonably active deities. It could well have demigods running around. Just because most FH campaigns are run as heroic level games doesn't mean that there are big characters around too. Not entirely coincidentally, I have a copy of the Mythic Greece book from the Campaign Classics series sitting under my desk in my ready reference heap, err, file. Hercules rules! As for the Destroyer: he's an ex-Nazi, he destroyed Detroit, and engineered the Day of the Destroyer events (although the latter probably "didn't happen" in the current CU). So, sod him. On the other hand, he is actually a lesser evil compared to some of the nasties out there! My characters would be prepared to side with him against Mechanon or Takofanes, if the chips were down. There are marginal cases, too: Istvatha V'han might be an example, as might be some of the alien empires that are "out there". A human tyrant might well be easier to depose than an interdimensional or interstellar one. Nasty choices, of course. In any case, though, Destroyer is still and always an evil, even when he is a lesser evil. And for the record, Japan was just trying to do what Britain, France, the Netherlands, Portugal, the US and Australia had already done. The established powers only look morally superior if you forget what they had done to rise to their positions. Japan was merely the new butcher in the slaughterhouse. But this is not an appropriate topic for this particular forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just A Guy Name Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by assault ...But this is not an appropriate topic for this particular forum. That's what I thought, but it looks like the cat doesn't want to get back in the bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest innominatus Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by Lord Liaden [Even though the ersatz Doctor D executed the plan, it was the real Destroyer who devised it and built the equipment, and who seemed to be quite willing to allow it to go through as a diversion of the heroes from his other plans. And there was no hint in DotD that Zerstoiten would have lifted a finger to prevent the slaughter. [/b] Well if you really want to get technical, Liaden, Doctor Destroyer didn't NEED to lift a finger to prevent the slaughter. He already anticipated that the heroes would defeat Richards-as-Destroyer -- that's why there's that videotaped message waiting for the heroes! (See, you're not the only one who's got the module!) As to whether Zerstoiten would have used the killer satellite himself....well, we may never know the truth; though since he seemed to assign great worth to a person's "genetic value", and since it's highly unlikely that the immunity-to-the-satellite gene would be attached to all the other genes Destroyer found desirable, it's doubtful that he would use the satellite to slaughter humanity willy-nilly withoutfirst doing a little more genetic screening.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakboy6117 Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 What would be much more interesting would be to do the exact opposite of destroyer THE ANARCHIST super genius who creates super technology and tries to give it to everyone The stuff is great but it would totally overwhelm modern society especially as it can be easily changed to produce weapons etc. the danger of utopianism is that human nature will always destroy it. (Ok I stole this idea from storm watch but still) Oh you could have fun with that benevolent pacifistic alien arrives on earth traveling the planet in disguise trying to solve earths problems he Arrives in a ghetto puts a star trek style replicator there and leaves think of the ensuing chaos as gangs fight over control of the machine get it to produce alien weaponry and drugs Raises some islands between Japan and China to help with over population and watch the international conflict emerge Put instant transit gates at every major airport and watch the airline industry collapse immigration get swamped. Ooo that sounds like so much fun. All those ethical dilemmas especially if he’s also fixed the ozone layer and the green house gasses, delivered plans for a working fusion rector (of course the fusion weaponry would be bad news and guess what the plans are on the internet and any terrorist could make them) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by Mayday Wha...? Where is this from? I think it's tied to Steve Long's retirement date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by freakboy6117 What would be much more interesting would be to do the exact opposite of destroyer THE ANARCHIST super genius who creates super technology and tries to give it to everyone The stuff is great but it would totally overwhelm modern society especially as it can be easily changed to produce weapons etc. the danger of utopianism is that human nature will always destroy it. (Ok I stole this idea from storm watch but still) I'm not a big fan of "human nature" storylines. Anyway, in the cases you gave the main problem is that the resources created are scarce, and hence able to be monopolised. The fusion example is interesting. There is a gap between the information being available and it being converted into actual physical doohickeys. This gap would tend to favour those who own labs and factories where products making use of it could be developed and produced. Of course, the lack of IP rights would cause a bit of fun for a while, but I'm sure the market would become relatively stable after a few years, with a few big players squeezing out most of the small fry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristopher Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by assault Why not? It has reasonably active deities. It could well have demigods running around. Just because most FH campaigns are run as heroic level games doesn't mean that there are big characters around too. Not entirely coincidentally, I have a copy of the Mythic Greece book from the Campaign Classics series sitting under my desk in my ready reference heap, err, file. Hercules rules! As for the Destroyer: he's an ex-Nazi, he destroyed Detroit, and engineered the Day of the Destroyer events (although the latter probably "didn't happen" in the current CU). So, sod him. On the other hand, he is actually a lesser evil compared to some of the nasties out there! My characters would be prepared to side with him against Mechanon or Takofanes, if the chips were down. There are marginal cases, too: Istvatha V'han might be an example, as might be some of the alien empires that are "out there". A human tyrant might well be easier to depose than an interdimensional or interstellar one. Nasty choices, of course. In any case, though, Destroyer is still and always an evil, even when he is a lesser evil. And for the record, Japan was just trying to do what Britain, France, the Netherlands, Portugal, the US and Australia had already done. The established powers only look morally superior if you forget what they had done to rise to their positions. Japan was merely the new butcher in the slaughterhouse. But this is not an appropriate topic for this particular forum. Given the choice between Istvatha V'han and Dr Destroyer, I'd choose V'han in a heartbeat. (As for Japan, please note that this was a time when the old colonial powers were starting to get out of the business, and their worst offenses were largely decades or more in the past. Japan was also engaged in activities that might have made Kind Leopold blanch.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southern Cross Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 So would I....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just A Guy Name Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 I'd choose...neither! I'll fight to my last breath...{blah,blah,blah} Then Tyrannon moves in, and.. BANG! There goes the neighbourhood:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 I think I really like the idea of a genius who wants to improve the world but keeps causing more problems than he fixes. That I can use. On the other hand, I love having a Dr. Destroyer out there. It keeps my players worried (and fear is a wonderful thing; after more than a decade away from D&D, I'd forgotten what it meant to know each encounter could be not just your last, but the last for every member of the party). So Dr. Destroyer is never going to be that benevolent genius. A space alien, Beyonder, cosmic herald, time traveler, or even Foxbat after a bump on the head, but not Dr. Destroyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highwayman Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Have to admit, this is providing some good source material for megalomaniac ranting. Reading this thread, I thought of this argument: “Destroyer? Yes, they do call me that, and it does fit. But remember, the warrior tribes that overthrew the Roman Empire were also called ‘destroyers,’ yet we owe everything to them. Imagine, if you will, a world where the corruption and stagnation of last years of Rome had been allowed to continue indefinitely. Not a pretty picture, is it? But, of course, I am no mere barbarian. Imagine if those tribes had one leader, a man of transcendent genius capable to building a new, better order on the ruins of the old. Look what Western civilization has accomplished since then, and imagine what it could have accomplished without a thousand-year struggle with chaos and ignorance. Now imagine that, happening now. That is what I offer.†“You may join me in creating this brave new world, or go the way of the Romans. The choice is yours.†Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just A Guy Name Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Originally posted by Highwayman “You may join me in creating this brave new world, or go the way of the Romans. The choice is yours.†"Yeah, yeah..Tell it to yer publisher..They're always on the lookout fer the next great novel", as Ben rocks Destroyer backwards with a mighty blow, while Reed quips "Another Dystopian work? I'd expect more from you, Albert.." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FenrisUlf Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 I imagine that a world where the good Doctor managed to attain all his personal goals would indeed offer safety and security -- no freedom whatsoever (and probably not a whole lot of individuality) but safety and freedom. And seeing as how most people would rather be content than have to make difficult decisions, it would probably be very pleasant for those people. It's those who don't want oe be sheep in the pen who'd be dismayed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrooveD70 Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 How about... The Case for George W.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Gray Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Actually, has anyone seen the comic book Empire? It's about an aroured supervillain who does take over the world. It can give some good ideas about what a world under Dr. Destroyer might be like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Re: How about... Originally posted by GrooveD70 The Case for George W.... Hey! 5 XP penalty for using blatant NGD tactics! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nexus Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Re: Re: How about... Originally posted by lemming Hey! 5 XP penalty for using blatant NGD tactics! NGD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Re:^3 How about... Originally posted by nexus NGD? The wild, bleating, and unsafe for minor's Non-Gaming Discussion Forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrooveD70 Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Re: Re: How about... Originally posted by lemming Hey! 5 XP penalty for using blatant NGD tactics! DOH! :p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Megalomania and Dictators... all Megalomaniacs assume they are creating a 'better' world under their rule, that's part of the definition. Here's a snapshot of a few true, and partially successful, Megalomaniacs in history: Alexander the Great. very benevolent to Macedonia (well, he wasn't really ever there) but the Turks, Persians, Arabians, Greeks, Egyptians, Cretians and a handful of other civilizations hardly saw him as benevolent, even though he did little to interfere in daily lives, you know, beyond mercilessly conquering every square inch of Asia Minor and renaming everything from a hut to a metropolis "Alexandria". Adolf Hitler Not only was he voted into power, but he brought Germany out of the Great Depression - making them the first country to do so. His platform when running for office? basically that Democracy was bad and the cause of Germanies post WW1 hardships. He then went psycho on us and starting killing millions of people in order to Rule The World. Ghengis Kahn, Kublai Kahn, Attilla the Hun Well, not sure if they were just bored or not, but the Mongols are one of the few people to conquer all of Russia - twice. Megalomania is a scary little trait, never trust someone who wants to Rule The World .. chances are they really don't want to put in the work to actually be effective - they just like the idea of being The Man In Charge. You can make all the cases you'd like for the Dr. Destroyer personality types you want but in the end they tend to be charismatic manipulators who care only about their own status as perceived by others (or how they think others should/do perceive them). [i've prbably just opened up a big 'ole can of worms somewhere .. ah well. I read to many history books I think.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheImperialKhan Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Mayday He chose the name DESTROYER. Maybe he was reading too many Batman comics, but I doubt it. Actually Destroyer is the literal translation of Zerstoiten. He, like Victor Von Doom, just uses his own name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by TheImperialKhan Actually Destroyer is the literal translation of Zerstoiten. He, like Victor Von Doom, just uses his own name. I've seen this assumption perpetuated repeatedly over the years - it's now in the official writeup from Conquerors, Killers and Crooks, but it's an error. "Destroyer" in German is Zerstorer (with two little dots over the "o"). I've always played it that the similarity of Zerstoiten's name to that word led to the nickname, but it's not a literal translation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Serpent Posted February 19, 2004 Report Share Posted February 19, 2004 Originally posted by Lord Liaden I've seen this assumption perpetuated repeatedly over the years - it's now in the official writeup from Conquerors, Killers and Crooks, but it's an error. "Destroyer" in German is Zerstorer (with two little dots over the "o"). I've always played it that the similarity of Zerstoiten's name to that word led to the nickname, but it's not a literal translation. Ah, but in the German language of the CU , Zerstoiten does translate as Destroyer, specifically as a local term used in the Ruhr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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