Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

[allen]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Hey guys.. yeah, I've been lurking on this thread. Thanks for all the great ideas and keep them coming. I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on one thing in particular...

 

Some notes on high schools may also not be out of line here either. Especially on the sociology of high schools. A lot of a Teen Champions campaign may be set at a school, and it's useful to go over what these things were like. Our memories are not always accurate on these things.

 

This is something that definitely needs to be addressed, and I was kind of wondering about a few things.

 

(1) There'll be some box text about international "high schools," but it's going to be brief... mainly just some quick background in case a player wants to play an exchange student or a GM wants to send the PCs abroad as exchange students, etc.

 

My question is are people honestly curious about this sort of stuff? Or, at least, are you curious enough to see it take up more than a page or so of the book?

 

(2) The demographics for the HERO System, at least as far as I can tell from the forums, is pretty much late twenties to mid/late thirties. Which means a lot of us have been out of high school for a while. I haven't dived into any research or anything yet, but it seems high schools have changed a bit since I graduated (Class of '91).

 

For instance, at my parent's church last weekend, a woman spoke briefly about the new rules concerning bullying, and my impression was the definition of bullying was expanded quite a bit and included stuff like verbal abuse, which when I was in high school wouldn't have warranted any sort of punishment... kids will be kids and all that jazz. Now this whole bullying thing could have a pretty pervasive impact on a game -- I mean, nowadays it sounds like Flash Thompson would be in detention everytime he passed Peter Parker in the hall.

 

So do folks want a sort of primer on high schools circa 2004? Or would they rather a description of high school more familar to likely players, like say something circa late eighties or nineties? Or a sort of cinematic combination of the two, setting details that don't delve into the nitty-gritty of real-world high schools? All of the above.

 

(My own thoughts are to focus mainly on a more cinematic sort of high school with notes given about real-world high school circa 2004 in sidebars and the like.)

 

Some other comments....

 

There'll be something about sidekicks, and I guarantee the MS I submit to Steve will have at least one write-up of a 5th edition Champion's sidekick (as to who, you'll have to wait and see... will it be Ducky, dark fowl of the night? Tin Can, Ironclad's gladitorial water boy, come to Earth to follow in his idol's footsteps?... ). As for how much coverage sidekicks get, I need to check with Steve and Darren about how much concerning sidekicks will be included in either Golden Age and Silver Age Champions. A part of me says it belongs there as much as it does in Teen Champions, so we'll see...

 

The other types will be covered as well, including legacy heroes and villains(hoping to get one of those write-ups in there too) and Billy Batson types.

 

There'll be write-ups of students at the Ravenswood Academy kids and members of Nova, as well as some other heroes. There'll be a write-up and map of the Ravenswood Academy -- staff members, curriculum, etc. Hopefully a write-up and map of a public high school in Millennium City too. Write-ups of villains (of course).

[Chuckg]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

I'd suggest the majority of the focus on 80's and 90's comicbook-style high schools -- after all, it's a comic-book RPG.

 

With a sidebar or two on 'realistic high schools, for your Dark Teen Champions games'.

[Hermit]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

I'd suggest the majority of the focus on 80's and 90's comicbook-style high schools -- after all, it's a comic-book RPG.

 

With a sidebar or two on 'realistic high schools, for your Dark Teen Champions games'.

 

My suggestion would be similar... only, I might term it more as ages.

A silver age high school setting would be a bit more sterotypical and simpler, where as an iron age setting would probably be more complex.

 

In a silver age setting, Billy ends up getting shoved into a locker.

In an Iron age setting, Billy is caught drawing the decapitation of a hated teacher, and may be suspended for it.

 

Also, I suspect that the changes in highschools vary a lot depending on what region of the country you're in. Some areas are clamping down on bullies and such, in others, if some of the rumors I hear are true, such things go not so merily on.

[allen]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

My suggestion would be similar... only, I might term it more as ages.

A silver age high school setting would be a bit more sterotypical and simpler, where as an iron age setting would probably be more complex.

 

Hey, that's a good way of organizing the information... Great idea. Thanks!

[Hermit]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Hey' date=' that's a good way of organizing the information... Great idea. Thanks![/quote']

 

You're welcome

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

I'd just go into a few paragraphs on basically how schools tend to break kids down into categories, social cliques of various sorts and how these different groups often play cruel social games with one another. Popular kids especially like to assert their dominance as alphas by doing nasty things to kids of lower social rank than them. Guys and girls tend to take down others in slightly different ways.

 

This is not a trivial point to overlook in teen superhero games. A teen superhero with powers may suddenly find themselves being the target of a character assassination game. Or another kid goes ballistic after being stuffed into too many lockers or taking too much verbal abuse of the wrong sort.

 

In the very first episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy is quizzed by Cordelia as to her suitability to be in the social elite of the school. When Buffy talks to Willow, Willow is stunned that Buffy who was talking to the popular kids is talking to her. And of course Buffy ends up with the loser clique because she chooses to hang out with types like Willow and Zander. A lot of the plots end up revolving around the interaction of the supernatural with the high school social scene. The first three seasons of Buffy should give a wealth of source material here.

 

A group of superhero kids with officially normal identities at a school are likely to end up being the "weirdo" clique fairly early on, which means that they're going to be shunned or picked on by most of the other social cliques trying to establish themselves as higher on the pecking order. If they're outed as supers, they're going to be even more shunned for being weird and different (not to mention dangerous to be near).

 

At a superhero school, I have no idea of how the social cliques are going to form. I can see two possible layers of breakdown, one is by power level and the other one is by power type. The fact is that the most powerful students at the school are going to get a certain rank due to raw power and are more likely to consider other powerful kids as their true peers.

 

The other way it can go is by power type. Telepaths will feel more in common with other telepaths. Bricks, even bricks of different power level will look down on non-bricks as these fragile weak types, Flyers will look down on their grounded classmates (figuratively as well as literally) and so on.

 

Teachers at the school are likely to be very powerful and very skilled as well. These are teachers that are going to have to be prepared to use physical force against their students if they use their powers out of line. And I expect that a lot of the normal rules against the use of force by teachers against students will have to be waived in these cases because these students are all essentially armed and dangerous.

 

And yes, this is all pretty much Iron Age schools. But I figure that a lot of the Teen Champion players are going to have watched Buffy and Smallville and they're going to want something to help them recreate that sort of game.

[assault]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

(1) There'll be some box text about international "high schools," but it's going to be brief... mainly just some quick background in case a player wants to play an exchange student or a GM wants to send the PCs abroad as exchange students, etc.

 

My question is are people honestly curious about this sort of stuff? Or, at least, are you curious enough to see it take up more than a page or so of the book?

 

Well, actually, I would need quite a bit of detail on US high schools if I wanted to make maximum use of Teen Champions. I _went_ to an international high school.

 

So, how do US schools work? When are their terms (semesters, or whatever)? When are their holidays? When does the school year start? What kind of schools are there?

 

You get the gist. Yes, I guess that would suggest that similar information for a bunch of other countries' systems might be nice.

 

So do folks want a sort of primer on high schools circa 2004? Or would they rather a description of high school more familar to likely players, like say something circa late eighties or nineties? Or a sort of cinematic combination of the two, setting details that don't delve into the nitty-gritty of real-world high schools? All of the above.

 

It's been a while, but my experience of high school had very little in common with the "TV Californian" system. The status games weren't anywhere near as intense. The various cliques tended to run parallel to each other, often having little or no contact. Everyone wore school uniform, so there wasn't much room for fashion wars.

 

Of course, I was the kid of a teacher, and one of my best friends was the son of the principal, so it's perhaps not surprising that I didn't see a great deal of bullying.

[levi]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

...A group of superhero kids with officially normal identities at a school are likely to end up being the "weirdo" clique fairly early on' date=' which means that they're going to be shunned or picked on by most of the other social cliques trying to establish themselves as higher on the pecking order. If they're outed as supers, they're going to be even more shunned for being weird and different (not to mention dangerous to be near).[/quote']

 

I don't think this would be true for all SuperTeens. When Beast came to the X-Men (way back in the sixties - before I was born - Class of '90) he was a BMoC; Captain of all the sports teams and class valedictorian due to his heightened strength, speed, agility and brains. He suffered some over his huge feet, but was not overtly ape-like the way he is depicted now. Terry from Batman Beyond is another example of an Alpha clique SuperTeen. In X-Men Evolutions Scott excels at non-contact sports (like track) and is definitely considered a Jock/Alpha; Kitty is Miss Popularity and Social Butterfly; Jean is also the Captain of her soccer team as well as class valedictorian.

 

Now once they're outed as Mutant For Hire stated before, all bets are off.

[steriaca]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Hey guys.. yeah, I've been lurking on this thread. Thanks for all the great ideas and keep them coming. I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on one thing in particular...

 

(1) There'll be some box text about international "high schools," but it's going to be brief... mainly just some quick background in case a player wants to play an exchange student or a GM wants to send the PCs abroad as exchange students, etc.

 

 

I might as well chime in on how schools are done in Japan (since I am a Japanifile...and keep your mind out of the gutter folkes...it is not what you think).

 

1) Evey student goes to homeroom, and stays there till class ends. The teachers rotate, going to classroom to classroom. The only exception is Gym (and in some schools, Lunch...most of the time kids have lunch in the room also).

 

2) Most of the time, it is considered agenst school polocy for a student to have a job (thay can get special permition to have a job, but thoes are rairly given). It is also considered agenst school policy to go on dates (as thay are considered distractions to school work).

 

3) Eveyone wears school uniforms, except for the teachers. By the way, you can tell the bad kids from the good kids by the slight alterations to the uniform (skirt hem to high or to low, jacket kem line to low, ect...).

 

4) This is also important...in Japan, High School is Not Mandatorie. This means you don't have to go to school, or even bother appling for school if you do not want to. Of course, most teens do go to High School. It is the most susesful volentarie higher education program on Earth.

 

5) Entrance exams: Evey school past grade school has them. (There is a joke charater in the manga Yu And Mei of a guy strugling to pass the exames to get into...Grade School, but that is a joke). And thay are hard. There are even special schools where you can go to prepair yourself for theas exames.

 

6) Years: Jr. High is only three years, and High School rainges from 3 to 5 years (depending on the school).

 

Well, that is all I know...for now.

[steriaca]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

That reminds me...I would hate to think what the Colimbine teens could do if thay could shoot lazer beams from there eyes...

[Intrope]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

That reminds me...I would hate to think what the Colimbine teens could do if thay could shoot lazer beams from there eyes...

That's probably scarier than you know: if they'd known how to wire a working detonators they'd probably have killed 100s in the real world. Including a lot of the rescue workers [one of their bombs was on a timer in a car in the parking lot].

 

On less distrubing topics: I agree that a quick run-down of how different global school systems would be a good idea--but I'd note that for most people it's likely that they'd play in the school system of the country they live in, and so it should probably be more of a starting point (perhaps a sidebar linking to appropriate web pages for different country's school systems? just a thought).

 

Along that lines, alternate educational setups should probably be mentioned at least. I'd think that if my child were seriously *different* from other people, I might want to homeschool them (or find a private school, or some such). Noting whether such things are possible in different countries might be useful information, too.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Teen Champions and Anime?

 

Well we're talking about teenagers with powers and abiliites beyond those of mortal men' date=' yes? Anime is full of such characters.[/quote']

 

Oh dear sweet mother of the kiwi no ... no Big Eyes Small HERO. Please.

 

Back on topic ... I'm hoping Teen Champs will show us good ways to do Lack of Control power constructs. Activation rolls are good, but things like inability to shut off a power easily, or a power that goes off accidentally, are a little harder to do.

[JmOz]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

The 200 point figure comes from Champions Universe. It gives this as a suggestion for a Ravenswood Academy game.

 

Of course there's no reason why you can't build Teen Champions characters on any point total you care to mention. After all, it worked for Superboy.

 

Still, I personally like the lower totals. They make character building more of a challenge. But that's a general prejudice of mine.

 

Finally, on those occasions when I'm designing characters just for fun, I like to follow published guidelines, simply because they represent "impartial rules".

 

But that's just one of the minor games you can play with the Hero System.

 

Thanks, I had forgotten that (I will need to confirm for my OCD). I think of Ravensword as the New mutants type setting, where the first thing that comes to my mind for a "Teen" game is Titans, so I do think that the best for standard is 250 (It seems right for the early titans to me, has a line already, easy,etc...)

[Mutant for Hire]

Re: Teen Champions and Anime?

 

Oh dear sweet mother of the kiwi no ... no Big Eyes Small HERO. Please.

A lot of people are fans of anime. Not that this book is necessarily going to go into that in any detail, but I do expect the genres to be covered.

[levi]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

...the first thing that comes to my mind for a "Teen" game is Titans' date=' so I do think that the best for standard is 250 (It seems right for the early titans to me, has a line already, easy,etc...)[/quote']

 

I am currently running a 250 pt Champions game where the heroes were built with 50 AP limits, 12-20 DEF, no Skill Levels to start and no Skills bought at more than the starting level. There are only three players, but they manage to bring down 350 point villains (plus a couple of thugs/agents) in short order (leaving more time for RPing or maybe a second fight in the same game session - something we never see in higher point campaigns)

[JmOz]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

I am currently running a 250 pt Champions game where the heroes were built with 50 AP limits' date=' 12-20 DEF, no Skill Levels to start and no Skills bought at more than the starting level. There are only three players, but they manage to bring down 350 point villains (plus a couple of thugs/agents) in short order (leaving more time for RPing or maybe a second fight in the same game session - something we never see in higher point campaigns)[/quote']

 

 

Interesting:

 

I do think the no Skill level limit is a little harsh, I would probably re-write it to no skill levels using powers (thus permiting MA's types to use them)

 

Defence also seems on the low side, I would probably increase it to 25

[levi]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

Interesting:

 

I do think the no Skill level limit is a little harsh, I would probably re-write it to no skill levels using powers (thus permiting MA's types to use them)

 

Defence also seems on the low side, I would probably increase it to 25

 

I was aprehensive about the Skill Level ban at first too, but the player of the Team brick has expressed how much cooler he thinks it is that his character has progressed through Skill Levels (first buying +1 CSL with Punch; then expanding it to Punch, Grab & Haymaker; and now saving the 2 points to increase to +1 HTH CSL). Ordinarily he would have just built the character with at least two HTH CSLs and he feels like the character is really growing in a natural way because of the restriction.

 

Also once they were recruited to the Superteam, they were each given Bulletproof Spandex Uniforms (6 DEF Armor) by the team benefactor (something I had planned before giving them the Character creation guidelines) so the Defense observation is well taken.

[JmOz]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

My biggest concern has to do with the Weapon masters & Martial artists, who in my opinion often have there skill levels be there main ability, maybe just allow them to have them instead? I don't know...But I can see your point about the character growth

[BlackSword]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

One good thing about Teen Champs is that few adventures will start with, "You're all in a tavern."

 

However one thing that might be mentioned is how to bring together teens that may be in different cliques. The gadgeteer-in-training has to tutor another character in physics. Characters are childhood friends from elementary school, etc.

 

Like assault, my high school was not nearly as dramatic as Hollywood would have one to believe, but then again it would be pretty boring to role play me going through school. There was only one time I think I was bullied, and even that didn't turn into anything. There were definite cliques, but there wasn't an underworld social war going on. So a comparison of the differences between Hollywood High School and Real Life High School would be helpful.

 

Some things that may have been mentioned before, but fun plot seeds or challenges. If its a normal HS and the characters have secret IDs, what happens when something happens on a field trip. VIPER is trying to steal an artifact at the musuem the class happens to be at. The teachers are looking to protect and gather all the students, but the characters are trying to get away so they can stop VIPER. Or if its Super HS, VIPER attacks and suddenly an entire class of teen champs jumps all over the poor VIPER squad that thought this was an easy heist. Do the characters join in the pummeling or try to stop their classmates from causing too much collateral damage.

 

Depending on their secret ID, how students train without letting their parent's know (as happened recently in Robin, when the Drakes talked to the football coach and he said he never heard of Tim). How supers participate in sports (which might be covered this year in Smallville), or why they don't (gee Brett the Brick is 6'4" and 250 lbs, but doesn't participate in gym class because he always seems to have a bum knee).

 

Reed can develop Einstein's equations with a blank sheet of paper, how does he handle sitting in physics class when he know he gets to study with a Super-scientist at night, or worse, needs an English tutor because his writing is abysmal.

[assault]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

One good thing about Teen Champs is that few adventures will start with, "You're all in a tavern."

 

Hmm. I'm not so sure about that.

 

Actually, that raises a couple of points. Different places have different legal ages for drinking, driving, voting and so on.

 

Since, theoretically, Teen Champs covers 18 and 19 year olds, as well as younger teens, issues like these can be relevant.

 

Here's an example: a bunch of 19 year old Australian superteens go into a bar in (some state) in the US. The bartender asks to see their ID, and then says: "sorry, you kids are under 21. According to this state's laws, I can't serve you."

 

Hmm. Maybe this should be made into a "what would your character do?" thread.

[SKJAM!]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

As to power levels, the Venture Institute campaign I'm running is 50+70. It might not seem like a lot, but at least one character has shown the potential for one-punch kills of normals.

[OddHat]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

I did a thread on 100 point supers a year or so ago. They were reasonably powerful compared to normal folks, even without tons of limits. I'll look for it.

 

Here it is.

[Kristopher]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

And this is why I think that advice and examples and plot seeds for different power levels need to be included in the book. Different "teen supers" campaigns and concepts need different point levels.

[Sociotard]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

House rule I like for teens: Mandatory Social limitation: Extracurricular activity (not usually worth any points, but it's great flavor material.) Examples include

After School Job

Sports Team

Academic Club (such as photography, chess, math)

Girlfriend (yes, you can have this and DNPC at the same time. It just means you'll have to spend time with your girl and make her feel special in addition to saving her from the loonies)

 

Organization I'd like to see:

Military is to PRIMUS as Boyscouts is to ____________.

Basically, a national organization with chapters in many cities for gifted youth. mutant scouts, if you will. (and no, the cookies are not made from real mutants)

[Kristopher]

Re: Early "What do you want to see?" for Teen Champions

 

House rule I like for teens: Mandatory Social limitation: Extracurricular activity (not usually worth any points, but it's great flavor material.) Examples include

After School Job

Sports Team

Academic Club (such as photography, chess, math)

Girlfriend (yes, you can have this and DNPC at the same time. It just means you'll have to spend time with your girl and make her feel special in addition to saving her from the loonies)

 

Interesting idea, but not everyone has that kind of thing as a teen. Some people just go home after school.